Character Competitive Impressions

[Yonder]

Any Luigi impressions, guys?

 

[goodspeed87]

I have some trouble killing stuff with Pikachu...am I just missing something?

He's all about his air-game now moreso than ever. Too many ground-specialists (Lil Mac), his grounders are meant to pop opponents into the air & keep them there. He can rack up the %'s quick with his fair/bair, the way you're intended to kill with him is by chasing opponents off-ledge & denying their return.

With extended blast zones & a new ledge-game, he's a natural for what's perceived to be a huge part of this title's style of play, if you will.

 

[FlynnCL]

Here's just some of my views. They're probably completely wrong, though.

King Dedede has really surprised me. I was completely expecting him to be nerfed, but overall he's looking extremely solid with his changes. Amazing off-stage game, guaranteed follow-ups, kill power, decent projectile, extremely heavy, swallowcide and a good recovery.

Bowser hits like a brick to the face. Good tilts, no landing lag aerial grab, auto-cancel back-air and f-air and one of the best punish / read moves in his forward smash. New edge mechanics really help his recovery and his off-stage game is very nice. He's a huge target and lags hard when fast falling moves, though.

Captain Falcon, Sheik, Charizard, Fox, Peach and Ness have potential. Falcon and Peach really need that c-stick for fast fall up-airs chains.

Ganondorf is okay. He's faster, still has great kill power, potential low-% follow-ups, super-armour neutral B but he's still relatively slow. His down-air doesn't seem to auto-cancel out of a short hop and it has sour-spot that hits horizontally, plus his Flame Choke can - apparently - be teched.

Ike looks painfully decent. He's slightly faster in a lot of areas (like up-air) but he's still slow to a point where nearly everything is a huge commitment. His redone aerial animations have slower sword swings in his f-air which has less range than Brawl, and his neutral air doesn't appear to auto-cancel as early any more. He seems weaker in a few moves, has minimal follow-ups and his recovery is mediocre.

I don't know what to say about Little Mac other than he's just one dimensional. He's strictly bolted to the ground and is only good on Final Destination or walk-off stage. With little to no shield-stun in this game, he has limited options against a defensive player who's shielding. He kills early, so I expect him to be used a lot, though I think his meta will develop into an extremely campy playstyle where you just try to read / bait your opponent.

 

[Yodude57]

Link's combos at low % seem decent enough from what I've seen on Zero's youtube channel though. Dthrow, jab, utilt, bomb and the boomerang all look like they have combo potential. For what it's worth, I've yet to notice an outstanding weakness about Link but if he does turn out to have a major weakness I really, really doubt it's going to be combos.

Also Link's shield is ridiculous. He can block a fully charged Arcthunder of Robin by just standing there.

Yeah someone's video that I saw pointed that out too. It's pretty crazy! Hopefully we will soon see to what extent this works and how to use it.

 

[Tackman91]

He's all about his air-game now moreso than ever. Too many ground-specialists (Lil Mac), his grounders are meant to pop opponents into the air & keep them there. He can rack up the %'s quick with his fair/bair, the way you're intended to kill with him is by chasing opponents off-ledge & denying their return.

With extended blast zones & a new ledge-game, he's a natural for what's perceived to be a huge part of this title's style of play, if you will.

I guess I've played so much Kirby that I'm used to my aerials actually killing when I'm off-stage. But I've done a few more matches with Pikachu and had less trouble scoring KOs. I think I was unconsciously using the b-air a little too much before that (once again too much time spent playing Kirby and Dedede...)

 

[Dagon97]

lucina and marth are looking pretty horrible to me. Is it just me or is tippered dair a couple million times easier to do?

lucario is amazing and robin is pretty good.

DeDeDe is looking to have godlike edge guards with his gordo's

I'm not impressed with Little Mac, Bowser and Rosalina though

 

[DrakeRowan]

My Impressions of EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE GAME:​

::NOTE::
THIS IS A CULMINATION OF WHAT I FEEL FROM FOOTAGE I HAVE WITNESSED. I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY PLAYED WITH THESE CHARACTERS YET. Also, for my competitive background, I used to been considered the best Midwest Brawl Peach long, long ago back in the early days of that game. I consider myself washed-up now in brawl, so take this for what it's worth.

IF ANYTHING ON HERE IS JUST FLAT OUT WRONG, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. WILL UPDATE WHEN I GET MORE TIME.
​

Mario:
-Easily one of the better characters when it comes to combos. His Utilt, Dtile, Dthrow, Uthrow, can lead to some nasty followups.
-Cape is still a great gimping tool.
-His pressure game is immense. Dair is seriously great in this game.
-Still lacks range though, outside of Fireball.'
-Recovery is still somewhat balls.
-Awesome set of a Mario in action right here

Luigi:
-His overall recovery seems a tad worst than it did in Brawls. His Torpedo looks slower to me.
-His Dair is surprisingly good at pressure as you can follow it up with something (like nair) within a short hop.
-Great combo game, as usual.
-Jab to UpB is a thing again.
-DThrow leads to tons of combos.
-IDK, but he feels like the worst of the Mario cast. Don't get me wrong, he's good (great even); but when compared to the rest of the Mario peeps, he just feels like he's lacking something.

