Character Competitive Impressions

[mimgrim]

ZSS is being overrated something fierce in all honesty. She still has all the same problems she had in Brawl along with having more nerfs then she does buffs which in turn creates a few new problems for her.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I notice you listed Lucina but not Marth, is there any reason behind that decision? Also while I don't know enough about each of those characters to have a real opinion on them yet I think your list could be right as I can't seem them being top/high tier either.

Honestly besides Sheik, MAYBE little mac, de3, boswer, jigglypuff(?) and zero suit(?) I don't know of any other character that I would be willing to put into the same tier. I would love to put Captain Falcon up there but I feel he's much worst then Sheik but much better then everyone you already listed.

Edit: Here's the real question, is there anyone even close as good as sheik right now? I'm bias so I want to say she a tier above everyone currently

Once you master Lucina you just move on to Marth.

Marth tippers you at 100% thats gg. You are a dead man. Lucina doesnt have that.

 

[The Real Gamer]

ZSS is being overrated something fierce in all honesty. She still has all the same problems she had in Brawl along with having more nerfs then she does buffs which in turn creates a few new problems for her.

And yet despite the problems she had in Brawl she was still a top 10 character.

Regardless people are performing very well with her in the early stages which is all I'm going by at this point. Even if she isn't a top tier she'll likely end up being very good in this game since her overall tool set still seems solid.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I notice you listed Lucina but not Marth, is there any reason behind that decision?

Once you master Lucina you just move on to Marth.

Marth tippers you at 100% thats gg. You are a dead man. Lucina doesnt have that.

This.

Marth's tippers clearly quality as an "oustanding trait". Imagine Brawl Marth without his tipper - he'd be nowhere near as powerful as he turned out to be. One quality that set the likes of Mikeneko, Leon and Mr-R apart from the ordinary Marth players was their ability to get in their tippered smashes and aerials for some early kill swag.

 

[mimgrim]

Saying top 10 is on the misleading side. I could say the same about Dr. Mario in Melee. Doesn't suddenly make him great. She may be in the top 10 of Brawl but that doesn't make her on the level of a top tier, her problems where what kept her from being a top tier. And now she has more problems added onto her.

Not saying she's bad. Just saying she is being overrated.

 

[Emblem Lord]

She is overrated. Doesn't mean shes not top tier.

Marth is super overrated in Brawl too. But then you look at his consistent tourney results and....well, you kind of have to just keep your mouth shut.

She has all the tools to succeed in the current meta. I say current because who knows what will happen a year from now. But right now...I do consider her the queen of Smash 4.

Also Bowser is overrated in Smash 4. But not like ZSS. He's rightfully overrated. I firmly believe he well have several counter match-ups as the meta pushes forward.

 

[Kef]

Also Bowser is overrated in Smash 4. But not like ZSS. He's rightfully overrated. I firmly believe he well have several counter match-ups as the meta pushes forward.

Not saying that Bowser is not the best or great because I don't want to get into that, but Bowser is the perfect example of a "scrub killing" character.

These type of characters have high damage (percent) output and can turn matches around by winning a couple of scrambles during a match. This is really common in many different fighting games. Sometimes they have armored moves, maybe some high damage moves, maybe some long/strong pokes, etc. These characters don't necessarily end up being good/bad later on, but they definitively thrive on the inexperience and lack of a more refined gameplan of EVERY player when a first game releases.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No kidding, DHD ****ing MURDERS Bowser.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Link:
Hylian Shield stays up for all of his idle poses. Stays up for his full-speed walk now, too. Defensive collision is absolutely massive. He doesn't get pushed back by projectiles on the Hylian Shield anymore, instead just pausing briefly to bump them away. Explosions from projectiles are now blocked by the Hylian Shield as well, even if the projectile does not hit directly. This includes things like Bob-ombs, Bombchus, or a Crash Bomber that sneaks past your shield and hits the front of your body.

