Character Competitive Impressions

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm not saying Ganondorf (nor Link for that matter) is an overbearing character to most of the cast; it's just that I'm saying he has some aspects that can at least HELP him go against others; maybe not particularly win some match ups, hell, I say that him against Sheik is well in Sheik's favor. But he has aspects that make it easier for him to have a chance.

I am not here to say that Link nor Ganondorf are particularly top tier, but I am wanting to state that they are really good, solid characters. I try finding the aspects that will help them in match-ups, to be fair.

I'm not saying they're in the best of tiers, I just try finding things good about them.

Ganondorf's power and attack speed, as well as Bowser's size, are reasons why Bowser could struggle with Ganondorf; while on the other hand, Bowser's speed and ranged attacks are reasons Ganondorf could struggle with Bowser. Yet Ganondorf has the better combo ability and punish ability than Bowser can have. But Bowser has raw weight and durability with him.

Ah! well put.

Here here even Mu agreement.

Also if your true intent is what your post states simply think about your opening statements before hand k?

 

[Funkermonster]

@ Road Death Wheel


Also can we talk about ?

^Legitimate question: I have no idea how to feel about this character's place in the roster and it's competitive hierarchy. Messing around with them myself I actually feel like their approach game is insane and they're one of the few characters who can legitimately ENGAGE because they don't wait to punish things - they approach with mix-ups UNTIL those cause you to do something punishable. However I feel like their disadvantage state is so atrocious that it kills them as a character. Despite that UpB it's just bad. dair isn't disjointed enough to stuff things. UpB can be stuffed before it reaches actual frame of detach. Even if you get it off, so long as they avoid eating the actual shell explosion you're EASILY punished and have one baitable hammer swing between you and death. It feels absolutely miserable to be disadvantaged as these little tykes, with like the only consolation being fair is a pretty decent way to return horizontally because it's a nice hitbox with staying time.

I greatly disagree that their approach game is insane and they don't wait to punish things. The Koopalings actually stink at approaching in general, which is considered by Koopaling mains themselves as one of their greatest weaknesses. I feel they are better played as characters who control space and stuff enemy approaches with spacing, and overall just annoy people with their mechakoopas. Their approaches are basically:

• Dash Attack, not safe on shield
• Dash Grab, and a pretty slow grab at that
• Fair, which has too much landing lag,
• SideB, which greatly limits their options in the neutral: no shield, no grab, and limited attacks (none of which are safe on shield). It doesn't even move all that fast and it comes with a telegraphed trajectory. Even if you jump from it, you are still open to UpBs and Usmashes out of shield, assuming your opponents can do these well.
• Mechakoopa then SideB, both of which are blockable. Sometimmes you can also just pick up a mechakoopa and use it against them too.

They don't really have safe enough options to warrant them being called good at approaching, and against a competent opponent they're really gonna struggle to get in against characters who can zone super well.

As for myself, I personally feel the Koopalings are sadly probably lower mid tier. As much as I like Junior in the Mario games, his Smash Bros incarnation is an extremely difficult character to use and he doesn't look like he's got a bright future ahead of him competitively.

• His grab game is pretty underwhelming. Not only does he have a weak set of throws (can't really kill or combo into anything), but his grab is pitiful slow. Not as slow as 's grab, but still slow. Almost as slow as a tether grab, and it doesn't even have the range of a tether grab to make up for its sluggishness.
• His approach options suck ass, and I've already elaborated on why I think so.
• His out of shield options aren't that amazing either. Shieldgrabbing is too slow to be reliable most of the time. Nair has too little knockback until higher percents. UpB is insanely punishable and your soft fleshy turtle body is exposed if you se it.
• Onstage kill moves are all very dangerous and highly situational.

Bowser Jr and friends would be good if they didn't have such abysmal approaches and a horrible grab/set of throws. They were given tools that seemingly enable them to play with rushdown and zoning, but they don't actually excel at either of those and have trouble facing characters who do, and I think that harms them as a character kinda badly. They have a difficult time dealing with characters who can walk all over them with pressure or keep them at bay, although I do think they can do great against those who can't do either like , /, and even their old man. The way I see it, the Koopalings aren't the weakest, but they are still pretty weak.

