Character Competitive Impressions

[Gawain]

They cannot easily be standardized. Because the 1111 Miis you're fighting desperately to hold as a compromise are not valid (in the context of actually playing the game itself as a video game in a competitive setting instead of looking at the numerical order on a menu screen) movesets. Which is why everyone who doesn't hide behind menu aesthetic as an excuse would love to standardize better sets for Miis in default.

I don't understand how you can be complaining about Miis not deserving special treatment on one page and then turning around and wondering why they've probable cause for ban the next. It's an all-or-nothing situation. Your ideal, perfect, flawless, well-thought-out and deeply researched "compromise" doesn't work.

The closest comparison to this situation with Mii Fighters I can think of, although it will make me sound like a prick, is any IRL person suffering a handicap. Saying the necessities required to make day-to-day life possible for this person is "special treatment", and then asking "why do they get a special parking spot when I have to walk?" is what this argument sounds like.

I can't believe I have to make this comparison.

Well what if they were any other character in the roster? I'm sure Palutena mains wish they could use different special moves in the default set tournaments too. Doesn't make it any more default for her though. Why should it for Miis?

 

[ZarroTsu]

If they were just another character in the roster, there wouldn't be tournaments banning them, or this argument having started.

However, being the create-your-character characters, perhaps we should follow other fighting games and simply ban them for the same reasons (whatever those are).

Smashcapps is right, however; this discussion is beyond the scope of the topic. TBH I don't even want to discuss it further. Perhaps, simply, there is no answer.

 

[LimitCrown]

They cannot easily be standardized. Because the 1111 Miis you're fighting desperately to hold as a compromise are not valid (in the context of actually playing the game itself as a video game in a competitive setting instead of looking at the numerical order on a menu screen) movesets. Which is why everyone who doesn't hide behind menu aesthetic as an excuse would love to standardize better sets for Miis in default.

I don't understand how you can be complaining about Miis not deserving special treatment on one page and then turning around and wondering why they've probable cause for ban the next. It's an all-or-nothing situation. Your ideal, perfect, flawless, well-thought-out and deeply researched "compromise" doesn't work.

The closest comparison to this situation with Mii Fighters I can think of, although it will make me sound like a prick, is any IRL person suffering a handicap. Saying the necessities required to make day-to-day life possible for this person is "special treatment", and then asking "why do they get a special parking spot when I have to walk?" is what this argument sounds like.

I can't believe I have to make this comparison.

You claim that my argument isn't valid because you use the game allowing the Mii Fighters to use custom moves in most instances in order to claim that they don't have a default or that each of them are separate characters. Conceptually, they are not different from Palutena since she shares the same "gimmick" in regard to custom moves, but that comparison is apparently a slippery slope because there isn't a good counter-argument against it. The rest of you use the behavior of the game in VS. Mode to justify allowing the Mii Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner to be able to use all 12 of their respective custom moves in tournaments that prohibit custom moves and use that as a poor excuse. Let's not mind the fact that every single Mii Fighter when it is created starts with the same moveset, they are forced by the game to use that moveset in one instance, negating the claim that the game doesn't consider them to have a default moveset, and Kirby will always copy their default neutral special move.

I haven't made any contradictions. I said that there isn't any reason for the Mii Fighters to be banned from those types of tournaments because you can easily use a Guest Mii and use their default movesets. I also stated that allowing the Mii Fighters to use all of their custom moves in those tournaments is clearly giving them special treatment. I haven't seen any actual justification of this: only excuses. The Mii Fighters' custom moves being very different from each other isn't even particularly unique, so that shouldn't be a reason to exclude them from the rule.

 

[Kofu]

I just realized something: Villager's Dair is sort of like a RNG pre-Smash 4 Falco Dair... Why is it frame 8?! Why is it so strong?! And why does it basically halve Villager's hurtbox while putting out a hitbox about the size of Villager?!

The sizes of UAir and DAir's hitboxes increase as the number of turnips increase (3 is SUBSTANTIALLY bigger than 1, probably at least double the size as IIRC the turnips are bigger anyway with the higher-number pulls). If they were always 3 his UAir and DAir would almost certainly be the best of their class (UAir would have competition though). Huge, 13% damage, fast, lingering, and low lag with low jump autocancels. Non-meteor 3-turnip DAir can easily kill at 130% or earlier onstage. It's only the RNG that prevents the moves from being broken (but if Smash 4 Minus ever becomes I thing I support consistent 3-pull UAir/DAir).