Peach:
-Turnips are slower to pull, but ledge cancelling the animation solves that. One of her custom (a slower turnip pull, but stronger overall turnip) is REALLY good with ledge cancelling. Turnips aren't as integral to her gameplay like it was in brawl.
-Buffed second jump <3. Thank you based Sakurai.
-Relies on float/Dair a lot again.
-Dsmash his decent knockback on final hit. With that, and with it's vacuum effect, Dsmash is much better than it was in brawl. It's not melee Dsmash, but it's viable.
-Crown (Fair) knockback has been buffed slightly, but it's no longer possible to cancel it's animation.
-Her killing potential is higher thanks to her buffed Fsmash, and easier to use Usmash.
-Her new Uair hits fast, has multiple hits (IIRC), and has good juggling potential.
-Peach Bomber, while faster on startup, is still a High Risk/High Reward move. It can be easily knocked out of. It's biggest buff lies in the fact it explodes and hits shields. It now looks safe when shielded, instead of passing right through shielding opponent as in Brawl. It's a fantastic move now and I WILL be abusing this.
-One of her custom Peach Bomber's extends the trajectory and makes her rise at an angle similar to how Morrigan (MvsC, Darkstalkers) or Ino (Guilty Gear) dash in their games.
-Utilt can no longer kill, but is now a good juggle move.
-Overall, I feel she's slightly more solid than in brawl; not MUCH better than Brawls, but better. Brawl Peach players should feel right at home with her.

Bowser:
-So. Many. Buffs. IMO, this guy has never felt better before. I feel he's been buffed the most out of all characters. He's really good now; but he's not ZOMG BEST CHARACTER which everybody is cracking him up to be.
-His Bair is godly. It sends people off mostly horizontally and I've seen it kill DK in the 60-70% range.
-His Fsmash is also great. It's surprisingly quick, has deceptive range, and is just shy from having Ike's Fsmash knockback. Comes also with super armor IIRC.
-Great Edgeguarding, pressure game, out-of-shield options, followups, and more.
-Cons include; his size, somewhat lackluster vertical recovery, and predictable get in your face aggro game. He also suffers heavily against Zoning/campy characters, in particular DHD and Villager.

Yoshi:
-Buffed, very much since brawl. His mobility is insane. He's a legit threat.
-Usmash is now pretty much Foxes from Melee.
-Retains glorious priority on alot of his moves.
-Bair is great at poking AND is a kill move on last hit.

Rosalina:
-Her and Chiko (Luma) just owns the stage. Her and Villager are shaping up to be the best characters against campy projectile users. I was right, she's also a legit threat.
-She can just send Chiko out for her edge guarding game; rendering any potential danger off-stage moot.
-Luma is surprisingly bulky and is very good at eating attacks.
-Luma will often get in the way of the opponents combos and throws.
-Unlike Nana with ICs, Luma will regenerate within 7 seconds if she dies.
-Projectiles are nothing to her thanks to the Gravitational Pull special, in addition to the annoying Luma.
-Recovery is also amazing.

Bowser Jr:
-His special where he drops the mecha-koopaling (DownB I believe) stays out for some time and is just a nuisance to the opponent. It can be picked up as an item as well. IIRC it'll disappear after being thrown once and only one can be out at a time.
-The exploding clown car with his Up-B has immense killing potential, and is pretty fast to boot.
-His Cannonball Projectile has a range of about 75% of Brawl's FD and goes about as fast as Lucario's Aura Sphere. Together with this, and his Down-B he can be an decent zoning (campy) character.
-His FSmash is disgustingly disjointed and is also a lingering hitbox, making it great at punishing excessive spot dodging.
-Another great, solid character.

Wario:
-I'm still up in the air when it comes to his new BackHand Fsmash. The longer reach is appreciated, but in exchange for a longer animation? IDK. It also seems to launch opponents more at a 45 degree angle unlike his Brawl FSmash. Scratch everything about that. His new FSmash has A LOT of knockback. It's really strong. No more Super Armor though =( (I think), but it's good trade-off
-His Dash Attack trips people behind him at a certain point.
-He goes up a little more with his UpB than he did in brawl.
-He has this crazy glitch/bug which vastly alters his knockback.
-His Dsmash lasts half as long as it did and brawl and "I THINK" it hits multiple times. (He hits infront of him, then behind him, then infront again, and then behind him again, and stops.)
-His new USmash is miles better than it was in brawl.
-Overall, it doesn't feel like his gameplay has changed much from Brawl; which is good, as he's pretty solid and fun

Game and Watch:
-I've seen only one gameplay footage of him and it wasn't that good. I'll hold any opinions on him till I see more gameplay of him.
-Doesn't look much different than brawl from what I seen so far.

DK:
-I've seen quite a bit of gameplay with him. He's yet another character that has been improved from their Brawl Rendition.
-Player's can short hop Bair twice with him, but you will suffer landing lag from the second Bair.
-His Dair Spike hits further below him than in previous games. It's still slow though.
-Dtilt can trip like it does in brawl; in turn, leads to easy Donkey Punch setups.
-The range of his Earthquake has been increased and eats shields for breakfast. I've seen a full shield from Dedede go moot within 2 hits. It's also good for reading rolls/spot-dodging.
-Great Combo potential thanks to his Utilt and Uair.
-Player's often get confused discerning between him having a fully charged Donkey Punch ready and the new high percentage fuming mechanic.
-He seems to once again rely on Bair alot to space and to get in like in previous games.

