Character Competitive Impressions

[yahooda]

Oh boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDikQiU9fC0

Very dumb, much ban.

Getting shot by a charged neutral b from Zero Suit Samus up close = K.O. It looks like it might be challenging to start the combo, so it shouldn't be too OP. Kinda like Ice Climber's chain grabs in Melee

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDikQiU9fC0

Very dumb, much ban.

Oh this.

Only works on Robin because for some reason when you footstool him some characters end up on the floor right away. Aka, it's a glitch with footstooling Robin, only reason this is possible.

 

[DonkeyStrong]

Luigi seems like the king of smash attacks, combo that with his throws and you got a powerhouse.

 

[Yonder]

Luigi seems like the king of smash attacks, combo that with his throws and you got a powerhouse.

I wouldn't waste time on anything else with him though

Not even his aerial combos and decent recovery?

His only really noteworthy smash attack is his still uber powerful up tilted F Smash. The other's are just decent. Aerials are where he's at, you're not playing Luigi otherwise.

 

[DonkeyStrong]

Not even his aerial combos and decent recovery?

His only really noteworthy smash attack is his still uber powerful up tilted F Smash. The other's are just decent. Aerials are where he's at, you're not playing Luigi otherwise.

would say the others are more than decent, but still testing

 

[Yonder]

would say the others are more than decent, but still testing

Up smash is nice for ending d throw to u tilt combos like Mario. Not too much use for down smash unless you do a walking sliding d smash...which is tough without a c stick atm.

 

[DairunCates]

Oh this.

Only works on Robin because for some reason when you footstool him some characters end up on the floor right away. Aka, it's a glitch with footstooling Robin, only reason this is possible.

So, basically what I'm hearing is that Robin players either need a pocket secondary for ZSS matchups or need to play a heavy aerial game against them.

 

[Life]

So, basically what I'd hearing is that Robin players either need a pocket secondary for ZSS matchups or need to play a heavy aerial game against them.

Yes (provided that air-heavy Robin is the best way to not get infinited). Nothing wrong with that. If you use suboptimal strategies (i.e. ones that allow your opponent to infinite you) you can expect suboptimal results.

 

[Mono.]

Despite Robin's capabilities I don't think he holds a candle to ZSS's air game so this doesn't look good matchup wise.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Huh, so I check out Lucario overall, he got a few nerfs in some areas. But he was buffed overall from Brawl.

His custom moves seems more situational and based on playstyle.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jigglypuff looks pretty busted. By busted, I mean stronger than Melee Jiggs.

Right so, she has the usual insane aerial spacing. Back air kills now. There's fewer combos out of throws to kill Jiggs. Jiggs got back legit Rest combos which kill at like 50%. On top of that, she can break shields in two hits with Pound + any other move.

 

[Cook]

I don't get the ZSS hype. She still has a ****ty grab in a game where shielding is op...

 

[andalsoandy]

Jigglypuff looks pretty busted. By busted, I mean stronger than Melee Jiggs.

Right so, she has the usual insane aerial spacing. Back air kills now. There's fewer combos out of throws to kill Jiggs. Jiggs got back legit Rest combos which kill at like 50%. On top of that, she can break shields in two hits with Pound + any other move.

Not to mention her amazing offstage game. She looks mad strong, especially with the Rest buff (primarily the larger hitbox)

 

[The Light Music Club]

Not to mention her amazing offstage game. She looks mad strong, especially with the Rest buff (primarily the larger hitbox)

Yeah the larger hitbox seems to be really helpful for her. I was almost level with her on stage playing against someone, and they just went into a short hop rest and killed me. I was stunned by how they were able to do that now. It's something people need to be more careful of. She'll be a top character once again I believe.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Custom movesets are going to be either outlawed or worked around for tournaments...

Pikachu seems somewhat nerfed. Perhaps I just haven't had a whole lot of opportunity with it, but the dair hitbox seems much smaller and less powerful, as does most of his smashes. Uair is still a diagonal spike though, akin to its earlier counterparts, so maybe he's just more balanced.

 

[TurtleLags]

I have been following the twitch streams of ct zero, mew2king, shofu, and many top players for hours straight these past few days. I kept tally of the win/loss ratios of each character and took notes of their battle styles. Here is a little bit of what I have gathered (please note that this is a work in progress):

Extremely good: Duck Hunt Dog and Bowser Jr (best to worst)
These characters have powerful projectiles that are capable of stunning/trapping/disrupting the opponent. Just about all their moves are useful and they can pile on damage and KO with relative ease.