 

[Ffamran]

The sizes of UAir and DAir's hitboxes increase as the number of turnips increase (3 is SUBSTANTIALLY bigger than 1, probably at least double the size as IIRC the turnips are bigger anyway with the higher-number pulls). If they were always 3 his UAir and DAir would almost certainly he the best of their class (UAir would have competition though). Huge, 13% damage, fast, lingering, and low lag with low jump autocancels. Non-meteor 3-turnip DAir can easily kill at 130% or earlier onstage. It's only the RNG that prevents the moves from being broken (but if Smash 4 Minus ever becomes I thing I support consistent 3-pull UAir/DAir).

Why!? Pre-Smash 4 Falco's frame 5 Dair can't kill onstage that early since it spikes meaning it can be teched and ground bounces aren't as dangerous as stage spikes or outright kills and the only spike I know that kills well is Ganondorf's, but that's balanced by its startup of 16 frames. Regardless of how many turnips, Villager's Dair is strong and meanwhile, Wii Fit Trainer with her 20 frame Dair... I hate all of Villager's aerials. Stupid Fair and Bair have ridiculous knockback (growth?), stupid Uair and Dair disjoints, and stupid gliding Nairs.

 

[Gawain]

Why!? Pre-Smash 4 Falco's frame 5 Dair can't kill onstage that early since it spikes meaning it can be teched and ground bounces aren't as dangerous as stage spikes or outright kills and the only spike I know that kills well is Ganondorf's, but that's balanced by its startup of 16 frames. Regardless of how many turnips, Villager's Dair is strong and meanwhile, Wii Fit Trainer with her 20 frame Dair... I hate all of Villager's aerials. Stupid Fair and Bair have ridiculous knockback (growth?), stupid Uair and Dair disjoints, and stupid gliding Nairs.

Villagers nairs are nothign compared to characters like Luigi or Yoshi's. Those are the real nightmare combo/fun breakers right there.

 

[Shaya]

Today / the past weekend should be noted as the rise of Meta Knight.

Itou and Salena. BEHOLD THEIR POWER.
Or more so, it's looking pretty noticeable that MK can hang with the big boys.

 

[webbedspace]

Ito: http://www.twitch.tv/showdownsmash/v/5820186?t=4h13m0s
Don't know who Salena is, sorry.

 

[Shaya]

I believe he got 4th at UMEBURA 16 (http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming)
Losing to Nietono 0-2 in both pretty close games.

But I saw him knocking out Yui and I heard there were quite a few other upsets along the way.
They're doing amateur bracket finals on the stream right now before going into loser's final onwards in the main bracket.

 

[Kofu]

Why!? Pre-Smash 4 Falco's frame 5 Dair can't kill onstage that early since it spikes meaning it can be teched and ground bounces aren't as dangerous as stage spikes or outright kills and the only spike I know that kills well is Ganondorf's, but that's balanced by its startup of 16 frames. Regardless of how many turnips, Villager's Dair is strong and meanwhile, Wii Fit Trainer with her 20 frame Dair... I hate all of Villager's aerials. Stupid Fair and Bair have ridiculous knockback (growth?), stupid Uair and Dair disjoints, and stupid gliding Nairs.

His aerials are really good and NAir, FAir, and BAir all end quickly enough that he can jump after using them out of a low jump. The main issue with FAir and BAir is that the slingshots can be cancelled by any sex kick aerial (though not every character has a good one) and they can be reflected. NAir is heavily limited by its range but it's nonetheless a B&B move and for good reason. UAir and BAir, as I've pointed out, are really only hindered by their RNG. You can still chain UAirs together at mid percents for good damage and DAir is kind of like a more downward-focused NAir. I've managed to get two consecutive 3-turnip meteors (DAir only has a meteor effect if it has three turnips), one being a ground bounce and the other dunking the opponent.

As a note, a lot of meteors in this game have "sourspots" that hit at the same time as the meteor hitbox but are positioned differently and kill better onstage/horizontally than the downward meteor. Villager's DAir is one of these, Falcon's is another. Some are just coded to never meteor a grounded target, such as Dedede's (though it sucks and you shouldn't use it onstage). I think the only meteor in the game that will kill from a ground bounce earlier than off the sides is Ganon's DAir (and even then I could be wrong).