Diddy Kong:
-Banana's has been nerfed to the underworld. He can only have one banana out, and the banana only lingers on stage for a few seconds before disappearing. They also immediately disappear after hitting someone. Even though his bananas have peeled in usage, he's still very good. In fact, a lot of his other moves have been buffed. His SideB in particular has gotten quite nasty and is now a very good kill move.
-He can no longer "combo" out of his Dash Attack, thanks to the new knockback of the final hit.
-This is all I know so far from the LITTLE footage I've seen of him.

Link:
-Another greatly buffed character. His zoning abilities are absolutely fantastic. He's very nimble now.
-One of his custom moves makes his Bombs able to meteor/spike the opponent.
-His Dash Attack has strong knockback, great range, good follow-up potential at lower percentages; heck, it's just a really good move now. It's punishable on block though (like with pretty much all dash attacks).

Zelda:
-Her best changes lies in Farore's Wind, IMO. It is now a strong KO move and easier to control. The first hit (when she's teleporting) hits fast and launches the opponent straight up into the second hit (When Zelda appears). Of course, this only happens if you have Zelda teleport directly up. The second hit of Farore's Wind will often kill an opponent within the 90%+ range.
-Naryu's Love hits harder and is still a good lingering hitbox like it was in brawl.
-Utilt no longer kills unfortunately, but is good at juggling.
-I've heard accounts that Zelda's aerial tippers are easier to land.
-I've heard one of Zelda's Din's Fires is like Project M, where she could plant it.
-I am not a fan of her new down-B. It's really easy to see coming and dodge.
-Her D-Throw hits for only 6%, lol.
-Fun to use, and is shaping up to be rather good for once.

Sheik:
-Thanks to the added hitstun, Sheik can now combo effectively.
-Her tilts are one of the best in the game for comboing.
-Her Fair is extremely good and virtually no lag. Has little knockback, but this is good for following up.
-Her new specials (Her sideB and downB) are both viable. I favor her new DownB. It has amazing killing potential.
-Dair comes out faster, but is still pretty bad.
-Overall, she's looking VERY good right now. A lot of competitive players have been using her lately.

Ganon:
-Buffed, as in faster, but nowhere near top contender. His damage output is insane though. He can easily take an opponent from 0% to 45-49% within three good hits.
-He has Super Armor for the entirety of his Warlock Punch.
-Utilt is still god awful.
-He can combo into his Ftilt/Dtilt from his SideB, unless it isn't teched.
-Ftilt has much improved knockback. It feels very much Project M.
-Dtilt is faster.

Toon Link:
-I've seen only one gameplay footage of him. I'll hold off on any opinions till I see more gameplay of him.

Samus:
-No Sakurai. She is not the best character.
-Spacing with her Tether is a thing again like it was in brawl.
-Fsmash has improved range and knockback thanks to the explosion.
-Uair can kill now (lol)
-Buffed from her brawl counterpart.

Zero Suit Samus:
-My opinion on her hasn't changed since E3. She's still strong, speedy, and a contender for one of the top characters within the game.

Pit:
-Hasn't seen much on him, as most use Dark Pit instead. Will update when I see more on him.

Palutena:
-Is looking pretty solid so far. I don't think she'll be top tier, but she has growth.
-Her smashes have incredible range, come have a wind hitbox if hit (fsmash, dsmash only). However, they all have rather high recover lag.
-Her Ftilt hits multiple times, but feels slow.
-Her Nair seems excellent. It's quite possibly her best aerial.

Marth:
-He IS nerfed, but not as bad as everyone is making him out to be.
-He has lots of lag on tons of moves; but still good thanks to disjointed hitboxes.
-He and Lucina are pretty much the most basic sword characters in the game.
-Counter kills at surprising percentages.
-His throws can kill.

Ike:
-Looks relatively unchanged from Brawl, aside from Fair and blue eruption. He's not impressing me so far; but that's just my opinion. He may shine in the hands of a good player.
-Eruption has buffed priority and the explosion has extended vertical range.
-Has crazy hit stun on his attacks.
-His Fair doesn't have as much range as it did in brawl. (It doesn't hit opponents a little below his sword during the end frames like it did in brawl.)
-Jab, Jab, Jab; like in brawl. Hope you like that gameplay. The final jab (the sword swing) lost some priority.

Robin, Reflet:
-Not only do they look fun to use, but they're shaping up to be one of the better character(s) in the game, imo.
-Pretty much all of his/her aerials are fast and with good knockback and range.
-Can use smash attacks in the air, in case you didn't know.
-Nosferatsu heals Robin and damages opponent at the same time; thus creating excellent Life Gap.
-Arc Fire/Flame is a personal favorite of mine. It's everything what PK Fire wishes it was.
-Robin tosses the sword away (automatically) when its powers are consumed, and when he does, the sword has a hitbox of it's own.

Kirby:
-Smash 64 Kirby returns, but no where near as broken.
-Ground Hammer comes out a little faster. I have yet to see anyone do Aerial Hammer. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a custom option to make his Aerial Hammer like it was in Melee (or in Brawl)
-Bair is still really strong for approaches and stuff.
-Great combo potential thanks to Utilt, Dthrow, ForwardThrow and more.
-Fsmash still has it's godly horizontal knockback.