NAir, FAir, and BAir are literally lagless it seems like. DAir's Meteor Smash is super powerful and pretty easy to land. And as long as you hit the foe, even if you whiff the meteor, your recovery is pretty much safe thanks to new ledge mechanics and the fact that it pogos whether it meteors or not. Also, even if you miss completely you can recover as long as you don't fast-fall, but the opponent gets an opportunity to edge-guard you then. FAir seems to occasionally have kill power if you can land it offstage, but I'm not sure if the two hits have different power, or there's a sweetspot, or what. BAir feels like it has more range and is much faster.

Short hop-fast fall NAir is a great approach tool. On lower-percent foes, the weak hit combos into jab or grab. In fact, against low-percent foes you can get a grab off of the weak NAir hit whether the foe shields it or not.

FSmash's first hit has a tipper or something. Depending on how you land it, it can sometimes combo into the second hit, and sometimes serves as a fairly powerful launching hit itself. The second hit is now crazy powerful.

USmash has actual kill power now, but the opponent can fall out of it if you don't land it right.

New Dash Attack is great for reading rolls, and that tipper makes it pretty great coupled with its seemingly low endlag. Very hefty startup time though. Super late edit: From what I've seen, the move seems safe on shield if you land the tipper, unless the opponent has a tether grab.

Bombs are super awesome now, since you can toss them in close-quarters and as long as you hit a foe (even if it hits their shield), it won't damage you at all. Also, they have a bigger blast radius and more knockback with pretty substantial hitstun, which makes them more useful overall.

Boomerang is amazing. It's like the Melee boomerang, except you can also use the windbox to pull foes in or shove them away with proper positioning. I like throwing a boomerang, then catching the foe in a jab combo only to have the boomerang drag them back into another jab combo.

First jab seems to occasionally true combo into the Spin Attack, but not always. No idea why/why not.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I think that DHD will be strong, but is also going to have big problems facing rushdown characters or characters that can keep him off the ground. His projectiles seem incredibly effective at zoning larger and more immobile characters, but every match I've seen between DHD and someone like Sheik or ZSS has been pretty one-sided against him.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

so if im not allowed to post a tier list, can I post an impression list instead?

I think that Lucina and Marth will be very good characters this game despite many people thinking they were nerfed. The feel the same except it actually requires effort to tip with Marth now (which is why I think Lucina is better)

 

[A2ZOMG]

ZSS is being overrated something fierce in all honesty. She still has all the same problems she had in Brawl along with having more nerfs then she does buffs which in turn creates a few new problems for her.

What nerfs again?

She has a better ground game, which was her PRIMARY weakness. Grab is actually usable, frame traps are still dumb. F-smash, Dash Attack, and Jab are all CONSIDERABLY better. Recovery for some inexplicable reason was buffed. ZSS is also one of few characters who is able to kill you relatively easily from air juggles due to her aerials all being strong and because her Up-B is also a good followup tool to carry people to the ceiling.

She also has the best overall mobility in the game. Runs fast and moves in the air extremely fast as well, which makes her difficult to trap.

Right so maybe her aerials don't kill QUITE as early as they used to. Big whoop. Character has one of the strongest neutral games and is also really hard to lock down or gimp.

 

[Acton]

A lot of people keep talking about falco being nerfed, but I think everyone should watch this video before they say falco is no longer viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurOrl2liFg

My impressions is he's good in the hands of an aggressive players. He's like little mac, but with good recovery. For me it's refreshing to play a character that's right in your face all the time! Also upthrow > uair is a thing for him now. From what I've seen his dtilt combos into a lot of things, like nair and fair(?).

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Marth's tipped moves are sooooooo good in this game. An offstage tipped b-air is gonna take care of that blast zone problem.

The grabs are great for tossing people offstage as well.

People are seriously under rating Marth and Lucina. EL is right, prepare yourselves.

 

[Shaya]

so if im not allowed to post a tier list, can I post an impression list instead?

I think that Lucina and Marth will be very good characters this game despite many people thinking they were nerfed. The feel the same except it actually requires effort to tip with Marth now (which is why I think Lucina is better)

I have no issues with a list of impressions? lol

I disallow tier lists because people are inherently bad at making them. You can describe/give the impression someone is good, bad, could be good, could be bad. You don't need to make distinctive groupings because you know your opinions are way too fallible to make such claims otherwise. The fact that how people respond to them "you're wrong: MY OPINION > your opinion" is reason enough to keep the place free of them to avoid that filth :>


You think the effort to tip with Marth was minimal? That seems bizarre. Aerials were one thing, but even then your ability to control the space required to get tippers needed you to be as good or better than your opponent.

