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Character Competitive Impressions

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Dre89

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I hope they just nerf Diddy's uair and fair. Either that or they just clip his damage accross the board. One of those two seems fair.
 
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Shaya

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Yep balance patch.
Like 1.04 I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot of considerations based around the shi-gaming tier list.
So...

I can only imagine marth/lucina/robin getting overbuffed :>
Anyone ready for fairs to fsmash ALL THE TIME? (I already get them all the time, but what about in ways that aren't avoidable ever?)

Anyway, no point speculah-ing about the patch here. General sections will be full of the stuff~
 

Ffamran

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I can't wait for Falco to get nerfed so Wolf would look better. :p

So... does that mean Lucas and Ness share PK Freeze? Hopefully Lucas's PK Freeze is different in some way despite being PK Freeze like how Lucas's PK Fire was different.
 
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Yonder

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Diddy will be throwing feces instead of bananas now he's ******** himself so much in fear of the banhammer.

[I'm scared for Luigi now too, hes perfect the way he is now...don't touch him please Sakurai]
 

Road Death Wheel

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Right, but you're looking solely at weight class. There's more to survivability (and, thus, 'glass'-iness) in Smash than weight class.

Think of recovery like health recovery moves in an rpg. You get knocked off-stage, but you can recover back onto the on-stage fight by getting back to the stage. Having a good recovery is a way of extending your stock, whilst having a crappy recovery means you have poor/no means of extending or preserving your stock when knocked offstage.

This is similar to restoring some HP in LoL or an rpg - you extend your survivability just a bit to try and stay in the fight. Some characters in rpgs are easily killed, but they can utilize healing magic to actually have decently high 'survivability'. This prevents them from being a glass cannon, meanwhile the flimsy fire mage that has 0 armor and 0 healing and mediocre mobility is most definitely a true glass cannon.

Meanwhile some characters have a poor recovery but high weight - this is simply survivability balanced differently within the character. Bowser's ability to be easily taken advantage of makes him, in many matchups, more of a 'glass cannon with low actual survivability' than sheik. Smash is weird in this way. :p
Like i said we simply see thing differently.
 

Pyr

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Diddy will be throwing feces instead of bananas now he's ******** himself so much in fear of the banhammer.

[I'm scared for Luigi now too, hes perfect the way he is now...don't touch him please Sakurai]
Yay! Balance patch! Wait... Luigi might get hit... But Diddy might get hit.. Mewtwo... LUCAS... And it's April 1st! I don't know how to feel anymore.
 

Yonder

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If those *******s buff :4pikachu:...
He's already one of the best in game, no thanks.

Actually, he'd be nice and balanced if he got a QA nerf. That's literally all he needs, seeing that move at my local tournies by an amazing Pikachu...it's so bull.
 

Sinister Slush

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Mewtwo patch
Lucas Patch
And possibly 3rd character based on votes and who Nintendo actually deems worthy that isn't dumb silly **** like Shrek or Ridley.

That's 3 possible patches and possibly more to come.
 

BiRdZ

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Seeing Lucas come back gives me hope that Wolf might have a chance. Can someone please answer if any of Lucas's moves looked liked Ness's customs? They looked visually different but I don't know.
 

ChronoPenguin

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Balance patches are going to happen, but I want us to be discussing Isaac sometime within my lifetime...so drop that vote.

I assume they're going to look at Japan, online performance and internal playtesting. Its kind of funny because as far as I know, Sakurai doesn't really consider customs a thing anyways. So unless EVO changes his mind this'll be based on default performances except for maybe Mii's and Paletuna since they're intentionally included from the get-go. I find it unlikely that customs will be of any real consideration outside of possibly bug fixes. For Glory doesn't allow it, japanese tournaments don't allow them, and Sakurai has them as a side feature.



I do wish there were statistics for their online results to try and extrapolate a train of thought.
 
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Yonder

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Seeing Lucas come back gives me hope that Wolf might have a chance. Can someone please answer if any of Lucas's moves looked liked Ness's customs? They looked visually different but I don't know.
Ness literally has Lucas's specials for his customs basically identical. It's weird...not salty though since I like Lucas more than Ness.