 

[Vincent21]

Uh how are they punishing you for your unsafe shield moves if, when you graba mechakoopa twice, you have a bomb in your hand that doesn't hurt you? It means they have to shield through both my hit and my bomb or they explode when they try to punch or grab me. That with the 50/50 sideB mix-up makes you an approaching nightmare since all your unsafe moves are in-fact safe if they commit to shield. Like yeah you're DEPENDANT on the mechakoopaling defense and how it modifies your game, almost like how Tink pretty much always needs a bomb is his hand, but having that option, and the fact the it can be blow up by them hitting it (hence the ability to double explode when they attack it as it explodes) means it's not timer based and covers multiple punishes. Having a koopa out even on the ground magnifies your game, since it means if they commit to shielding your incoming approach raw then if you properly spaced yourself in relation to your mechakoop they can't punish you.

It literally fixes every problem you listed (forcing them either to jump into awkward aerials or shield to offer grab opportunities even for your bad grab), which creates more of a problem of dependency than lack of said options.

Then that just leaves the dismal disadvantage state to overcome.

 

[meleebrawler]

Then that just leaves the dismal disadvantage state to overcome.

Fixed somewhat by Grounding Dash. And maybe Meteor Ejection.

 

[Meru.]

Zelda actually gets U-air from d-throw at mid-high percents, which is a dangerous kill setup and still does good damage if it happens at too low of a percentage to kill. She can also bait air dodges by doing d-throw to b-air at mid percents instead of n-air to mix things up. B-throw also kills.

While Zelda's neutral is poor overall and definitely much worse than Palutena's, she has options. Jab, while one of the slowest in the game, is a fairly quick option with decent range and leads to a guaranteed dash grab or dash attack at low-mid percents. F-tilt has good range and about average speed, allowing it to function nicely as a keepout move of sorts. D-tilt is fairly quick and sends out Zelda's foot enough to be useful and leads into all sorts of things.

Zelda generally plays a more defensive and reactive game anyway and has the tools for doing so for the most part. Naryu's Love is a decent OoS option that doubles as a reflector and roll-catcher, Farore's Wind is a dangerous punisher both OoS and at range (for whiffed attacks/laggy projectiles) and is an excellent recovery. Her projectiles are both poor in neutral in most cases, but they can function against slower characters at long range.

I think that Zelda's weaknesses were a bit overstated here; she's a flawed character with her poor movement, poor neutral, generally slow attacking options, laggy projectiles, and tall frame, but her strengths are great as well. Farore's Wind is one of the best moves in the game and is essentially the crux of Zelda's gameplay. The amazing kill power, punishing options, defensive options and recovery that it provides is just phenomenal. All of her aerials kill well aside from n-air and they all have decent speed. Her grab game is solid and the grab itself has above-average range and isn't too laggy. Her tilts are all solid and she has good options out of jab. I'm not too sure if she's better than Palu or not without customs, but the comparison is a bit flawed.

You can DI out of her Dthrow > Uair by moving to the side. You can even airdodge out of it (but you don't even need to if you DI). She hardly gets an Uair from Dthrow against people who know how to DI out of it. Bthrow kills, but not super early. I think it's pretty comparable to Palutena's Bthrow. Jab "combos" are inconsistent, opponent often seem to escape the grab/dash attack follow-up. I wouldn't call it guaranteed. Other than that it has no real reward either, which is kinda sad for a frame 11 jab (probably the slowest in the game). Ftilt misses at point blank, hits on frame 12 and has plently of lag. It's an awful keep-out move and generally not a good move in general. Nayru's Love is not a good OoS option because it hits on frame 12, which is very slow. It has other uses though, and it's an ok move. Farore Wind is very dangerous because it kills early and comes out fast, but you can DI out of the elevator after you get hits by the first hit. It's still going to be one of her main moves, but it will still remain to be seen how reliable this move is. If she misses the second hit, she is in for some big punishment after all. Her aerials are all super laggy and unreliable, except for Dair which is amazing for spiking, one of her best assets in this game. The start-up on her grab is one of the slowest of the non-tether grabs.

I'm also not very sure why we are comparing Palutena and Zelda, but either way I think Zelda is worse, and contender for worst character in game. She probably not much worse than Palutena though... Palutena is also pretty awful. I'm also still skeptical about Palutena being top tier with customs on. Sure, she becomes a viable character, but top tier? I feel she's is one the easiest characters to figure out and learn the match-up of.