KDDD:
-His new SideB, Gordos, are GOLDEN. They are literally his best move now. They alone make him surprisingly effective at zoning. Watch out as the opponent can smack Gordos back to Dedede. A turnip from Peach is enough to bounce them back.
-Gordos trajectory can be changed. Holding Up during his sideB makes it bounce close to him. Holding Forward makes them go straight.
-Gordos CAN hit twice. I've seen one Gordo bounce a ROB against the side of a stage twice.
-Gordos are also effective at Anti-Edgeguarding.
-No more Bair spam. Thus, you'll have to utilize Gordos and other tricky maneuvers to get close. Bair has been replaced with a strong back swing of his hammer with great knockback.
-No more Dthrow Infinites/Loops. (thank god). To compensate this though, his Dthrow is great to start combos with.
-Throw range has been nerfed slightly.
-Fair is great for comboing, often leading into more Fairs, and is swell for edge-guarding
-UAir is now a kill move.
-Nair is a MUCH better move; thanks to its lingering hitbox. It's a great edge-guarding move.
-DAir is now a pretty fast spike.
-His UpB latches on the edge immediately. The player no longer has to cancel the UpB midanimation to latch onto the ledge.
-His FowardTilt still has awesome range and now hits multiple times.
-His Dashattack ends with Dedede in a crouching position.
-Overall, Dedede plays a whole lot different than his Brawl counterpart, and for the better, IMO. He's easily one the better characters in the game.

Metaknight:
-The nerfs are huge; but he's still a very strong character. High Risk/Low reward type of gameplay remains.
-No more gliding for all characters - in case you didn't already know.
-Tornado no longer has priority over everything and has VERY noticeable lag at the end.
-All of his moves have gained little to noticeable lag in some way, shape, or form. Do not be fooled though, he's still the speedy little guy we've come to love and hate.
-Dair is still an amazing gimping/spacing tool.
-Shuttle Loop lost some of it's initial knockback power. It remains a strong killing option however. I do not know if the invincibility frames are still there.
-I'm sure there's more, but I haven't seen much footage of him yet. I'll update when I do.

Little Mac:
-This guy is the definition of a Glass Cannon. Mac is the type of character that excels in 4v4 where not much attention is paid to him, unlike in 1v1s. Hate to say it, but his absolutely horrid recovery really limits his potential. He's still good though. In fact, he's a rather strong counter to characters who rely on their on-stage game.
-He's amazing to watch in the hands of a good player.
-Sakurai is right; he has a great ground game and a CRAPPY aerial game.
-His FSmash has amazing knockback and kills at standard (low) smash percentages (i.e. Brawl, Melee, 64), unlike the rest of the cast.
-His One-Two punch (I believe his Ftilt) is fast and has really good knockback. It reminds me of Snake's Ftilt.
-His Dtilt is also incredibly good. Fast, good range, and sets-up KO punch (only at low percents however)
-Dsmash comes out extremely fast, has good range, hits really low.

Fox:
-Looking really solid this time around. The nerfs to Falco bring them both around each other again.
-After using Lasers (in air or ground), Fox suffers a period where he puts the gun away. I think this can be cancelled if you fall onto a ledge.
-No advanced Shine tricks discovered as of yet. I'm fairly sure you can jump out of shine like you could in previous games. Cannot jump out of shine.
-He doesn't go helpless after using Fox Illusion, making his recovery even better than it already was.
-I've heard DThrow, dash, to pivot jump Bair is guaranteed on a lot of characters. Strong killing option.
-I'm unsure if UThrow to Uair works. (I'm sure it doesn't do) However, I've seen people use Dash Attack and go into Uair a couple times.

Falco:
-Different, and nerfed in areas; but again like Marth, his changes aren't as bad as people are making it out to be.
-No more DThrow chain grabbing. (thank god)
-He doesn't shoot lasers as fast, and lasers themselves no longer go full screen as they did in previous games.
-He has a custom option which changes his lasers to be like Wolfs in Brawls and explode like Din's Fire when the laser makes contact.
-Like Fox, his Falcon Illusion doesn't make him go helpless after using it; thus, making his recovery better than it ever was in previous games.
-Still really fast and strong jab game.
-All of his smashes all have increased knockback. His Usmash though has more noticeable lag at end.
-His Bair remains a really strong spacing tool and has increased knockback.
-Nair is unchanged from Brawl; meaning it's still pretty good.
-Nerfed Dair (It actually has startup now), but it's still good. Thanks to the new floor bounce mechanic given to Meteor Smashes, it's possible to chain Dairs into each other (You'll need both Jumps to do this however.)

Pikachu:
-His Thunder comes out much faster. The Cloud can meteor smash, but I'm unsure whether it shares the "ground bounce" mechanic as the rest of Sm4sh Meteors have, especially concerning how Thunder works.
-I've heard rumors quick attack cancel (that advanced tech from Brawl) returns, but I've yet to see it in an actual match.
-Overall, he hasn't had many changes; aside from some animations and the obvious thunder cloud meteor smash. He's still solid. Not much I can say about him, sorry.

Charizard:
-His new SideB, Flare Blitz, hits like a truck and has knockback appropriate for a truck. It's pretty fast too. Too bad it deals damage to him.
-Uthrow is Seismic Toss.
-Flamethrower seems to have a little less range then it did in brawl.
-Unsure if he has crazy grab range like he did in brawl. (Need to see footage of him again to confirm)
-Looking quite viable, but I'll need to see more to give a better judgment.