From what we've seen the character differences are minimal, but as I've said multiple times already, the fact Marth is killing at 100% or less with tippers is separating him from her by a large margin. Her "consistency" could very well come out on top in some match ups (maybe where priority is concerned, Lucina's entire sword clashing/beating moves rather than Marth requiring tips could mean something somewhere), and likely will also in doubles.

Marth is super overrated in Brawl too. But then you look at his consistent tourney results and....well, you kind of have to just keep your mouth shut.

A jack of all trades character / "no definitive weakness" in design may have caused hysteria in terms of over-hyping him for a very long time. People came to vehemently deny Marth's strengths based off bad theory crafters (god help us for this generation) from the past. Not specifically losing to anyone is a pretty good trait (doesn't mean he doesn't lose match ups, just means he's not inherently "****ed" against anyone). RCO was an engine fault nerf that hurt him a lot, while all the free grab combos on a significant portion of the cast buffed his capabilities in match ups significantly. On his overall design/capabilities, yeah he's overrated in Brawl in terms of 'reward' [ain't got nothing on ICs grab or shuttle loop I'll admit] but an extremely consistent punisher in a game about outplaying in neutral and punishing made Marth very viable - remember it was you coined that dancing blade is the best move in the game!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ill post impressions later

also i meant comparitively, im having trouble tipping standing targets in training mode...

 

[mimgrim]

What nerfs again?

She has a better ground game, which was her PRIMARY weakness. Grab is actually usable, frame traps are still dumb. F-smash, Dash Attack, and Jab are all CONSIDERABLY better. Recovery for some inexplicable reason was buffed. ZSS is also one of few characters who is able to kill you relatively easily from air juggles due to her aerials all being strong and because her Up-B is also a good followup tool to carry people to the ceiling.

She also has the best overall mobility in the game. Runs fast and moves in the air extremely fast as well, which makes her difficult to trap.

Right so maybe her aerials don't kill QUITE as early as they used to. Big whoop. Character has one of the strongest neutral games and is also really hard to lock down or gimp.

Grab has less range, Dtilt was made worse, Dsmash is worse, aerials are largely worse, Plasma Whip (Sspecial) is worse, Jab is slower, dash attack is worse, throws are generally less good as well.

compared to;

Faster grab, Jab can now finish on every character, Fsmash being better, Zair, Dspecial is a bit safer, and overall better recovery.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Grab has less range, Dtilt was made worse, Dsmash is worse, aerials are largely worse, Plasma Whip (Sspecial) is worse, Jab is slower, dash attack is worse, throws are generally less good as well.

compared to;

Faster grab, Jab can now finish on every character, Fsmash being better, Zair, Dspecial is a bit safer, and overall better recovery.

Grab having less range don't matter when it's range is not only still good, the grab itself is viable and not Falcon Punchable on reaction.

ZSS Jab is still fast, and has good range. Being marginally slower is not a big deal when the move itself establishes much better positional advantage.

D-smash is the same wtf, unless they nerfed damage or something. Still does the same nonsense. Safe on block, converts into combos, good hitbox.

Aerials still have good hitboxes, speed, and damage, slightly less knockback. Her aerials are still among the best in the game overall.

Side Special doesn't kill. Not a big deal when the move is pretty slow in the first place and when you already had Paralyzer.

Keep in mind everyone's throws got nerfed in this game. The fact ZSS still has GOOD followups from D-throw is actually really huge.

Basically the ZSS nerfs you're citing are all EXTREMELY MINOR NONSENSE that don't actually make her gameplan worse. In contrast, the buffs that ZSS got are REALLY HUGE in terms of the options she is able to cover reliably. You have to now respect ZSS's grab, crouching and shielding is nowhere nearly as effective against ZSS in this game, and overall she still is retardedly safe on block and really good at capitalizing on you when you're in a bad position.