Very good: Sonic, Bowser, Little Mac, Lucario, Jigglypuff (best to worst)
Sonic is so fast he is hard to touch, Bowser can KO characters that are only at 60%, and Little Mac racks up damage like a beast. I haven't seen Lucario get KO'd below 120% very often, which is scary bc he gets quicker/stronger as his dmg gets higher. Jigglypuff has been hitting that gym lately; she hits hard and fast.

I am on the fence regarding the rest of the characters. Some of the characters who I thought were bad, such as yoshi and rosalina/luma, started wrecking ppl recently. Looks like we won't have a meta knight-esque character this time around, which is super freaking awesome.

 

[Rayze]

Just like most other people in here I have been following a couple of Twitch streams. I've also read opinions on the characters by Japanese and known competitive players.

So far, Duck Hunt Dog, Zero Suit Samus and Bowser seem to make a particularly strong impression. Also making a solid impression are Captain Falcon, King Dedede, Rosalina, (Dark) Pit, Little Mac, Sheik and Greninja.
Villager, Kirby, Robin, Ness, Bowser Jr., Lucario, Mario, Donkey Kong and Yoshi look to be fairly potent, too.

The characters who are doing slightly disappointing are Mega Man, Zelda, Ike and Falco. However, even they have had some success (mainly Zelda), so the game appears to be quite balanced at this point.

 

[ChillySundance]

Falco is a weird one. The general consensus right now is that he's weak, and yet on Zero's stream they constantly talk about how his stage control and boxing game becomes incredibly scary once he gets a little bit of momentum.

 

[Shaya]

I would say that Falco is still very very good.
He's one of the few characters in Brawl who actually had aggressive game play capabilities. Just because his campy / zoning / run away game has been nerfed in a game where the entire brawl cast has been culled in similar capabilities, while mostly being untouched elsewhere doesn't make him an underwhelming character.
Falco's chain grabs are routinely seen as amazing, whilst most high/top tiers share similar if not stronger capabilities in free damage. Olimar isn't grabbing you at 0% for 60% in a match up where you die at 90% in this game either. Diddy's bananas aren't giving him 40%+ every time he trips you. No one has a tech chase grab (that I've seen?) that gives a minimum free 30% each time and can be continued in a 50/50 (yomi) fashion for 10%+ on every attempt and is also a kill set up. Wario isn't chain grabbing you from 50-150% and getting a free waft timer while he does so. etc etc etc. FREE DAMAGE like in BRAWL is pretty much DEAD.

I think custom specials will benefit him a lot, if they become/remain tournament standard.

Falco's jab was probably the best single normal (non-special) in Brawl. It's still an amazing move.
Falco's dash attack was in my opinion (and the same of many others, the alternative choice being Snake's) the best in Brawl, and it has not been nerfed from what I see. A 5-ish frame move that combos well at every percent, is a dominant out of shield/dash option and keeps him off the ground to avoid footsies (just like his jab). Great damage, great follow ups, a consistent and overwhelmingly powerful punishment option he retains from Brawl.
These two moves are godlike. Beyond godlike. And at top level they will most likely remain godlike.
Forward tilt has some ramp up now but seems to have even longer range, also one of the best normals in the series's history.

This character's base boxing ability is beyond the rest of the cast by Brawl standards, and is likely the same here, perhaps vying for the spot along with Little Mac, Fox and Sheik.

With defensive options nerfed and combos more consistent, Falco's only weakness that I can perceive is getting the kill. He will otherwise be able to close range pressure and ramp up damage consistently better than a majority of the cast in this game. I think his match ups with heavies (an early metagame goliath archetype) will be very strong but still challenging (he can probably get 150% before they can get 80%, but they kill at 80% and Falco may still struggle).

His shine has been buffed.

I could say that at worst he would be relegated to where Sheik was in Brawl. Avoiding match up specifics (death grabs) only suffered in her inability to kill. Still potent in the right hands on anyone able to take a minor disadvantage across the board (which I don't think will be the case for Falco).

 

[Thinkaman]

Also, keep in mind the huuuuuge recovery buff that Fox and Falco got.

The ability to jump out of side-b is incredibly useful. They were clearly insane; who on earth thought that was a good idea?