 

[PUK]

Zelda meteor is the only one with only meteor hitbox i think.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Villagers nairs are nothign compared to characters like Luigi or Yoshi's.

Villager's nair is RIDICULOUS ... i think it's better than Luigi's.

 

[Luigi player]

Villager's nair is RIDICULOUS ... i think it's better than Luigi's.

yup true that.

Villagers nair hits like everywhere around him, is perfect for his followups and a great gtfo move. Luigi has to sweetspot most of the time to truly get a reward from it (sometimes the weak one helps for combos, but not too often). Hitting upwards doesn't help Luigi that much as well (unless he get's the kill from it) since he can't really trap his opponents landing too well because of his slow movement (and a lot of characters in Smash 4 have great airspeed or mobility). Luigis nair hitbox also doesn't hit all over him so he actually can't throw it out any time his opponent would touch him, the opponent has to be at the right place. Even Yoshis is better than Luigis imo, since his seems to have greater range in front and behind him.. Yoshi doesn't care if he hits his opponent while he's behind him, the move knocks him away which is perfect and the move is strong too. If Luigi had Marios airspeed his nair would be more useful, but most of the time it is unsafe, because if the opponent shields he knows where Luigi's gonna land to punish with a grab / jab.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

So there really isn't much to say in an intro paragraph that isn't already implied by the title. I've seen the tier list by Smashboards and know that tier lists tend to fluctuate, but some characters I feel are lower on the tier list simply because they haven't been touched and thus their meta hasn't been able to develop. Who do you think can rise up the ranks or hasn't gotten their fair shot yet?

- So ZeRo's most recent youtube video has these guys in a much higher tier than the Smashboards polls do, and he mentions Nairo's performances with them in particular which is of course fantastic. (I don't know much about so if someone wants to cover them in a future post I'm all ears). But the reason I think these guys are underrated is that they seem to have a set that is very beginner-friendly. They've got a basic projectile, a horizontal recovery, a vertical recovery, a reflector, multiple jumps, and their A attacks are very straightforward, thus making it relatively easy for newcomers to pick up and play them. I remember in the early days of Melee (speaking as someone who got it and the player's guide Christmas 2001) that Peach was considered a beginner character in much the same way, largely thanks to her awesome recovery. She never made it to Top tier but has been a mainstay in high tier and has some excellent representation, and I can see the same happening with the Pit bros as well. My only concern is that like I said, their A attacks can be a bit straightforward and that might make their game a bit predictable. Also despite what Zero and Nairo both say I still have to give Pit a bit more of an edge because his Side-B KOs at a more consistent rate.

- This is one I'll probably be arguing to the grave, because putting the gunner right next to the swordfighter at the bottom seems almost criminal to me. If there are any characters who have been completely lost in the shuffle, it's been the Miis. I remember in the initial stages of the Xanadu tournaments all 3 Miis were actually banned, which meant nobody was able to develop their meta at that location. Puffster did a great job of showing that Brawler at least deserved to be taken seriously. This resulted in a lot of venues including Xanadu opening them up to Default 1111 as long as the customs were off, which was far from optimal for any of the miis but Brawler was manageable. I used 1111 Brawler a lot in friendlies and had good results and ConeyZZ has been representing in tournaments, which sadly I have not been able to attend as much as I'd like. But what does this have to do with gunner?

So the gunner and swordfighter boards are nowhere near as developed as the brawler board because there has yet to be a Puffster for either one of these two. I'm aware of a lot of the flaws that have been noted for swordfighter but there really hasn't been much of any research done for the gunner. I know smash attacks are more than just their animation, otherwise Palutena would be S-tier, but the gunner's side smashes in particular seem to be very good. They have a range that few others have and trap opponents into them for a while before landing the finishing blow (plus it just looks totally awesome!) Also you've got the fairs which work a lot like villagers and have been used a lot by villagers to catch people off guard and the default side-B which works a lot like PKArcFire and is a staple to Ness and Robin's respective movesets. Depending on how customs evolves, which could be totally different for Miis than anyone else based on what we've seen*, there are a lot of great options with grenades, missiles, uppercuts, PSI magnets, and bomb drops. I think we haven't even scratched the surface with this character.

So that's my ramble. What say y'all?

*There's been lots of debates about Miis and their B moves, and they might get to use theirs even if customs are off, whether locked in 2222/3333 or otherwise. This is not to mention different speeds related to size. Gunner's pretty slow at default but still manageable a la Snake.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I wish Yoshi's nair being strong was true (in terms of killing). You're more likely to get 5% extremely late hit of nair kills offstage by gimping than actually killing with the burst 2 frames of the nair hitbox that does 10%.
That thing almost never kills sadly.