Lucario:
-His aura/rage mechanic has been buffed tremendously. At high percentages his Extremespeed goes 2.5x it's normal distance. Yeah... It's crazy.
-His final jab (the Kick) has better range; it hits a little more vertically than it did in brawl.
-His Fair now has some lag in between uses.
-Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think his Dair halts him in the air like it did in brawl. I've only seen this moved used ONCE and it was very close to the ledge.
-Shaping up to be one of the top on the game. A good moveset all around that will just get even better the more damage he takes.

Jiggs:
-She's been considerably buffed from Brawl. The ol' Wall of Pain is back in full force. She's good again, yay.
-Her Nair can kill I believe.
-Unsure if her pound eats shields like it did in previous games. I don't see why it wouldn't in Sm4sh however.
-Rest is in between Brawl and Melee in power. Not sure if it poisons targets like it did in brawl. I've heard accounts that she sleeps less if the Rest hits; but from what I seen, I think this is false.
-Looking pretty solid this time around.

Greninja:
-Speedy mofo is one of the better characters in the game. His Aerials are good, fast, and damaging. Fair/Bair/Uair all have above-average knockback and priority. His Nair auto-cancels I believe.
-He's Shadow Sneak makes it easy to get it, and his Water Shurikens makes it easy to keep a distance.
-His Dtilt is ridiculous. It's fast and has very good range. Probably the best Dtilt in the game.
-Dair leads into interesting setups.

Duck Hunt Dog:
-Shaping up to be the best projectile character in the game. He's VERY campy. He does suffer against characters that can easily do away with projectiles (Rosalina, Villager) and against characters who can easily stay in his face (Sheik).
-Discus (SideB I think) can rack up tons of damage if spammed.
-His CanBomb special is very unique and is another projectile in his arsanel. It can kill at high percentages
-His Gunner special shoots only one (pretty much invisible) shot, but it can block other projectiles, i.e. Fox's lasers.
-All of his smash attacks are disjointed hitboxes with GREAT range. His Fsmash in particular has great knockback.
-Great Recovery as well. Gogo Duck.

R.O.B.
-Fair has been nerfed somewhat. It's hard for me to describe to what detail; but it's nerfed.
-His Laser, when fully charged, has a much wider vertical range than it did in brawl. It's like a mini Kamehameha.
-His Fsmash (I think) is different. ROB crouches and lowers his head, then lasers explodes from his eyes. All other properties of the move seem to be unchanged.
-Still a solid character.

Ness:
-Looking good so far. He has many buffs, making him yet another solid choice. He's not top contender material, but he's showing promise.
-Still has the PKThunder recovery.
-His Fair is absolutely great. Low knockback, but his Fair leads into more fairs. Very good pressure move.
-His Absorb surrounds him in a much larger area than in previous games.

C.Falcon:
-Brawl Falcon has been Falcon Punched out of here. The cap is now a very solid choice and now has combo options.
-His aerial game is all about the Uair and the much buffed Bair. Bair is an awesome kill move, hits fast, good edgeguarding move, and more. It's likely his best aerial now.
-Falcon Drive (Shoryuken) kills now, often at suprisingly low percentages (120%+ range for some characters.)

Villager:
-Absolutely great recovery, Can pocket pretty much anything, great aerial game, good ground game. His up close ground game is a mess though. His throw is horrid..
-Tree is surprisingly fast and has amazing range and knockback. It's also useful for eating projectiles.
-Pocket and Tree that eats projectiles pretty much hard counters DHD (Duck Hunt Dog)
-His Bair/Fairs have great range and are even better when edge-guarding.
-After finally sitting down and playing with him, he's solid; however, I no longer think he's one of the best characters in the game.

Olimar
-No comment. I've yet to seen any footage of him.

WiiFitTrainer
-Looking rather good and pretty fun to play. I feel she's in the middle parts of the cast.
-Her Volley special is a great antiedgeguarding tool, and is all around a great projectile, despite the awkward trajectory.
-Not many streamers have used her Dsmash alot, which is a shame considering it's rather good.
-Her hitboxes for a lot of her moves are rather clunky.

Clones:
-Dr. Mario has less combo potential than regular Mario, but hits harder and has better knockback on some moves. I feel he's weaker than Mario.
-Lucina plays exactly like Marth with a balanced sword all around. Her Fair suffers to same lag as Marths. I don't think either Lucina or Marth are better than the other.
-Dark Pit is the best clone IMO. Some find him better than regular pit. His SideB has a huge hitbox (I've heard it's bigger than regular Pit) but suffers from horrible recovery. He has good aerials, good ground game, and good smashes. None of which are absolutely GREAT, but he's solid and has potential in the right hands.

Shulk:
-Looking great so far. His playstyle is very fun and fresh, especially considering he's yet another sword wielding character. He's really feeling it! His competitive future is very promising.
-Weakness's can be covered with appropriate Monado Arte; however, his main weakness, laggy end animations to his moves, cannot be solved via Monado Artes - which is a shame.
-All of his smashes have a slight ramp-up time, similar to Ike's. Former Ike player's looking for something different, will feel right at home with Shulk's moveset.
-The range of his Smashes and aerials are excellent. His Bair in particular is amazing.
-The extra swing in his upB can rise him a bit higher in case you still didn't manage to reach the ledge.