 

[meleebrawler]

You can DI out of her Dthrow > Uair by moving to the side. You can even airdodge out of it (but you don't even need to if you DI). She hardly gets an Uair from Dthrow against people who know how to DI out of it. Bthrow kills, but not super early. I think it's pretty comparable to Palutena's Bthrow. Jab "combos" are inconsistent, opponent often seem to escape the grab/dash attack follow-up. I wouldn't call it guaranteed. Other than that it has no real reward either, which is kinda sad for a frame 11 jab (probably the slowest in the game). Ftilt misses at point blank, hits on frame 12 and has plently of lag. It's an awful keep-out move and generally not a good move in general. Nayru's Love is not a good OoS option because it hits on frame 12, which is very slow. It has other uses though, and it's an ok move. Farore Wind is very dangerous because it kills early and comes out fast, but you can DI out of the elevator after you get hits by the first hit. It's still going to be one of her main moves, but it will still remain to be seen how reliable this move is. If she misses the second hit, she is in for some big punishment after all. Her aerials are all super laggy and unreliable, except for Dair which is amazing for spiking, one of her best assets in this game. The start-up on her grab is one of the slowest of the non-tether grabs.

I'm also not very sure why we are comparing Palutena and Zelda, but either way I think Zelda is worse, and contender for worst character in game. She probably not much worse than Palutena though... Palutena is also pretty awful. I'm also still skeptical about Palutena being top tier with customs on. Sure, she becomes a viable character, but top tier? I feel she's is one the easiest characters to figure out and learn the match-up of.

The person who started this discussion (can't find him) wanted to know who was worse than no customs Palutena,
and I answered. It's just... Palutena has good (though admittedly few) neutral tools combined with good mobility
that lets her at least keep up with the higher tiers, and Super Speed/Lightweight enhances this strength.

Zelda Ftilt I find is okay though, it's decent for pivoting and can get kills when you can't hit with anything else.
It's just that it's too slow and lacks the range for aggressive poking.
Have you tested point-blank whiffs on 2D stages like Flat Zone?

 

[Thinkaman]

Bowser Jr . is offensively solid thanks to his disjoint and general pseudo-safety of up-b. His damage reward is bonkers, probably the best overall in the game.

Side-B is great. Side-b 2 is great. Side-b 3 is great. They also are great in radically different ways, which is nice.

I think he struggles with Sonic, who can chase and punish up-b, and generally slip though his walls of hitboxes.

 

[bc1910]

You don't see me claiming Falco 70:30's everyone. Let's NOT insult, mock, flame, or troll others.

Yes, but I'm sure that's because you appreciate how rare 7:3s actually are and how hard they are to win for the disadvantaged party. To suggest a character beats someone 8:2 is an extremely bold statement, making that matchup practically unwinnable for the disadvantaged party. I don't agree with insulting or mocking people either but I do think it's important to help people see how uncommon 7:3-or-worse MUs are (especially in a game as well balanced as this).

 

[LiteralGrill]

TIME FOR THE /r/smashbros MONTHLY VOTED TIER LIST!​

This one for the first time assumes that customs are on for voting as well, since the last month got over 805 votes it'll be curious to see how this goes. There's topics on the thread as always for folks who wanna go and try to educate the masses on reddit about characters if you'd like. Hopefully the results will be decent like last month.

 

[Spinosaurus]

So after some experiments with customs turns out Wario's Chomp completely stops Kong Cyclone.

I'm actually really liking custom Wario. Rose waft makes matchups like Pikachu and Sheik a lot more manageable, since the hitbox and damage of it is insane.


EDIT: Oh yeah. Dragon Rush is the truth.

 

[thehard]

Kinda neat thing you can do with Timber Counter: once the sapling is planted, get your opponent in between you and it and push them with the water can for a trip, and you can even walk forward and grow the tree under them if they don't react fast enough

 

[Antonykun]

It's kinda funny to see people talking about Villager's Timber Counter (It mostly just makes Villager's good matchups even better with Sonic being an exception) when EBT is what really helps villager with the bad matchups.