 

[warionumbah2]

I believe he got 4th at UMEBURA 16 (http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming)
.

Was hoping for a player around Abadango,aMsa,Rain level but instead its a tornadoless mid level MK you see on FG.

Got my hopes up for nothing, at least he got 4th.

 

[LightLV]

I think Miis are problematic for consideration on the roster because people would take bad developer decisions as fair over marginally, or even noticeably better player/community decisions, simply off trust alone.

 

[Shaya]

Was hoping for a player around Abadango,aMsa,Rain level but instead its a tornadoless mid level MK you see on FG.

Got my hopes up for nothing, at least he got 4th.

Don't need tornado and skills when you have shuttle loop that kills! [rhymes]

On the point of Rain though. Or at least what I saw that was pretty ludicrous between him and Choco as he played Sheik.
It's the range of needles. Against basically every character but Sheik, you can choose to bait or step back, if you're moving in and having to worry about fair (or in rain's case really smart nair usage and dash grab) and decide to take any step back to normally relieve pressure, you get needled. And in this time you're getting hit, needles are being charged again for the same "free" 6-10% the next time an opponent does a regular action that's essentially permissible (unless hard read) in any other match up in the game that doesn't involve Sheik. And I think the ranges at which Choco was getting punished for retreating was just absurd when you consider how long after that transaction it'll be until Sheik could possibly be in a tough position again. Only Sonic really doesn't mind this dynamic because of his ground specs.
That **** shouldn't be almost-FD length... my god.

*rant*.
But from what we saw, when Sheik's at a stock deficit and forced to approach, she can't find kills and she can't get away with her needle antics.

 

[LightLV]

I absolutely love how everyone was sleeping on Metaknight, and now, ever so slowly, he's cropping up as a problematic pick again.

I remember playing some casuals at a local tournament and getting absolutely bodied by a metaknight. I just figured I was trash, but it's been happening so frequently now that i'm starting to just think he's a sleeper.

 

[Djent]

"OMG!! Mii Brawler so broken killing at the edge at 40%."

Meanwhile, the Yellow Satan continues to grow in power.

 

[Firefoxx]

And to add to the fun, a Lightning Falcon Kick footstool setup that eventually leads to knee

 

[LightLV]

And to add to the fun, a Lightning Falcon Kick footstool setup that eventually leads to knee

Super Smashblue Chrono Phantasma 4 Extend

I hope that's a real combo

 

[Firefoxx]

Super Smashblue Chrono Phantasma 4 Extend

I hope that's a real combo

Honestly a more useful version would be one that just had to do nair, footstool, LFK, footstool, dair, knee. im far more interested in that working since it would have less chance for input error. That combo would obviously not be a "0-death" but it would still be a KO setup.

 

[LiteralGrill]

So there really isn't much to say in an intro paragraph that isn't already implied by the title. I've seen the tier list by Smashboards

No. The tier list done by polls are project of /r/smashbros, the Smash Bros subreddit. There is no official Smashboards tier list right now.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Super Smashblue Chrono Phantasma 4 Extend

I hope that's a real combo

You can probably tech any of the dair hits without bouncing. I think.

 

[PUK]

You can probably tech any of the dair hits without bouncing. I think.

You can't tech if you're laying on the ground

 

[Blobface]

You can't tech if you're laying on the ground

I'm pretty sure you can tech any "hard" meteor if you're on the ground. If you're at a % where it keeps you on the ground though, you can't tech.

@Smooth Criminal I meant to ask this a while ago, but do you think D3's problems are more a result of doing bad against everyone or just having too many bad matchups among top tiers?

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Characters without disjoints nor solid camp tools vs her reflector can definitely have a hard time. She may seem to go poorly in attrition, but her reliable confirms, diversity of positions she can be in to punish extending limbs are... strong. I personally think Samus and customs off Palutena can't really make much claim to be better than her. I genuinely think Jiggly is worse too.

How do the two compare, results-wise? Neither are very popular so there isn't a lot of data, but from what I've seen Palutena seems to be placing better. I mean, I haven't heard anything from Zelda lately, meanwhile Palutena just got Top 8 at a national (GOML '15)

 

[NachoOfCheese]

No. The tier list done by polls are project of /r/smashbros, the Smash Bros subreddit. There is no official Smashboards tier list right now.