Megaman:
-There's been a lot of mixed reactions as far as his competitive future is concerned, but I feel he's pretty solid. Not broken, but usable.
-His main issues are his weak jab (and in turn Nair) and clunky playstyle that feels all over the place.
-Fair is a good spacing tool, but shouldn't be spammed as he suffers noticeable lag.
-His Bair is his strongest "direct" aerial kill move. It hits fast, has a disjointed hitbox, and doesn't suffer from much lag (if at all).
-Sticky Grenades are good and can lead into interesting situations and other followups. They are reminiscent to Snake's Grenades, IMO.
-Leaf Shield doesn't stun much, but it finds a niche in situations where the opponent is constantly in your face.
-Metal Blade is the special projectile that'll probably be spammed the most. Has good stun and it could be planted as an item for later use. Metal Blade into Dash Attack seems to be a favorite among streamers.
-He has a surprisingly decent range when grabbing. Use it to your advantage.
-His smashes are all good in their own ways. (Fsmash for range, USmash for lingering hitbox, Dsmash for hitting both sides)

PacMan:
-Shaping up to be one of the better characters in the game. His future is bright yellow. <3.
-His DownB (Hydrant) is such an excellent move.
-His Fruit (NormalB) gives him many options and varies his projectile game.
-His SideB is also good. Comes out fast, can change directions, good recovery option.
-Great aerial game.
-Good ground game. His Dsmash is amazing.

Sonic:
-He's also looking like one of the better characters in the game.
-The return of Hitstun gives him great combo options. Dthrow leads to interesting combos in particular.
-Usmash is much better in this game.
-Dsmash is completely different, and for the better. It's now virtually Fox/Falco's split Dsmash.
-Fsmash still seems to be it's brawl incarnate.
-The player can hold down his SideB and hop around, making him even more frustrating for opponents.

Tl;dr version
THIS IS NOT A TIER LIST, JUST MY OPINIONS ON THESE CHARACTERS FROM THE LIST ABOVE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE THING.​

Awesome

Great
()
Borderline

Good and Solid

Good and Solid, but have yet to impress me

Who Knows
( I've seen footage on Mii's, but I think they'll likely be banned)

 

[BlastState]

Any info on Megaman?

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Any info on Megaman?

This is just my opinion, but Megaman's default specials are not that good. Crash bomber can get passed back, leaf shield seems downright useless, and metal blade is slow and can easily get killed by a projectile. His down and up smashes are the only moves I see that can be really solid kill moves.

Now, I'm not very good with megaman, but I feel he got shafted hard.

 

[Tristan_win]

@ DrakeRowan Sheik

-Her Fair isn't melee, but it certainly isn't brawl. It has good knockback, but very noticeable lag.

In what fashion does it have lag? From the extremely little footage I've been able to find of Sheik on streams I saw her do fair into fair mid air combos/strings and fair into grab. Are you saying it has noticeable lag because before people were saying it was lagless?

I also disagree with you on knockback but who knows maybe it's scaling is good so I don't have any ground to argue on.

 

[AetherStorm]

This is just my opinion, but Megaman's default specials are not that good. Crash bomber can get passed back, leaf shield seems downright useless, and metal blade is slow and can easily get killed by a projectile. His down and up smashes are the only moves I see that can be really solid kill moves.

Now, I'm not very good with megaman, but I feel he got safted hard.

I've found that you can literally just run up to CPUs with leaf shield, causing them to shield and letting you just grab them. It also inflicts a slight stun, so this could potentially be used against people too.

 

[BlastState]

This is just my opinion, but Megaman's default specials are not that good. Crash bomber can get passed back, leaf shield seems downright useless, and metal blade is slow and can easily get killed by a projectile. His down and up smashes are the only moves I see that can be really solid kill moves.

Now, I'm not very good with megaman, but I feel he got safted hard.

I see, it seems it is just as I feared. Even though he was my most wanted newcomer, Mega's not turning out to fit my play-style very well. I hope my opinion will change once I finally get my hands on the game, so I can add his icon to my signature, where he belongs.

Thanks for the info,though. Maybe there are some aspects that are not discovered yet that can boost the somewhat lukewarm opinion on Megaman.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I see, it seems it is just as I feared. Even though he was my most wanted newcomer, Mega's not turning out to fit my play-style very well. I hope my opinion will change once I finally get my hands on the game, so I can add his icon to my signature, where he belongs.

Thanks for the info,though. Maybe there are some aspects that are not discovered yet that can boost the somewhat lukewarm opinion on Megaman.

Hopefully. If there's character that is deserving of praise it should be mega man.

 

[DrakeRowan]

@ DrakeRowan Sheik


In what fashion does it have lag? From the extremely little footage I've been able to find of Sheik on streams I saw her do fair into fair mid air combos/strings and fair into grab. Are you saying it has noticeable lag because before people were saying it was lagless?

I also disagree with you on knockback but who knows maybe it's scaling is good so I don't have any ground to argue on.

Haha, seen more footage on Sheik. I completely go against what I said on that. Sorry; I get loss trying to take notes on 49+ characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Megaman has a few good moves, but most of his projectiles are flimsy and easily avoided. Metal blade and sticky bomb are gimmicky and the latter often blows up in your own face. His jab/ftilt/nair is pretty god damn terrible, it's like if Falco lasers had no range and a projectile limit. The saving grace is that hitting them up close gives them a little more meat, making them somewhat more substantial.

His forward air, up air, and to an extent, down air are fine moves. His smashes are all great (although not being able to charge his fsmash while moving is kind of a bummer given his other restrictions) and his tilts are fine, with up tilt being a rather strong kill move.