 

[Cuccu Maestro]

Brawl ZSS jab came out frame 1, one of the fastest moves in the game. Underplaying that is pretty dumb. In general, you aren't really counterpointing anything mimgrim said you're just saying 'whatever it's still good!' and sidestepping the actual talking point which is whether ZSS has sustained nerfs or not. She clearly has, and pointing to her buffs doesn't magically make her nerfs go away.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Falco is ok. Laser nerf hurt, but that dat jab though. Dat f-tilt though. That phantasm to reset to neutral though.

HANDS OFF MY BREAD THOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Brawl ZSS jab came out frame 1, one of the fastest moves in the game. Underplaying that is pretty dumb. In general, you aren't really counterpointing anything mimgrim said you're just saying 'whatever it's still good!' and sidestepping the actual talking point which is whether ZSS has sustained nerfs or not. She clearly has, and pointing to her buffs doesn't magically make her nerfs go away.

How do ZSS's nerfs make her gameplan blatantly worse? Where does ZSS magically lose her control options and setups?

Having a slower Jab doesn't make it much worse when it's STILL fast, still has good range, and more importantly establishes positional advantage MUCH better than the previous Jab. And when you STILL have BS shield pressure. What punishes and options are you missing out by not having a 1 frame Jab? Especially when your previous Jab only just put you back in Neutral at best except against floaty characters.


So in short, her nerfs are in fact extremely minor and inconsequential to the gameplan and bigger picture. And in contrast, the buffs she received filled the holes in her game and removed her most significant weaknesses.

Now Metaknight is a character with real nerfs that actually affect his gameplan. No longer beats the entire cast for free in footsies when tilts have shorter range and when Nado is less reliable outside of really close range.

You can't argue that's the case for ZSS though. Her pressure and spacing is still there, rather it got BETTER and harder to defend against in terms of options that ZSS is able to cover safely. Her capitalization options are still there, only it takes slightly longer for her to KO you under most circumstances. And ZSS still has her ******** MOBILITY and recovery.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

After watching Nietono play a couple of times I can definitely see high-tier potential for Greninja. Water Shuriken looks like a very useful projectile to create all kinds of openings that Geninja can exploit really well with its high mobility. Since Greninja's dash is way faster than the movement of the Shuriken it can pressure opponents pretty safely, giving it a lot of potential to become one of the game's strongest rushdown characters. Sheik with her combos and needles and Little Mac with his KO Power and massive SA frames are currently the strongest rivals of Greninja for that title in my book.

 

[DrakeRowan]

I ended up changing my opinion on a lot of characters

Bowser is good, but he's been suffering against camp/zone heavy characters lately.
DHD has also been having tough times against characters that easily do away with projectiles.
My opinions on Palutena have raised considerably. Her constant teleporting game can get quite annoying. She also has tools which can effortlessly deal with the characters who I think are the stronger ones.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

The melee top four seem to be making a comeback in this game. Marth, sheik, fox, and falco all look decent/good. Marth and sheik especially.

Falco and fox are just different now. Falco seems like he's in a boxing ring but it yields some great results. His aerials are good too compared to the rest of the cast. All that's left for him is a reliable kill option.

Also, Greninja's overall mobility seems amazing. I see some high tier potential here.

 

[mimgrim]

D-smash has less follow-ups you can do with it. Less damage. Less range. Doesn't move her forward. And is in actuality not safe on shield anymore. A 1-frame jab to a 2 or 3 frame jab is a bigger deal then you give it credit for. Again, her aerial game is overall worse. Plasma Whip not kill is a pretty big deal considering it was a good option for her to use to kill before.

She is worse on the shield, her punish not as good anymore, less kill potential, overall slower then she was, and dose less damage. She's still the same type of character she was in Brawl... Just worse.

She has good mobility. Ok. That can go a long way sure, but even in Brawl it wasn't enough to make her top tier because of the unsafe stuff she has.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'm interested in how the metagame for team battles will form. I don't think we will know much about that though until the US version comes out.

 

[HeavyLobster]

The melee top four seem to be making a comeback in this game. Marth, sheik, fox, and falco all look decent/good. Marth and sheik especially.