Yeah guys this is something I've noticed.
You all like to say "oh lol its just Smash Reddit they don't know what they're talking about" whenever someone brings something up that they've said. Or the tier list will be posted here and we criticize it. Yet, THEY are actually making tier lists that are at the very least official among themselves. Meanwhile here we are arguing about event mode or something? We should really get our stuff together and figure out how we would make an official tier list before we discredit the Smash Reddit.

 

[Aquamentii]

On the note of Zelda, with those potential sweetsots being so devistating, is there any possibility of her being able to eliminate Luma and then using those to her advantage to mess with Rosalina due to her large height and weight class?

After doing some tests, she does seem to have some answers to Rosa. Most of her moves are good for sending Luma into freefall and thus killing her, but Rosa could get a grab at the very least on most of them. Because Luma is so small Fair and Bair would be hard so sweet spot on it, but Ftilt seems a pretty solid option to get rid of it. Zelda's upB is also very good for killing Luma but it's not safe on shield either. Another advantage is zelda's sideB is unaffected by Rosa's downB. And guess what, it also can kill Luma! I kind of bashed Zelda with my first post, but she has some tools and probably cleans house in a few match ups.

 

[Gamegenie222]

On the subject of villager in my local scene we have a little joke about Villager being the terminator cause if you can't kill Villager he/she coming back and i call the ledge the treehouse of horror for villager since villager players love the ledge.

On the subject of Robin the character is a sleeper but can't handle fast rushdown characters and being slow as jiggs doesn't help much either.

 

[Nu~]

Yeah guys this is something I've noticed.
You all like to say "oh lol its just Smash Reddit they don't know what they're talking about" whenever someone brings something up that they've said. Or the tier list will be posted here and we criticize it. Yet, THEY are actually making tier lists that are at the very least official among themselves. Meanwhile here we are arguing about event mode or something? We should really get our stuff together and figure out how we would make an official tier list before we discredit the Smash Reddit.

Why should we create a tier list this early at all?
What is the rush with tier lists in a game that hasn't even evolved yet? Too many people are in the "I need a tier list" mentality. I understand what you mean on criticizing other's tier lists, but the reason we critique theirs is because of how rushed and underdeveloped their tier list is. Many people have a general sense of how good the characters are, but no one knows for sure yet.

I say to let the meta grow

 

[Deathcarter]

Yeah guys this is something I've noticed.
You all like to say "oh lol its just Smash Reddit they don't know what they're talking about" whenever someone brings something up that they've said. Or the tier list will be posted here and we criticize it. Yet, THEY are actually making tier lists that are at the very least official among themselves. Meanwhile here we are arguing about event mode or something? We should really get our stuff together and figure out how we would make an official tier list before we discredit the Smash Reddit.

We'll get right on that as soon as we figure out when Sakurai will stop issuing balance patches.

 

[Luco]

But a tier list doesn't have to be the most accurate thing in the world: We have this perception that we have to know everything about every characters' level of viability before we can construct a tier list and I don't think that has to be the case. Brawl had it's first tier list about a year after its release, and we're not too far from approaching that point with Smash 4. I like having a tier list because then people can argue over it and its placements and we can construct new tier lists every 6 months to rectify any serious issues we have with said list. It presents something to the wider FGC as the face of our meta-game, and I'm finding conversations in this thread to be tiring because we can only really talk about characters as being 'high tier' or 'mid tier' and don't really talk about placements within those tiers. I think a tier list would really help begin to solidify our ideas, even if we run the risk of it being reasonably inaccurate on its first and/or second versions.

I agree that the meta should be allowed to evolve a little more, but to be honest I think after EVO we should really begin to look at how we can create a list and the best evidence and theory possible to make one.

OR even, instead of starting work on a tier list, we could start a MU chart project which focuses on getting character boards to do discussions with other character boards and formulating a chart based off these ideals. I mean, each character board at this stage already has a good idea of which MUs they win and don't, and which characters hard counter them and which ones they're disadvantaged against; these conversations are already beginning to happen, so it would just be encouraging the boards to continue and make their discussions as 'official' as they can be. In fact I think I like this idea more.

Anyway, I think EVO needs to be the stepping point for us, for... something. Creating a tier list, creating a (transparent) front-room, creating a MU chart... Like I honestly think we should try to band something together after EVO and get something started. I remember way back when people were calling for projects to be started after Apex, and I only worry our inaction will become the norm if we continue to say 'let it wait, let the meta develop, it's only been x amount of time', y'know?