 

[Funkermonster]

Uh how are they punishing you for your unsafe shield moves if, when you graba mechakoopa twice, you have a bomb in your hand that doesn't hurt you? It means they have to shield through both my hit and my bomb or they explode when they try to punch or grab me. That with the 50/50 sideB mix-up makes you an approaching nightmare since all your unsafe moves are in-fact safe if they commit to shield. Like yeah you're DEPENDANT on the mechakoopaling defense and how it modifies your game, almost like how Tink pretty much always needs a bomb is his hand, but having that option, and the fact the it can be blow up by them hitting it (hence the ability to double explode when they attack it as it explodes) means it's not timer based and covers multiple punishes. Having a koopa out even on the ground magnifies your game, since it means if they commit to shielding your incoming approach raw then if you properly spaced yourself in relation to your mechakoop they can't punish you.

It literally fixes every problem you listed (forcing them either to jump into awkward aerials or shield to offer grab opportunities even for your bad grab), which creates more of a problem of dependency than lack of said options.

Then that just leaves the dismal disadvantage state to overcome.

It literally fixes every problem you listed (forcing them either to jump into awkward aerials or shield to offer grab opportunities even for your bad grab), which creates more of a problem of dependency than lack of said options.

No it doesn't, the Mechakoopa is not that good, I think you're givin' it way too much respect. The mechakoopa is pretty damn scary for stage control and can even lead into combos if your opponent is caught unaware, I'll admit. For all the other stuff you brought up though, not so much.

1. It takes too long to deploy these little robots, and you can easily be punished if you try to use it under pressure. And if your opponent knows the matchup and plays a character who can walk all over you, you're kind of always under pressure, and Junior doesn't really have the tools to deal with pressure effectively.
2. They can simply be picked up if walking on the ground.
3. They don't really do anything to a shielding opponent. If it touches a shield, it'll simply walk right past the enemy.
4. They can be caught even if you throw them. Might be a little tricky to do sine they fly a little fast, but it can be done.
5. If your opponent does catch it, they can throw it back and use your own weapon against you. Granted, it does limit their options while they're holding it, but it still kinda sucks that it isn't your property.

These robot thingies are indeed a great tool, but when they're slow to deploy and can be used against you, the future is not that far off. His grab is terrible, his approach options are limited, his out of shield options are limited, his killing options are limited; the mechakoopa is good, but isn't good enough to "fix" any of these.

It means they have to shield through both my hit and my bomb or they explode when they try to punch or grab me. That with the 50/50 sideB mix-up makes you an approaching nightmare since all your unsafe moves are in-fact safe if they commit to shield.


And you say that like its a hard thing to pull off, shielding both of those at the same time is fairly easy to do Using them so close together also opens a possibility of them capturing your little buddy and then lob at you, which WILL beat you out of your kart no matter where they hit you with it. Your opponent can also just jump over both you and the robot and air dodge if they know you're going to try and attack from it, which allows them to escape or even get a free punish. And SideB and the options from it are definitely not always safe, even if you do follow after a mechakoopa. If your opponent blocks it, there is literally no safe option you've got other than jumping and air dodging, which gets old after doing it for like 5 times. The mechakoopa can shield poke if you've whittled down their shield enough, so I guess I can kind of see its use a an approach situationally. The reason I claim SideB is a **** approach is because in neutral positions, your opponent is expected to have pretty much all his/her options available to counter yours. When driving your car you can't grab anything, can't shield anything, and the only attacks you can use are the spinout and your aerials. You don't have enough choices out of this thing to warrant it being called a good approach. Its the same with , shield and he can't really do anything. Both characters are pretty bad at raw approaches, but Sonic has the speed and surprises to scare the crap out of his opponents and has far more options out of his SideB, Junior doesn't really get those luxuries sadly. What the Kart is good for though, is making your movement unpredictable (jumping backwards away from your opponent is usually the safer, preferred option), comboing, recovering, and fake outs. Don't get me wrong, the Kart and its customis a pretty large part of Junior's play and a fairly good move for multiple purposes, but approaching is not one of them

No offense man and I don't mean this as an insult, but if you think his approaching is nightmareish and that he doesn't rely on punishes to get in, it doesn't look like you've got too much experience playing as or against him against competent opponents. Junior's moveset is reliant almost entirely on punishing mistakes, and the key to defeating him is patience. If you're really cool, calm, and collected during the fight, you're unlikely to make too many mistakes for him punish and you can either force him to approach with risky, punishable moves or try to hit you with his 2 projectiles: One of which is slow, telegraphed, and a horrid move overall, the other takes too long to make and can be thrown back at him. If your opponent knows the Koopalings and their player, it's gonna be way harder to win and you might find yourself disappointed in competition.