The problem I have with Megaman is that nothing he has really works together very well, even the good stuff. He has little "flow." He's like a bad version of Samus or Palutena. Rush Cancelling and solid mobility make him really slippery, so I imagine that his playstyle will evolve to be somewhat campy and obnoxious with lots of time outs like Brawl Wario or Jigglypuff.

Namco worked hard to make sure Mega Man felt like Mega Man and in large part they succeeded, but I feel like being able to charge his fsmash while moving and jumping would have improved his feel and would have also helped to balance out his other quirks a bit (which are mostly negatives rather than positives).

I don't think he's a great character and he might even be the worst in the game... however he is leaps and bounds better than the likes of Melee Kirby or Brawl Ganon or something like that. He seems perfectly functional to me.

 

[WizKick]

I think Megaman is indeed really campy, I also think it's intentional. Rather than trying to make him flow you should use neutral to bait your stronger moves and play keep away all day. At least, that's my impression.

 

[ChillySundance]

Lucario looks incredibly solid now, even without the buff to aura. He's noticably faster and has had some quality of life touchups to his hitboxes and overall is just so much more responsive. He still has all the elements that made him good in Brawl, even if his hitboxes don't appear to linger as much anymore, they get a range boost to compensate.

Ness, I feel like he's gone and gotten buffed over all, but the weakening of his F-air is going to hurt him a bit. He shouldn't have to rely on it quite as much anymore now though, with improvements to his Nair and Bair, faster but weaker Dair, and improved dash attack. He also finally has some KO power back on his yoyos which function as actual smash attacks now. Glorious. The days of melee DJC and swing jumps are still gone forever but I can't wait to see what sort of combos he can do with rising air moves in this game now that combos are actually viable again.

 

[Ffamran]

Welp, I just watched an all Final Smash video and I noticed that Sheik has a new idle animation. Instead of standing around like in the past games, she has this battle-ready stance.

 

[Katakiri]

Well I've been playing the game for over a day now so I'll get some impressions out.

The Good:

• Side-B can be jumped out of, making it a lot like Sonic's Spin Dash and opens a lot of options for approach or follow-ups
• Side-B gives Bowser Jr a 2nd Mid-Air Jump as well as covering a lot of horizontal distance making Jr very hard to gimp
  
• Has a lot of combo potential
• Also has a lot of strong KO moves
  
• MechaKoopa's and Cannon Balls are great for pressure when not charging in with Side-B

Comparisons to Diddy Kong are pretty on-point. He's a small but powerful character with a decent amount of stage control on top of having movement options that pull it all together. This one's gonna be good.

The Bad:

• Cannot Short Hop a single laser and his lasers have massive ending lag.
• Lasers can't even travel the full distance of FD without vanishing
• D-Air has long start-up lag
• Up-Air is now a flash kick with less KO power than Brawl or Melee's
• The most Falco gets off a Down Throw is a dash attack or, at very low percents, an Up-Smash
  
• Pretty much reduced to a slower, more powerful version of Fox
• His air game is very poor with B-Air being his only passable option (which still got nerfed even from Brawl's)
• Ground game isn't very strong either with lasers being very unsafe and no useful throws
• At least his reflector animation is sped-up

I hope someone proves me wrong or I'm missing something big (and I've been looking, trust me) but Falco doesn't even seem competitively viable this time around IMO. He just has no options to work with; every option he had in Brawl and Melee have been either changed entirely or nerfed hard.
It may sound like I'm being harsh but Falco is the one character in what I see as a fairly balanced game that I can't say anything positive about because he really didn't get anything but heavy nerfs.

The Puzzling:
Palutena

• Has Mewtwo's lightning-fast teleport
• Forces opponent to fight her on her terms since teleport can pretty instantly prevent bad situations
  
• Has a lot of tools at mid- to long-range
• Autoretical is a volley of shots, making it hard to dodge
  
• Autoretical whiffs entirely if the foe spot dodges early (she does the animation and leave herself open but no shots come out)
• Reflect combats opposing projectiles
  
• Counter is dangerous at close range
• F-Smash has a very long wind box that pushes distant opponent's back
• Up-Smash is long, strong, and down to get the friction on
  
• Her Jab is obnoxiously good if she isn't fighting a swordsman
• She seems entirely match-up dependent.
• Also seems to have a high learning curve.

The tools are all there but Palutena needs a dedicated community to build her metagame. I can't tell if she's good or bad at this point. But one thing I can tell is that she is the Goddess of Hit & Run, like, this character is gonna be infuriating in some match-ups but that doesn't mean she'll be good, just obnoxious.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Sheik is looking really solid. She is one of the few characters who I can say can traditionally edgeguard as long as the opponent doesn't grab the ledge. Hanging on and waiting for the opponent to recover and then whipping out those B-airs is very effective.

She can combo well. F-tilt will reliably lead into an F-air on most characters. F-air is interesting because of the low knockback. It's good in a combo string and at high percentages, it becomes a nice off-stage option because it knocks people back just far enough to make recovering difficult.

 

[Halfhead]

So, I've heard that the Puff is, once again, tough. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Zwzchow]

Pit:
-Hasn't seen much on him, as most use Dark Pit instead. Will update when I see more on him.

Palutena:
-Slow smashes, with lots of lag. Usmash is her best smash purely because of range.
-Her Ftilt hits multiple times, but feels slow.
-I THINK her bair/fair is like Zelda's - with the tippers and stuff.
-I think she'll be better once people start unlocking her customs. Till then, I find she's pretty meh.

