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Minordeth
How can someone who likes Waking the Dead/Trevor Eve ever be wrong? Thanks for your post :D
Any who I thought I would continue this explanation I made earlier on of who I think are the weaker characters in the game right now. Plus why some popular lowly thought of characters weren't in my list. I wouldn't like to stipulate that these characters are doomed, or hell, even that bad at all, I'm seeing many of these characters played by good players doing very well in a multitude of match ups, I don't think any character in this game loses or does poorly universally throughout the cast, which is amazing in and of itself in contrast to Brawl or Melee. Characters which are weak or polarising-esque I believe will be what shapes the lower ends, however weak can easily translate to
hard but feasible to succeed and polarising a
great secondary/counter pick character. Heck, even being figured out in more depth than what we currently see and shooting way up!
Hmm...
who do I actually think is a lower mid/low tier character (i.e. bottom half-ish)
some of the things I'd assume people would question:
1. Link: I just haven't seen him being a tournament threat at all. I'd love to see otherwise, but while buffs were gained, he either suffers terrible unpopularity (no one good representing him) or isn't a great character (still). I wouldn't say bottom tier like in Brawl, but I really don't think it's a safe bet to assume he's good because of it (Bowser/Zelda syndrome)
2. The falchions: contrary to popular belief, I'm pretty sure Marth's true pivot is the same as Lucina's and it's on the higher end. They may use this spacing tool better than most characters. The high lag on aerials and arguably some of his moves is just way too much in a sped up mobility game with less shield safety than any other game thus far. Wouldn't take much to make them high tier+ again though, so it's not that bad.
3. No Mario Bros? They're actually very good. Luigi has a grab game rivaling diddies with fantastic kill power, priority and projectile. Mario has top caste mobility specs, very low auto cancels (not remotely as "why" as Sheik or Diddy but still very good), the removal of vectoring skewed his capabilities massively, the up tilt damage nerf actually allows it to combo longer (much like Sheik's fair being a buff). Up Smash OoS and other power shield punishes are pretty hectic. Kinda has an option for everything. Both characters seem to really only suffer against super disjointed characters still.
4. Gunner: 1111.
5. Olimar: not terrible in the slightest. Could still be low tier but my experiences with Rich Brown (proudly still repping his brawl main) are making me feel otherwise. Has pretty free 0-50% combos, fsmash range is nice, the improved non-pikmin moves is quite noticeable in his ability to fight on par with other characters rather than being a polarising shut down master like in Brawl. Benefit of the doubt right now.
6. Pacman: I'm not sure what niche he has now after the nerfs because his meta and various counter play I doubt was very developed at the time that he was nerfed. Toned down hydrant and other things reduced a lot of his scary presence. At this stage, he seems like a very solid doubles character but perhaps too much of a gimmick now in singles.
Falco: A slower, longer ranged, generally more powerful and damaging Fox. But there are so many deficiencies in Falco's kit numerically in comparison to Fox to the point that he can be good, but his strengths aren't putting him high tier by any stretch, especially without customs. I would say he's middle tier-ish. Things that make him 'weaker' than Fox or in general: Laser (way too laggy/range cut/too low damage to compensate), side b being static when dynamic mobility tools like sheik/zss down-b exist; also being a lot more punishable than fox's. His aerial mobility being bottom caste makes a lot of his aerial options very easy to respond to and makes him extreme juggle and gimping fodder. Despite this, he still has a better throw game than Fox and the strength and range of his moves are powerful as is.
Koopalings + Jr: I've lightened up in my extremely poor opinion of them. I feel like he has good moves, but just like other characters around this region, they don't flow together well or lead to things which are consistently rewarding. Counterplay against him is a lot more pronounced than any other character (takes more damage on the head, can't recover again after being hit out of up-b, terrible grab). Very strong in doubles.
Three heavies: In short, polarising characters who I'm not sure how consistent they can be strong in a large array of match ups. Characters like these can't be anything like Brawl Ganondorf bad, possibly not even Brawl Donkey Kong "bad" (remember: Chain grabbed/tornado/projectile camped). The high mobility characters still seem to have an edge over them, especially those with projectiles and smaller builds, but those are the ones which are by most people's opinions high/top tier as it is.
Not Bowser: I feel he still edges out along with DK as the "robust" heavies. Generally very good moves as well as mobility specs, but their large frames still betray them. They come with solid grab games still and scary survivability. In past games these characters tend to start high and drop over time, but we'll see if this trend breaks
.