 

[Vincent21]

I said hold it in your hand. On the ground it's a decent took. Koopa IN HAND is a powerful one. Double grabbing; removes it's ability to hurt you, places it in hand, makes it explode when you are hit while it is in your hand if the angle touches it's hitbox (maybe even if it doesn't)?

That's what I'm talking about with those hits. You can sideb with it and do regrab set-ups. There is a video of this somewhere...

But yeah. Getting them in your hand is hard in disadvantage and plays into his terrible disadvantage. Although I'm not going to pretend I didn't exaggerate his offensive options. I just don't agree that he doesn't approach.

 

[Teshie U]

So anyone wanna talk about how there are no good Fox players and he isn't viable?

 

[Vincent21]

I mean if you're going to fire shots, could you please start us off with more than a sentence? You've made me curious. Now engage me.

 

[Nu~]

So anyone wanna talk about how there are no good Fox players and he isn't viable?

Be careful where you swing that kind of bait.

 

[Antonykun]

So anyone wanna talk about how there are no good Fox players and he isn't viable?

Go to youtube and search Megafox and comeback saying that there aren't any good foxes.

 

[Teshie U]

Go to youtube and search Megafox and comeback saying that there aren't any good foxes.

Any player calling himself megafox is probably not good. I think I know who you are talking about and I'm not impressed.

Fox can't handle the top tiers.

 

[Antonykun]

Any player calling himself megafox is probably not good. I think I know who you are talking about and I'm not impressed.

Fox can't handle the top tiers.

OK then EXPLAIN how he loses to top tiers.
Like Fox is a character that holds on to advantage for so freaking long its hard to see how he's not the perceived high tier he is now

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Any player calling himself megafox is probably not good. I think I know who you are talking about and I'm not impressed.

Fox can't handle the top tiers.

Be careful where you swing that kind of bait.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Teshie U]

With lasers being nearly useless in this game, Fox is forced to play close range, where the grab happy top tiers tend to prevail with guaranteed damage and kill setups. He has limited range and a linear recovery despite some decent power and good frame data.

He loses to shield and will eventually get grabbed and killed easily like everyone else.

 

[DanGR]

I don't think bowser jr.'s approach game is very good unless you've had time to pull out a koopa. His zoning is decent in that he has some really nice disjoints with good frame data (barely not enough to use them as pokes), and you always gotta respect the side-b.

Mechakoopas do a good job at making up for his subpar grab and shield pressure, but its cooldown is a huge burden for a character without a reliable neutral otherwise. This character is really swingy in my experience. Difficult time in neutral, but wins hard in advantages states.

I imagine he performs well on delphino, which gives him time to pull out koopas during stage transformations. The default, floating stage layout seems good for extending his vertical combos as well.

 

[Vincent21]

With lasers being nearly useless in this game, Fox is forced to play close range, where the grab happy top tiers tend to prevail with guaranteed damage and kill setups. He has limited range and a linear recovery despite some decent power and good frame data.

He loses to shield and will eventually get grabbed and killed easily like everyone else.

Well, alright. There is a basis. We are now engaged.

So Shofu and Megafox are apparently not good Fox players, and he's bad because he deals poorly with grabs, and with linear recovery deals poorly with edgeguarding as well (just extrapolating), and his limited range forcing him into those scenarios makes his good frame data and power fall short.

So you're accusing him of being Little Mac 2.0, but even LM has tools to deal with shielding, namely dtilt and angled smash to apply safe pressure and even shield-break overcommitting, as well as being able to just shield pushback people or throw bait hits and transition into a 1-frame grab to leave almost no punish window..... so I don't even know where that'd put Fox.

I actually sort of agree he's not a strong as people thought he was, but at the same time there is no way I'm down for throwing him under the bus yet. He has a pretty strong grab game of his own to get him in and home, and being able to jab loop isn't even a gimmick; that's 200% practical since you can start if off of anything, and if they block your first jab pair, you continue the string and just end it in a grab and get free damage regardless.

As for just kinda brushing aside all Fox players... I'm not ready to call Megafox bad. I'm just not.

 

[meleebrawler]

With lasers being nearly useless in this game, Fox is forced to play close range, where the grab happy top tiers tend to prevail with guaranteed damage and kill setups. He has limited range and a linear recovery despite some decent power and good frame data.

He loses to shield and will eventually get grabbed and killed easily like everyone else.