Palutena's customs are unlocked by default iirc

Also can anyone confirm if Pit has a tipper mechanic?

 

[DrakeRowan]

So, I've heard that the Puff is, once again, tough. Can anyone confirm this?

Puff is indeed good in this game once again. The wall of pain is back.

 

[Collective of Bears]

What kind of showing has Greninja had? I haven't seen hardly anyone using him.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Nobody played as Olimar?

 

[Con0rrrr]

What do you guys think of Duck Hunt?

I think his game will focus on tilts, smashes, aerials. And sometimes the can and clay pigeon. Those two moves have better custom variants from what I've heard.

To me, his down B seems awful.

 

[Wyntir]

Will the Mii Fighters be allowed in tournaments? Also what about custom moves?

 

[goodspeed87]

Will the Mii Fighters be allowed in tournaments? Also what about custom moves?

Who's to say, it'll be quite a while before we know such a thing. Personally, I imagine customs & Mii's to be usable with restrictions in a good handful of Tournaments.

Also, wrong thread for this question & threads already exist on this particular topic all about.

 

[slimjim]

On the characters as a whole: it is my opinion that characters whose competitive gameplay relies on frame-trap options (for ex. DHD) will be strong on the 3ds due to lack of control precision. Characters like C. Falcon will probably be inherently buffed in the transition from 3ds to WiiU due to the amount of control stick/c-stick precision required to effectively utilize his toolset.

 

[Wyntir]

Who's to say, it'll be quite a while before we know such a thing. Personally, I imagine customs & Mii's to be usable with restrictions in a good handful of Tournaments.

Also, wrong thread for this question & threads already exist on this particular topic all about.

Wrong thread how? "Character competitive " .... My question was about characters n competitive-ness so I'm on the right train

 

[Dagon97]

ROB is actually really good and Kirby seems very very godlike with his combos

 

[goodspeed87]

Wrong thread how? "Character competitive " .... My question was about characters n competitive-ness so I'm on the right train

It's about specific characters' competitive viability is why. There are already numerous threads dedicated to speculating upon Tournament structure/rules.

It's okay, you got your response anywho .

On-Topic: Greninja is pretty solid, I'll be intrigued to see how he develops once the meta is fleshed out & more experts get their hands on him. Solid reach, speed, & power... I did have a bit of difficulty KO'ing with him, but I can see him being great at chasing off stage which' nigh-essential now. I haven't played him too extensively but he's got powerful attributes overall... I imagine he'll end up falling into an above-average tier.

I can see Villager for top-tier honestly... but the discovery of new AT's will tell.

 

[andalsoandy]

Interested in hearing how Wario is going to do with his moveset changes and air speed nerf. Anyone got any more information on him?

Do you guys think characters like Palutena and Shulk will be an issue for short ranged characters like Jigglypuff and Wario or are their moves too laggy?

 

[Dagon97]

Interested in hearing how Wario is going to do with his moveset changes and air speed nerf. Anyone got any more information on him?

Do you guys think characters like Palutena and Shulk will be an issue for short ranged characters like Jigglypuff and Wario or are their moves too laggy?

puff is really good and can probably beat out shulk but i'm not sure about palutena but they will be a problem for wario.

If someone got mad good with Shulk and his auras then thy would be pretty scary

 

[SmasherP83]

puff is really good and can probably beat out shulk but i'm not sure about palutena but they will be a problem for wario.

If someone got mad good with Shulk and his auras then thy would be pretty scary

Speaking of puff. I may wanna try out puff again this time around. Might wanna find out if anything's changed about her yet or any nerfs/buffs.

 

[TitanTeaTime]

Haven't played anyone outside the demo, but from the looks of things R.O.B has quite a few buffs. Case in point, his side special isn't useless anymore as it has a uppercut to finish the move. His F-Smash also appears to have increased range, and the laser looks to be larger and more powerful when fully charged. Of course, these are just my observations - but he looks like he has potential.

 

[SmasherP83]

Haven't played anyone outside the demo, but from the looks of things R.O.B has quite a few buffs. Case in point, his side special isn't useless anymore as it has a uppercut to finish the move. His F-Smash also appears to have increased range, and the laser looks to be larger and more powerful when fully charged. Of course, these are just my observations - but he looks like he has potential.

I always thought he had potential? Or am I the only one who 1v1 a R.O.B. in Brawl and literally DESTROYED me. I didn't even touch the guy.

 

[Life]

I am probably one of the only people in the world with this opinion, but the ability for your opponent to pass Crash Bomb back to you is good for Mega Man, as it gives your opponent a reason to wade through your zoning immediately rather than waiting for the perfect opening.

 

[Yonder]

All I can contribute is that Luigi's combos are freakin' insane.

...From what I can tell from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW99xMuPSKY

Also, limited demo views, Mario, Link are definitely buffed. Mario for combos, Link for recovery and speed. Villager is pretty powerful, but a bit situational. Pikachu feels exactly the same. Not really buffed at all.

 

[kataridragon]

I am probably one of the only people in the world with this opinion, but the ability for your opponent to pass Crash Bomb back to you is good for Mega Man, as it gives your opponent a reason to wade through your zoning immediately rather than waiting for the perfect opening.

You can time a back or forward dodge to completely avoid the explosion. It won't force anything. There are options. Wouldn't be surprised if you could air dodge the explosion either.