G&W: really struggling to find a kill, but is otherwise an extremely solid character. Feels kinda like the Brawl Sheik in this regard, except a lot less 'punishable' than that iteration. Really amazing custom options, unfortunately unavailable, but he can go toe to toe with a lot of characters, out damaging them to an extent too, but if he loses the first stock first, it's a lost match. His frailty and kill issues (CUSTOM UP-B ERADICATES ALL OF THIS) deny him as a consistently good pick status. Better than most characters people give him credit for though, definitely. Him and Pikachu (and G&W in general) are still god tier doubles partners.
Kirby: Definitely has some strengths people under appreciate, five jumps, fastish aerials and a normal grab generally account to fantastic character. I think he has room to develop, he seems to have tools to deal with a lot of melee-ish characters, including diddy and sheik but I would assume often has issues approaching or killing.
Mac: Another polarising character that is probably out of sight, out of mind. He isn't bad on smashville or battlefield, but he isn't ever getting FD first game. He's quite capable in doubles, otherwise on paper he's the glass cannon counter pick character of legends (any audience watching will always be hyped by a mac doing well, guaranteed). His grounded mobility specs with perfect pivoting in mind (his other ones were good before too) could give him an extra edge. Otherwise though what really hurts him is a very slow grab/general out of shield options (jab, ftilt 1 and dtilt aren't long range, while fast, other options are a lot slower).
Meta Knight: He's a special character, most of his capabilities are unique to just him. He has an extremely competitive ground game in terms of speed against even the best characters. Dash attack and dash grab are some of the best out there, and his consist follow ups on both at most percent is fantastic. But this is generally where the fun ends (other than his unique scenarios he has on the ledge/off stage), range and frame data (lag) are somewhat on the poor side, and although he gets a consistent follow up on two great moves, he doesn't generally continue to combo or apply pressure afterwards, his aerial mobility is low and he doesn't transition into the ground without lag unlike Brawl to be as capable of a frame trapper as others. He is top 15 at worst in doubles though, the damage on tornado, his general utility and the ability for a team mate to throw enemies towards you near the ledge or for them to continue your follow ups for you and shuttle loop make him super deadly. Over all, most of his specials are still very good, but a lot more risky than in Brawl. Could still have the potential to be solo mained, it's just a long, hard journey.
Palutena: 1111. *psych*. She's probably underrated, even without customs (with them she's like top 10 though). If she could just trade out into super speed she'd be a devastatingly good character. Right now she has great mobility specs, but mostly awkward/slowish moves to hit with, but the best jab and grab game to compensate. I could still see her in the bottom regions of the game only because of extreme difficulty rather than her capabilities (which are yet to be seen in customless meta).
Doc: Short end of the stick :< with very poor mobility, slightly worse frame data and range in some instances, the strength burst tends to not feel worth it. Very capable of wrecking havoc but otherwise Doc has the most glaring issues out of nearly anyone, akin to Ganondorf, range and recovery being compensated by cape, pills and a normal grab, but I don't think they're enough with his mobility spread.
Wii Fit: I either don't truly understand her design/inner workings or she wasn't made to be a 1v1, no items, final destination, yeehaw character. Really enjoyable to play, even when losing, and although I could be wrong, I feel as this was intended. No doubt she has some extremely strong options, but until I see a consistent way for her to win in a multitude of match ups I'll have to consider her towards the bottom area. People tell me to play anti before having an opinion though, and I wouldn't doubt him showing me a thing or two, but until then (or if he uses them in tournament sometime) I'm skeptical.
Samus: Way too floaty, or in a general way, doesn't have a successful flow to her that I've seen. Willing to be completely wrong because I find a lot her tools somewhat unique with pretty cool applications (but not necessarily strong ones).
Zelda: Short end of the stick :<. Sheik had two of her special moves changed/feasibly super buffed. Zelda has been given a tool that is cool in idea and free for alls (potentially doubles too) but isn't giving her an extra edge that compensates for the player/character losing the ability to switch to Sheik. The old joke "Has the best down b in the game" is sadly ironic here.
Swordsman: Not much of a personal opinion, my apologies. Enough people have convinced me he is generally a weaker character. Apex rules/1111 aren't giving him the best tools he has on offer either from what I've heard. Who knows though.