If we count Puff that makes 5. She's stupidly good at killing and is once more a glass cannon instead of just glass. Don't know about whether Peach or Falcon are good though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-smash has less follow-ups you can do with it. Less damage. Less range. Doesn't move her forward. And is in actuality not safe on shield anymore. A 1-frame jab to a 2 or 3 frame jab is a bigger deal then you give it credit for. Again, her aerial game is overall worse. Plasma Whip not kill is a pretty big deal considering it was a good option for her to use to kill before.

She is worse on the shield, her punish not as good anymore, less kill potential, overall slower then she was, and dose less damage. She's still the same type of character she was in Brawl... Just worse.

She has good mobility. Ok. That can go a long way sure, but even in Brawl it wasn't enough to make her top tier because of the unsafe stuff she has.

ZSS also has a viable grab and more hitboxes that aren't trolled by crouch shielding. And she crushes the majority of the cast in footsies, where MOST IMPORTANTLY she's stronger than she was in Brawl with buffs to moves like F-smash, Dash Attack, and Jab and because let's be real, D-smash and Paralyzer are still stupid good.

I'm not seeing where you get that D-smash is unsafe on block and doesn't allow really safe pressure opportunities. Really, I'm not seeing it period. If you just need to space it outside of shieldgrab range, the move is effectively the same thing it's always been. Still puts you in a strong position to dominate footsies, which is the emphasis of this game.

I refuse to agree with you that ZSS gaining a frame or 2 of startup on her Jab actually matters unless you have clear, common, practical examples of situations where you lost punish options that CLEARLY influence matchups. Which you probably don't given you refused to explain. The difference between a 1 and 2 frame Jab punishing something in spacing and on block is EXTREMELY minor in Smash when you consider general frame windows for how things work (most important frame windows in Smash are generally speaking REALLY HUGE minus things that are mostly ATs). It's not even like Melee Shine where not only was it 1 frame, it was invincible and converted into a massive advantage on hit and block. ZSS Jab really only just resets the situation in Brawl.

I've already stated, ZSS's air game isn't really worse. Yes, she doesn't kill you as early with aerials as she did in Brawl, but most of the cast got worse at KOing anyway. She still has massive hitboxes, mobility, followups, and she STILL CAN KILL YOU off juggles earlier than most of the cast.

Plasma Whip was an extremely unreliable KO move, and still isn't by any means a reliable move outside of safe long ranged pressure outside of your optimal footsies range. You are overstating the actual usefulness of the move by claiming its loss in KO power actually is a big deal, when it's something you couldn't count on in the first place.

ZSS got some minor damage/knockback reductions on a few moves that are comparable to what PRACTICALLY EVERYONE RECEIVED and don't make her game any less complete. The buffs to her grab, Jab, Dash Attack, and F-smash more than make up for the losses by actually filling holes in her game, meaning she has more tools and setups overall than she did before. And in a game where edgetrapping and landtrapping is huge, ZSS is very difficult to trap.

In short, ZSS in this game is really safe and strong in footsies, has the best mobility in the game, has strong conversion/followup, is incredibly hard to capitalize on in negative state, and there are very few situations and ranges where she isn't able to threaten you and limit your options.

Brawl ZSS was also mostly safe in footsies and had good conversion/followup, but most importantly she lost a ton of options when you crouched and shielded especially since grabbing was virtually never worth the risk. There were also way more broken characters in that game with superior mobility/reset options, but they all got nerfed and lost options. In SSB4, ZSS is probably overall the hardest character in the game to pin down.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I shared my thoughts on Peach, her changes and how she can be played. So if anyone is interested in finding out more about her, check out this right up I made on her.

http://smashboards.com/threads/competitive-peach-guide-rundown-3ds-updated-9-19-2014.368094/

 

[Balloonicorn]

Since it's all speculation, this is my thoughts and impressions on the current "top 10". This is very subject to change and is largely based on collective opinions of others, my own impressions based on gameplay and preliminary high level footage as well as trends from past games (admittedly the jump from Brawl to 4 is not as wide as the jump from Melee to Brawl so characters who would have been strong in Brawl should logically be strong in 4). This is in no particular order.