Including the top tiers. Top tiers lose to top tiers.

Fox has ALWAYS been a close range fighter. Short-hopped lasers in past games except 64 only tacked
on token damage and nothing else (unlike Falco), they were only good for maintaining leads and stalling
coupled with his speed (this is one of the reasons Temple was banned in Melee).

He feels more like a Melee character than anyone else in 4, with Doc in second. His fast falling speed
coupled with auto-canceling sex kicks lets him pressure air-to ground in a way few characters can,
and his air punishes are nasty.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I think Fox is great. Not gonna lie, lasers aren't useless like people are saying. It's limited, but can do stuff in matchups like Ganon or Luigi as a "No. You come here" tool, which works until they're at mid range. That's... just about it. His f-tilt and f-throw are awesome setups if the opponent doesn't tech (which is hard at first since you don't get a lot of time to react). And his uptilt. I could go on and on about his up tilt. One of the coolest things about it is that it can combo into a SH Fair, which spikes them into the ground and sets up an f-tilt lock, which goes into whatever you want. His Bair autocancels, kills, and is sadly his only move safe on block. But it's still really good if spaced right. And double jab is EXTREMELY useful. Nair is safe for landings, combos into u smash, and is a combo breaker. Uair murders people.
Other than that, he's a light fast caller with a linear recovery. So personally, I don't prefer the air XD
And shine is a reflector now. So yeah, he's an above average character who does well onstage.

 

[Thinkaman]

Quick note: If anyone in the SF bay area wants to put my character impressions to the test, there is a low but non zero chance I can sneak away from GDC to make that happen. The Foundry is a possibility.

 

[Brinzy]

I think Zelda is worse, and contender for worst character in game.

As per usual.

 

[thehard]

Who's watching CT right now? Best Mario vs. Best Sonic. This is meta-defining!

 

[Vincent21]

Ended about as expected. Not disrespect to Ally because when you're breaking 150% before getitng them overly double digits. You gunna diiiie. Good games though.

This next game is the interesting one though.

 

[hey_there]

I think Fox is great. Not gonna lie, lasers aren't useless like people are saying. It's limited, but can do stuff in matchups like Ganon or Luigi as a "No. You come here" tool, which works until they're at mid range.

Small nitpick, but Luigi can just crawl under Fox's lasers.

 

[Genix]

Are the Pits high tier or is it just Nairo being amazing? He makes the Diddy MU look actually even.

 

[Vincent21]

That's why I said this is the interesting one; let's find out!

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Small nitpick, but Luigi can just crawl under Fox's lasers.

Oh yeaaaaaaah I forgot about that XD

 

[Nu~]

He just made M2K look easy to beat lol

 

[thehard]

Ended about as expected. Not disrespect to Ally because when you're breaking 150% before getitng them overly double digits. You gunna diiiie. Good games though.

This next game is the interesting one though.

Mario really seems to have trouble killing. I'd like to see Ally use FLUDD and Cape more (even though he used them more than I expected in the first place). But oh my god that was a great set. They just kept trading hits. Halberd combos and EE's commentary were the icing on the cake

Also Nairo!!!

 

[Vincent21]

@Nairo made a pretty good showing for a character I am frankly surprised wasn't already pegged as being good. Like let me just go on record as saying that recovery is absurd, having a ledge option select (hit electroshok or grab ledge) is pretty amazing, and Pit stacks damaaaaage.

Now what I'm wondering is how easy is Pit TRULY to punish? Because I saw what looked like opportunities, but Nairo was making the spododges and escapes that I thought end lag wouldn't let him. Is this character really that safe?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Are the Pits high tier or is it just Nairo being amazing? He makes the Diddy MU look actually even.

Just nairo being amazing similar to Ally.
Those two can play anyone and do well with them.

Think tournament before APEX nairo was busting out Zelda and beating abadango and... damn forgot the japanese sheik's name.

 

[Nu~]

Just nairo being amazing similar to Ally.
Those two can play anyone and do well with them.

Think tournament before APEX nairo was busting out Zelda and beating abadango and... damn forgot the japanese sheik's name.

Nietono

 

[Luco]

So anyone wanna talk about how there are no good Fox players and he isn't viable?

Whenever he's thought of, people tend to associate NAKAT with Ness, but he co-mains Fox too. I think it would be a rather large claim to tell me NAKAT isn't a 'good' fox player, but sure go ahead if you like.