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Also, keep in mind the huuuuuge recovery buff that Fox and Falco got.

The ability to jump out of side-b is incredibly useful. They were clearly insane; who on earth thought that was a good idea?

The same people who think Ike's Side-B should still leave you in free fall, apparently. :/

 

[A2ZOMG]

The same people who think Ike's Side-B should still leave you in free fall, apparently. :/

You can act out of Ike's SideB in the air IF it connects.

 

[Shog]

Btw I have to ask it here in competitive: Why aren't people reading the "purple" tips? For example, I read stuff like Shield Sliding(If you get attacked while you shield you can slide left or right in your shield) or if you turnaround in a dash your grab has more range. I am not sure if this is known but the tips section in general mentiones a lot of techs.

 

[Egg-Off the Conquerer]

Something I'm surprised I don't see mentioned here very often is, due to the very low kill ceiling and the very far blast zones and overall good recoveries, how advantaged characters with a hard, upward-hitting aerial. This includes ZSS (up-b) and Bowser (Uair) but also characters like Yoshi, Peach, Robin, Dedede and several others that I am not thinking of. This is one of the many reasons that I think that ZSS will be, if not one of, the best character in this game.

Also, side note- what's the ruling on Bowser's side-b? I use it online sometimes to beat a guy who keeps taunting me. If you're both at one stock, Bowser wins because the opponent dies first. In actual tournaments what is the ruling?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Something I'm surprised I don't see mentioned here very often is, due to the very low kill ceiling and the very far blast zones and overall good recoveries, how advantaged characters with a hard, upward-hitting aerial. This includes ZSS (up-b) and Bowser (Uair) but also characters like Yoshi, Peach, Robin, Dedede and several others that I am not thinking of. This is one of the many reasons that I think that ZSS will be, if not one of, the best character in this game.

Also, side note- what's the ruling on Bowser's side-b? I use it online sometimes to beat a guy who keeps taunting me. If you're both at one stock, Bowser wins because the opponent dies first. In actual tournaments what is the ruling?

If the mechanics are consistent (Bowser ALWAYS wins by the game's ruling), tournaments will just use that. Tournaments had special rules for this situation in Brawl since it wasn't actually consistent (depended on controller ports, was incredibly dumb), but hopefully this won't be necessary in smash 4.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

You can act out of Ike's SideB in the air IF it connects.

The "if it connects" being the lame part when Fox and Falco can just do it no matter what now. That's how it should be IMO.

 

[Phyr]

Btw I have to ask it here in competitive: Why aren't people reading the "purple" tips? For example, I read stuff like Shield Sliding(If you get attacked while you shield you can slide left or right in your shield) or if you turnaround in a dash your grab has more range. I am not sure if this is known but the tips section in general mentiones a lot of techs.

That is Smash Di on shield and pivot grabbing respectively. It's good to see som many techs being mentioned in the tips.

 

[Knowwuh]

Looking forward to hearing more individuals' analyses of the characters now that the demo is out in the West!

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/513012276857933824

 

[MrDrJacob]

A lot of the Original 12 seem to play a lot like they did back on Smash 64 with just a lot of updates to accommodate for 15 years of technical advancements. Lots of easy combos from Mario and Kirby from what I've seen.

 

[Yonder]

Regarding custom moves in competitive play, I think the best implication of them would be to let all characters low tier and below have access to them to make them more viable in high competitive play. Because in general, the custom moves are superior in this game to the normal moves.

[I'd also love to use easy uppercuts and straight missile with Luigi...heh.]

 

[The Light Music Club]

I don't know if this was mentioned or not but I tried it with the demo. Japanese and US 3DS systems can play each other! So tournaments for competitive players world wide they can fight each other:

No lag at all, I input on my black 3DS and watched it on my white screen.

 

[micstar615]

I don't know if this was mentioned or not but I tried it with the demo. Japanese and US 3DS systems can play each other! So tournaments for competitive players world wide they can fight each other:

No lag at all, I input on my black 3DS and watched it on my white screen.

Loving the Oreos in the background xP

 

[Yonder]

Have any characters in this game been noted to be "unviable" so far from impressions? The only characters I hear that are "bad" are Mega Man and Mac [Only in NA]. Even then they aren't terrible. What I like about SSB4 is that no one so far seems to be gamebreakingly uber [MK Brawl] or painfully unusable [Ganondorf Brawl]. Everyone can have a decent shot against anyone so far it appears.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Loving the Oreos in the background xP

Yeah, I keep them on my desk while I'm playing haha.