Shiek: fast, powerful, one of the best projectiles in the game. What were they thinking when they made this character. She doesn't seem to sacrifice a lot of kill power for her agility and has amazing recovery with the bouncing fish and vanish.
Zero Suit Samus: Similar to Shiek, extremely fast and agile without sacrificing too much kill power. Might be slightly overrated because she is somewhat light and not that strong.
Bowser: I personally think Bowser is overrated. He's good but his huge size might end up making him combo food as people learn matchups a bit more. He also seems to have pretty difficult counters from strong zoners like Robin and Duck Hunt. His overwhelming power and buffed up speed might make up for this and allow him to maintain a top spot though.
Rosalina: I wasn't initially impressed with Rosalina but watching some streams, it's clear she has a lot of potential to tap into. When she was initially revealed, many speculated that she would be an extremely high skill cap but very rewarding character. This looks to be the case. Her innate flaws might hold her back from the absolute top echelons though (she's somewhat slow, pretty light weight while having huge hitboxes, weak moves without proper Luma setups and coordination)
Little Mac: Mac is an interesting character. After learning about his huge obvious flaw, it was easy to see him as an absolutely horrible character- knock him around a little bit and he can't come back. However, similarly to Mega Man, he looks to have a very non-standard ideal playstyle. Extremely polarized characters end up being very bad or very good and I do believe a properly played Mac has potential to be a top contender. He has plenty of amazing tools such as his shield ignoring KO punch and his ability to bypass projectiles.
Duck Hunt: The zoning game is strong. He has potential to be top but I can see him not being as good as we think if his zoning ends up being surmountable. It's been looking pretty solid so we'll have to see. He won't end up being any lower than A tier though is my prediction.
Robin: People speculated very early that Robin would be among the top characters. While his/her faults are more pronounced now that the game has been played (bad range with bronze sword, awkward hitboxes, exploitable weakness in the weapon erosion mechanic), overall Robin's gameplay is looking very solid. Robin has a very solid projectile game and strong hitboxes with the Levin sword. The cooldowns on his spells and levin sword are short enough to where they are somewhat spammable with the exception of nosferatu. I believe Nosferatu and Arcfire will be two defining moves- Arcfire is already used a ton amongst Robin players for easy setups but Nosferatu is not and understandably so as it's hard to hit. The difficulty of landing Nosferatu I believe will separate the good Robins from the great Robins in a similar fashion to Jigglypuff's rest so as people get better I believe Robin will have a place in the higher tiers as a high skill cap character.
Bowser Jr. : I believe Bowser Jr. is a strong solid character but barely makes it as a top 10 fighter. He is very unique, even moreso than other fighters due to his unique hitbox mechanic. I believe this will give him some very good or very bad matchups, we'll have to see how exploitable this ends up being for the Jr. player and his opponent (although probably strong ground games will have a disadvantage and strong air games will have an advantage against Jr.). Other than that he has very clear and defined strengths- lots of high power attacks in both the air and the ground and a pretty good zoning game with the Mechakoopas and cannonballs giving him decent stage control. The side B looks to be very versatile for both recovery and approach and has very consistent follow ups. I'm looking forward to see how he's used in the metagame.
Greninja: I have to admit, the japanese tournament that occurred recently heavily shifted my view of Greninja. Before then he didn't seem to be all that popular- scarcely talked about and not very frequently played. To me this just further shows that all the speculation we do could be wrong just as well as it could be accurate. Greninja has a ton of useful tools; he's fast, has a good projectile and strong disjointed hitboxes. He also has some neat tricks with hydro pump. I also believe Shadow sneak could be used to some effectiveness but it looks hard to tell as the move seems rather slow.

Meta Knight: Meta Knight has an innately powerful kit- that is, as long as they don't completely gut him, he will always be relevant due to how he works. Yes, he was nerfed from his #1 throne in brawl but he was still left largely intact with good hitboxes, fast moves (although toned down slightly), extremely versatile recovery options (still has those 5 jumps and 4 recovery specials) so I believe he will still be a top contender. Meta Knight seems to have improved kill power in some of his moves like dimensional cape as well.