 

[bc1910]

I think Robin is a good character. Sleeper high tier might be pushing it but Robin being good is the main reason why I never believed in Fire Emblem tier (although I do think Marcina and Ike probably started off mid-low and are all now solidly mid). I thought Robin was quite good before the rapid jab buff and now I'm completely sold. Arcfire activating on shields is like half the reason why I think Robin can work at high level but yeah, I don't think Robin is a MU you can autopilot unless you have a projectile that ignores arcfire. Crossup rolling is a huge thorn in that move's side but I feel as Robins get better at spacing it (God forbid they perfect run back > arcfire) that weakness will be less crippling. Robin has other strengths as well, that jab buff has been mostly ignored but it brings Robin's jab combo to almost pre-patch Little Mac levels of damage, and it's a true combo as well. Robin now has what I would class as a scary option up close when previously he had nothing.

Sheik sort of trashes Robin, though. Needles pass through arcfire, are way too quick for any variant of Thunder to do anything and Sheik can even pile on the pressure up close if she feels like it. I think Robin is the literal best example of what Dabuz was talking about, how there are lots of characters who would be viable if Sheik didn't wreck them so hard.

 

[LightLV]

Why should we create a tier list this early at all?
What is the rush with tier lists in a game that hasn't even evolved yet?
I say to let the meta grow

Why do people keep saying this

the meta never stops evolving as long as people are sharing information, and that certainly happens

There are tournaments with results every week

The matches are likely on the internet but the results are definitely available

With the exception of those in the middle pool, it is HIGHLY unlikely the top or bottom will see any drastic changes.

At the very least, the tiers between the top and bottom will shrink and converge into broad ones, the way Melee's has

At the most extreme, some random character nobody had reason to pay attention to will find some exploit that makes them possibly S-tier for a very niche reason.

^This is less likely to happen than (most people) like to think.^



The idea of an "OFFICIAL" tier list is almost just as silly as the idea that we have to wait 2-4 years to make one. We've had a good grasp on who's worth playing competitively and who isnt for the majority of Smash 4's current lifetime at this point. Unless someone were to program a computer to execute every character with the most optimal path of play, frame perfect, with the best possible decision making at every turn, there will never be a tier list that describes which one character is factually better than another. Unless we're playing brawl and Metaknight exists.

Until then, a tier list based on compiled tournament results and pro competitive player feedback is about as factual as you could possibly get.

Go to your respective forums, learn how crappy your matchups are, and pray Sakurai cares about them as much as you do.

 

[Noa.]

Honestly when a tier list does get made it should just have the top and high tier characters. Only the most relevant tournament characters should be listed.

It's way too early to make an accurate list for the middle and lower tiers. Just have the list state that the rest of the characters have not been explored enough to be tournament threats.

The top of the list is the only part that matters anyways.

 

[Gunla]

I agree with Luco on the timing of starting something.

With EVO, we'll have a massive tournament with plenty of data to look at, and a look at how customs affect a national-level tournament, good or bad. Many boards do try to get matchups analyzed (and quantified) but many are often waiting for "the meta to still develop". The meta will pretty much continue to evolve throughout this game's lifetime, and post-EVO is a good starting point to really begin major projects. And with that said, a tier list can take months to develop and likely could release around the year mark of 3DS/Wii U.

 

[FullMoon]

Lucas is coming in a week and a patch might follow suit

The ballot ends in October so we can expect another patch sometime after it.

With this game being changed as often as it is, a tier list sounds pretty unnecessary until the patching stops

Prior results don't mean much when those matches could've been gone in an entirely different direction had one change from a balance patch been applied there.

What's the rush to get a tier list done when a patch could easily make it irrelevant a few months after?

 

[Luco]

I dunno Noa, I think it's fine to include the mid and low tiers and then just sort out their actual placements as time goes on. I know it's tempting to say 'well these are the only characters that matter' but there are dedicated mains out there for other characters and I think in the interests of fairness they should be placed just like the top tiers, but I dunno. ^_^

Patches are definitely a fair point, but this is why I believe a tier list should be updated, probably every 6 months or so once the meta-game after a given patch has 'set in'. I mean, it's unlikely that patches will change a tier list so much that the old one becomes entirely irrelevant imo.