Think Lucas will be a competitive force in this game like Ness? His moveset is the same...like Mewtwo's is.

Anyone else notice Mewtwo's reflector actually reflects back for damage now? It's a good step in the right direction!
 

Kofu

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:4palutena:/:4gaw: synergy in custom doubles:

-fill the bucket w/ one Autoreticle (2.9 damage per hit).
-GnW UAir helps set up for early kills in Lightweight.

Have fun.
It's a pretty weak bucket as far as knockback is concerned though. I think It'll kill around 80% or so.

The damage, however? Enjoy a free 24%!
 

BiRdZ

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Ness literally has Lucas's specials for his customs basically identical. It's weird...not salty though since I like Lucas more than Ness.

Think Lucas will be a competitive force in this game like Ness? His moveset is the same...like Mewtwo's is.

Anyone else notice Mewtwo's reflector actually reflects back for damage now? It's a good step in the right direction!
Alright, thanks for the answer. I don't think Lucas will be as good as Ness unless Sakurai buffed Lucas as much as Ness if not more.
 

Road Death Wheel

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I know people have been saying samus is low teir but god damn if she gets buffs i don't know what tah say! I think shes solid already.
 
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ChronoPenguin

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Sometimes characters that are perceived as doing well have poor WLR. The data they have collected and their internal testing may not leading to some characters who are considered "too good" to actually be touched.

The opposite is also true where poorly perceived characters actually statistically win among the majority. Various reasons for this and I speak mostly from Moba's but the Tl;dr, is that depending on what Sakurai is aiming for and how many sources he is going to use, 'good' characters may be buffed and 'bad' characters nerfed.
 

Pyr

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So... More headgear and suits for the Miis... Maybe more skins in the future? Maybe...



Really, I'm hoping for 2 things: Ganon buffs, and Ganon model fixes/updates.
 

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So... More headgear and suits for the Miis... Maybe more skins in the future? Maybe...



Really, I'm hoping for 2 things: Ganon buffs, and Ganon model fixes/updates.
I was actually going to secondary Ganondorf if he got this look + a HW moveset...


But NOPE! I hate Ganondorf in every game sides Melee so far.

I bet Ganondorf won't be touched in the patch. Gut feeling.
 

Road Death Wheel

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I was actually going to secondary Ganondorf if he got this look + a HW moveset...


But NOPE! I hate Ganondorf in every game sides Melee so far.

I bet Ganondorf won't be touched in the patch. Gut feeling.
woah what a contrast! i love ganon in basically all the games.
 

Quickhero

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Did they actually confirm a patch with balance updates? If so, I REALLY HOPE it's nothing more than minor, ESPECIALLY WITH NERFS.

If Diddy Kong gets nerfed (more other than maybe requiring a SLIGHTLY higher percent to kill) because of outcry it will take me a while for me to respect this community as experienced. It will just prove to me that this community (as a whole) has 0 experience with previous fighting games and cannot appreciate a top tier character, that not only isn't broken, but doesn't massively shift the meta-game and make characters unviable due to bad match-ups.

I'm scared more of that than I am excited for Marth buffs. (I would love some reduce on all of Marth's aerials, but I can live without it) My fear for needless Diddy Kong nerfs only increases every post about nerfs.
 
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Road Death Wheel

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Did they actually confirm a patch with balance updates? If so, I REALLY HOPE it's nothing more than minor, ESPECIALLY WITH NERFS.

If Diddy Kong gets nerfed (more other than maybe requiring a SLIGHTLY higher percent to kill) because of outcry it will take me a while for me to respect this community as experienced. It will just prove to me that this community (as a whole) has 0 experience with previous fighting games and cannot appreciate a top tier character, that not only isn't broken, but doesn't massively shift the meta-game and make characters unviable due to bad match-ups.

I'm scared more of that than I am excited for Marth buffs. (I would love some reduce on all of Marth's aerials, but I can live without it) My fear for needless Diddy Kong nerfs only increases every post about nerfs.
Sorry thats how balance works though bud. tops get more tame and lows get more options. Diddy is most likly goingto take a rather noticable hit. Thats the stress of having such a linier predictable and effective game plan. nefs will happens your fear will probably come true. come to terms with it now rather than later.