Other characters I think could be top 10: ,, (she will be very good if custom moves are allowed- some of her custom specials like angelic missile, celestial firework and explosive flare are very good moves and I strongly believe that her default set of customs are holding her back),,,
All in all, we have the makings of an amazing and diverse metagame where counterpicks are more prevalent opening the doors for viability in a lot more characters. While the nature of such a large roster prevents every character from being competitively viable , it's the hard truth that any game with varying characters will have some bet better than others.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'd give the nod to ZSS over Shiek due to having superior options to get back to neutral state (better recovery, more air mobility).

Also Jiggs is being slept on (pun not intended). Super strong air mobility and viable shield break options combined with strong KO options? Char is REALLY strong.

 

[san.]

Spacing characters are going to be underutilized until we can get our hands on the Wii U version I believe.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

RT to the above. Marth mains are having difficulty spacing consistently with the circle pad and the small screen. While the circle pad is actually pretty precise, it's still a bit difficult to land those tips. Additionally, Marth needs a C-Stick for defensive play.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

@ Balloonicorn : Duck Hunt's camping game is almost completely nullified by Zelda's Farore's Wind. While Duck Hunt can normally hang out off to the side and abuse his comparatively wide arsenal of projectiles, Farore's Wind is fast enough to be able to punish him the instant he fires any projectile. A properly-placed Farore's Wind takes Duck Hunt from camping at one side of the platform to being caught in the air offstage, with Zelda occupying the spot where he used to be standing. Being caught in the air offstage while Zelda has a platform to work with is a bad position for many characters (pretty much everyone lacking a counter, reflector, and/or intangible/super armoured aerial approach), and Duck Hunt especially doesn't like this position because of his recovery move's general inflexibility. Duck Jump and Duck Jump Snag are slow to ascend, with Duck Jump Snag having limited horizontal range on its attack. This makes it easy for Zelda to hit Duck Hunt with her sweetspotted aerials, especially DAir as Duck Jump Snag has no hitbox overhead. Super Duck Jump is better in that it makes FAir, BAir, and NAir a no-go as long as Duck Hunt recovers low, but it's still likely an easy target for Zelda's DAir, since in Smash 4 it seems to have longer duration like Ganondorf's Thunder Stomp. This will especially be the case once the Wii U version comes out and the Zelda player has a C-Stick to work with, making it easier to pull out aerials regardless of current movement direction.

 

[TL?]

I'd give the nod to ZSS over Shiek due to having superior options to get back to neutral state (better recovery, more air mobility).

Also Jiggs is being slept on (pun not intended). Super strong air mobility and viable shield break options combined with strong KO options? Char is REALLY strong.

Agreed. I am definitely on the theory jiggs hype train. She just seems so well suited to the new mechanics so far. A few characters seem to have been given legit shield breaker moves which I think will be very good, jiggs is one of them. The revamped DI should really let her escape a lot of combos, and live fairly long. Bair is very strong, especially when you realize jiggs is the type of character that can go very deep off stage to hit you even closer to the blast zones. She actually has rest combos again and rest kills at relatively low %s. Shield stun is very low in this game and with the improved hitbox, rest should be able to punish some things on block.

 

[epicgordan]

Okay, I'm probably going to give my own personal impressions on how each and every character in the game will stack up from one another in a competitive scene. So far, there are 9 characters who I think we will be seeing a ton of mains in the competitive scene for one reason or another (though from what I have seen, there doesn't appear to be any truly broken or worthless characters):
1. Yes, I am being a bit cliché, but the Invitational has demonstrated that, while there truly is no such thing as a God Tier character this time around, this character tends to completely embarrass most characters ranked much lower (heck, if I were doing a top ten best characters list, Robin would round up the list, though I kept him off the most probably elite rankings due to his virtually unwinnable matchup against her). Her aerial game is second to none; her camping abilities are among the best; and she can repeatedly stun foes and grab them from afar with her whip to build up massive damage quickly.

2. Possibly the one character that could challenge Zero Suit Samus for the best in the game due to her ability to nullify camping strategies, as well as her field control mechanics. Really, her big weakness stems from being a big lightweight, two traits that do not gel well for anybody who remembers Mewtwo in Melee could testify. However, her strengths more than makes up for her personal shortcomings, and she could easily overtake Zero Suit Samus in the competitive scene.