Have any characters in this game been noted to be "unviable" so far from impressions? The only characters I hear that are "bad" are Mega Man and Mac [Only in NA]. Even then they aren't terrible. What I like about SSB4 is that no one so far seems to be gamebreakingly uber [MK Brawl] or painfully unusable [Ganondorf Brawl]. Everyone can have a decent shot against anyone so far it appears.

Mac isn't very good. I've fought a few of them, and basically all you need to do is get him off stage and he can't recover. Since he's small and fast he isn't that heavy so it isn't the hardest thing to do. Don't get me wrong, he can still be a good character (any character can be). So yeah, after all I've played (I think I have about 200 some matches online?) I would not saying any character is very very bad or very very good. Which makes this game pretty good. The main character I have trouble with however, is easily Rosalina. I think they are harder to fight than the Ice Climbers since it's easier to control Luma when it's apart unlike Nana.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Have any characters in this game been noted to be "unviable" so far from impressions? The only characters I hear that are "bad" are Mega Man and Mac [Only in NA]. Even then they aren't terrible. What I like about SSB4 is that no one so far seems to be gamebreakingly uber [MK Brawl] or painfully unusable [Ganondorf Brawl]. Everyone can have a decent shot against anyone so far it appears.

I think that there are characters who seem like they could definitely be "better" than others, but I definitely agree that there hasn't been any showing of any particularly huge "gap" between characters that renders one entirely broken or entirely unviable. The game balance is something that I'm super impressed with so far. If I had to choose one "unviable" character, it might be Mega Man? I don't really want to say that either, since I still don't think he looks entirely worthless at all.

 

[Shaya]

I don't know if this was mentioned or not but I tried it with the demo. Japanese and US 3DS systems can play each other! So tournaments for competitive players world wide they can fight each other:

No lag at all, I input on my black 3DS and watched it on my white screen.

I think the "truth" brought up was (btw this conversation is off-topic so I'll move it if people continue on about it) that you can't do local connections between different regions, you had to use netplay? This means tournament venues need a good internet connection available for everyone to cover multiple 3DS regions participating.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I think the "truth" brought up was (btw this conversation is off-topic so I'll move it if people continue on about it) that you can't do local connections between different regions, you had to use netplay? This means tournament venues need a good internet connection available for everyone to cover multiple 3DS regions participating.

Where exactly should I put this convo then? And no, I used local play.

Koopa Jr. is a hard matchup for me, he has seriously good range, and I'm surprised I haven't seen many people talk about him.

 

[Shaya]

Don't worry about it But either way, that's a good thing actually, and now I regret not finding myself a japanese 3ds prior to release. A thread in the 3DS general may be sufficient, but that's cool to know, thank you (I'm assuming it'll just become common knowledge soon enough).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Koopa Jr. has extremely unusual moves and I find it difficult to KO with him due to strange smash attacks and unreliable aerials.

 

[mimgrim]

Mac isn't very good. I've fought a few of them, and basically all you need to do is get him off stage and he can't recover. Since he's small and fast he isn't that heavy so it isn't the hardest thing to do. Don't get me wrong, he can still be a good character (any character can be). So yeah, after all I've played (I think I have about 200 some matches online?) I would not saying any character is very very bad or very very good. Which makes this game pretty good. The main character I have trouble with however, is easily Rosalina. I think they are harder to fight than the Ice Climbers since it's easier to control Luma when it's apart unlike Nana.

Bad offstage game can be countered with a good onstage game. Examples; Melee/Project M Falco, Brawl Olimar, among a few others. Especially Melee/PM Falco, he's on the light side as well and doesn't have super speedy movement, and he is especially hard to get offstage because of his fantastic onstage game (best onstage game in Melee and probably PM). So as long as Mac has a good onstage game, which is looking to be the case from I can tell, his bad offstage game will not hamper him too much.

I don't know if this was mentioned or not but I tried it with the demo. Japanese and US 3DS systems can play each other! So tournaments for competitive players world wide they can fight each other:

Bit off topic but...

I knew that actually! The person who gave me one of his codes for them Smash 3DS USA demo played against me locally from his full Japanese version of the game once I got it downloaded.