*edit* Also just went and voted for my boy wolf
 
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Dre89

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Did they actually confirm a patch with balance updates? If so, I REALLY HOPE it's nothing more than minor, ESPECIALLY WITH NERFS.

If Diddy Kong gets nerfed (more other than maybe requiring a SLIGHTLY higher percent to kill) because of outcry it will take me a while for me to respect this community as experienced. It will just prove to me that this community (as a whole) has 0 experience with previous fighting games and cannot appreciate a top tier character, that not only isn't broken, but doesn't massively shift the meta-game and make characters unviable due to bad match-ups.

I'm scared more of that than I am excited for Marth buffs. (I would love some reduce on all of Marth's aerials, but I can live without it) My fear for needless Diddy Kong nerfs only increases every post about nerfs.
They confirmed a character balancing patch.

Diddy's not unbeatable or anything, but uair and fair are just stupid moves. They should be nerfed slightly.

I think the healthiest nerf would be just to remove the killpower of uair. That way it's still an effective combo and frametrap tool, but it gives Diddy a second meaningful weakness in that fsmash is the only way he can kill onstage sub 150%.

But let's be real. If Diddy takes a severe hit people will just play Sheik and it'll start all over again. This community has demonstrated that they'll cry about anything strong.
 
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Pyr

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Did they actually confirm a patch with balance updates? If so, I REALLY HOPE it's nothing more than minor, ESPECIALLY WITH NERFS.

If Diddy Kong gets nerfed (more other than maybe requiring a SLIGHTLY higher percent to kill) because of outcry it will take me a while for me to respect this community as experienced. It will just prove to me that this community (as a whole) has 0 experience with previous fighting games and cannot appreciate a top tier character, that not only isn't broken, but doesn't massively shift the meta-game and make characters unviable due to bad match-ups.

I'm scared more of that than I am excited for Marth buffs. (I would love some reduce on all of Marth's aerials, but I can live without it) My fear for needless Diddy Kong nerfs only increases every post about nerfs.
When you're the best character in the game, and proven to be so, then you're getting the nerf-hammer in a world where balance patches happen. And it's not because of community outcry. It's because Diddy gets results. Ironically, it's the experienced community getting those results.
 

ILOVESMASH

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Balance patches will end up ruining this game from a competitive standpoint if they occur frequently. The metagame can't evolve when characters are consistently changing. Not only that, but Characters being buffed or nerfed effectively waste all time the player pours into said character and completely changes the tourney scene. I'm predicting Diddy Kong to become a shadow of his former self with this update, effectively wasting the time of player who not only mained him, but those who go against him in tournaments. Hopefully this is the last balance patch.
 

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150 is too much imo, a lot of characters have a kill-confirm earlier and Diddy should be the same, I say around 120-135 max, assuming Diddy has rage.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of my post, and was actually the point of it. He SHOULD be nerfed a little bit, but I refuse for him to get nerfed a lot because of community outcry over actual logic. I feel like the idea of patches has spoiled this community quite a bit. People will become less tolerant of stuff that really isn't that jank because, unlike many fighters, they have the option to patch. I feel like Sakurai should still rarely patch, I do not want this to become League, especially when there are less characters and creating a healthy fighting game is easily available.

One thing they SHOULD nerf are the Link jab infinite and Fox Jab infinite, they just shouldn't exist, period. They could do something like scale the jabs per repeat so if you spam it the knock-back becomes too much to "combo." Anything really, just as long as Link can still jab to d-smash.
 
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Road Death Wheel

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Balance patches will end up ruining this game from a competitive standpoint if they occur frequently. The metagame can't evolve when characters are consistently changing. Not only that, but Characters being buffed or nerfed effectively waste all time the player pours into said character and completely changes the tourney scene. I'm predicting Diddy Kong to become a shadow of his former self with this update, effectively wasting the time of player who not only mained him, but those who go against him in tournaments. Hopefully this is the last balance patch.
No one gave a damn abou tthe yearly realease of street fighter 4's they game is early and things are noticably un balanced dispite being the most balanced of all the games if they want to strive for better balance we should not be letting the competitive comunity stop them.
 
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