3. Okay, so she hasn't exactly have a good tournament track record yet. But I have her ranked this high due to her combo potential rivaling--if not surpassing--a number of other characters, causing some serious compatibility problems.

4. This is in spite of the fact that his chaingrabbing techniques are rendered impossible in this iteration of Smash. Sorry, but the Gordo Toss leaves quite a bit of deadly combo--if not flat-out spiking--potential that, combined with his power game, makes him easily one of the best in the game.

5. This is wonderful news for me because he is one of my most anticipated newcomers. But we have seen gameplay footage of his combo potential in action, including quite a number of quick kills using his Hydro Pump. He will most certainly become quite the force to be reckon with once people get used to his playstyle and learn of his exploits.

6. Yes, I have him rated this low simply because he doesn't quite have any cheap quick kill potential like the characters rated above him, and Rosalina in particular can serve as a hard counter against him. With that said, he is every bit annoying as he was in his game, and the hitboxes in particular are freaking huge for his attacks. Kind of like a mixture of Diddy Kong and Snake from Brawl in a way.

7. Yes, I have him rated this low in spite of his capabilities against the above characters (save Rosalina). Heck, I probably would have had him at 2 and Rosalina at 1, but for now, it has more to do with the fact that his potential takes quite a bit of docking against a pure melee fighter like, say, Sonic or Bowser. Still, at least he has a number of tricks up his sleeve to keep him elite no matter who he is up against.

8. Yes, I have him this high for very good reason. Like Duck Hunt, the hitbox for his moves is gargantuan, and he can cause a wide variety of trouble and frustration for other players. Not to mention that he can spike with his Fire Hydrant too (though that's a little easier to get away from compared to what, say, the top five can do).

9. Simply put; this guy is about pure power, and his speed and landing lag is impressive for such a hulking behemoth. Definitely possesses combo potential, though there is nothing about him that is necessarily cheap per se save for his raw strength, as well as his super armor in his attacks and shield-breaking tendencies. My theory is, highly tactical characters like...anybody else ranked above him can find ways around him (skill levels pending, of course).

And here are my 11 honorable mentions. I'll probably go over those characters into greater detail sometime tomorrow:



And no, this is not a tier list. Just what I think the competitive scene will ultimately look like is all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Lucario, Fox, Yoshi, Wario and Sonic are characters that might be slept on as of right now. They all have seen important buffs, little to no nerfs, they all have their respective outstanding traits and I fail to see any major weaknesses in their character design. All of them have a rather good shot at ending up high or very high on the tier list imo.

If there's one character I can see very little hope for it'd have to be Luigi. Does he have anything to make up for his devastating lack of mobility and range?

 

[Une]

I hope to GOD Jigglypuff does not turn out to be too good. Jigglypuff being good + Brawl-styled gameplay = Kill me now.

 

[dansal]

I hope she's really, really good.

 

[trilok]

I own the full version, and currently main zamus/sheik and have played a few hundred online matches. that being said, there were very few people who i considered good. I actually ran into zero a bunch of times and it was interesting to see myself get wrecked.

Zamus and sheik are really good from what ive experienced.
Sheik feels like a very solid character that I feel has advantages against all the cast, even if very little sometimes. She is easy to play compared to zamus, but her damage output is pretty low, so combos are necessary to rack up damage. she is quite easy to edgeguard with, having a back air and the moon kick that is really easy to hit recovering opponents with, and she can go out really far and still come back with moonkick/up b.This can cause early kos gimps. her aerials have so little ending lag, that its hard to even time a grab on her fair jab or fair grab, especially online.

Zamus is also very good. However with zamus, I feel like I either have a very big advantage in certain character matchups, or some trouble if they can quickly get in my face. I mostly feel this against sheik, for which i would more prefer playing as sheik. she feels less combo oriented, though they do exist. She more of a zoner character, and playing like an aggro sheik would be a very bad idea, as ive learned. comboes into up b can kill very quickly, like bowser at 80-90 kinda quick. its just extremely strong, especially if used at a higher elevation. it can also be pretty easily used to suicide gimp a recovering horizontal character, which ive used to style when up a few times.