Character Competitive Impressions

[Tagxy]

Even ignoring his one-inch punch, I think customs mii-brawler could be a contender for best in the game. Who are his bad MUs?

Oh sorry, Villager existing almost needing us to re-add an LGL to this game is why I consider him toxic.
Villager is a character designed to plank you for 8 minutes straight with near impunity. He, before anyone else, is why I'm hesitant about custom specials being legal.
Please don't let others above him get nerfed until he's the best choice.

Dont worry once they buff pika again he'll be a hard counter to villager. Along with everyone else.
(better state im kidding before anyone takes that serious)

I actually do think villager is fairly susceptible to edgeguarding, just less so then other characters. Hitting him doesnt seem so hard so much as he wont stay down. Watching Zee though he seems to be a pretty entertaining character.

 

[Nobie]

While it's not Pac-Man, one of the first matches I got really excited about for Smash 4 was Chibo's Rob vs. RJ's Duck Hunt. Is there something especially different about Pac-Man?

 

[Nu~]

Yes, not like I play the character or anything.


Not sure about the gunner eating the hydrant as you just reminded me that's the one thing I didn't test vs PacMan but otherwise, hydrants eating a projectile isn't necessarily true. The hydrant remains stagnant once landed and that doesn't stop a SH clay pigeon (smash goes further than tilt), a can simply shot over the hydrant, and the gunmen shots are transcendent priority and just go through it (and villager's tree as well). DH has the zoning advantage and Pac Man will need to approach thus reducing the whole endlessness of the matchup. Bonus Fruit Key goes through everything but with the time it takes to start up, it's not going to be spammed. Every other fruit gets canceled by the can/clay pigeon/gunman. The can doesn't blow up upon getting hit and Pac Man is fighting a losing battle if he's going to rely on the fruit for that.

Actually, a hydrant being thrown at you destroys and passes through your can, clay pigeon, and gunman. You shouldn't be sitting behind your hydrant anyway if it's being shot at. Also, the galaxian goes through your gunman, can, and clay pigeon as well. In CQC, you still have to deal with the trampoline which forces an aerial approach. Something DHD really shouldn't be doing to a grounded opponent with the lag on most of his aerials.

While it's not Pac-Man, one of the first matches I got really excited about for Smash 4 was Chibo's Rob vs. RJ's Duck Hunt. Is there something especially different about Pac-Man?

Watch some abadango gameplay on YouTube. The way he controls the stage is very different from them. And he approaches more often than DH

 

[Jigglymaster]

Even ignoring his one-inch punch, I think customs mii-brawler could be a contender for best in the game. Who are his bad MUs? .

His helicopter kick is better than piston punch anyways. It does 17% compared to PP's 10%. It also combos from d-throw, f-air, and u-air and it can kill at like 60% if done near the ledge on just about any of the cast. His moveset is fast overall, his horizontal recovery is almost ungimpable. He's medium weight, there is hardly any downsides to the character.

As for match-ups, I honestly don't see any matchup that he's weak in. I think he's better than Diddy IMO.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yes, not like I play the character or anything.


Not sure about the gunner eating the hydrant as you just reminded me that's the one thing I didn't test vs PacMan but otherwise, hydrants eating a projectile isn't necessarily true. The hydrant remains stagnant once landed and that doesn't stop a SH clay pigeon (smash goes further than tilt), a can simply shot over the hydrant, and the gunmen shots are transcendent priority and just go through it (and villager's tree as well). DH has the zoning advantage and Pac Man will need to approach thus reducing the whole endlessness of the matchup. Bonus Fruit Key goes through everything but with the time it takes to start up, it's not going to be spammed. Every other fruit gets canceled by the can/clay pigeon/gunman. The can doesn't blow up upon getting hit and Pac Man is fighting a losing battle if he's going to rely on the fruit for that.

Not true, see above.


I don't know if they're disjointed but I know DH definitely has disjointed aerials with the bair autocanceling, the dair being a good roll read punish, and the uair is a KO move. The fair has the most range and spaces a lot of stuff out incredibly well. His airgame isn't really weak either.

As for overall CQC, Pac Man does have the faster tilts and such but DH has a better grab game and fthrow can lead to some followups. Not to mention you can combo the throws with a nearby can.



Yes, but that's not the point entirely. While each character has the potential to be creative, some simply have more overall options to work with than others. This game isn't homogenous with each character given the same amount of tools and options. For DH, there's a number of interactions and traps you can setup with the can and gunmen that you simply can't do on other characters due to the uniqueness of the moves and the depth they allow. It's pretty ignorant to form this established opinion of the character and say "who cares, dog is still a bore" without actually taking the time to really examine his options. That's closed-minded thinking.

How could I be so blind.
You're right.
A fantastically interesting matchup.

 

[Nobie]

Watch some abadango gameplay on YouTube. The way he controls the stage is very different from them. And he approaches more often than DH

So what you're saying is that the match would be more awesome?

 

[Esquire]

Even ignoring his one-inch punch, I think customs mii-brawler could be a contender for best in the game. Who are his bad MUs?

Character Competitive Impressions

Going off of my analysis post from earlier, I believe the following characters give Mii Brawler the greatest hindrance:


Characters that excel at zoning, have elongated or disjointed hitboxes and can recover from being hit offstage offensively give Brawler the most trouble. Link is a good example of someone who has the tools to deal with Mii Brawler, as his sword exceeds Mii Brawler's reach greatly, his bombs prevent him from being absolute juggle bait, and his various other spacing tools (Clawshot, Boomerang, etc.) give Mii Brawler a hard time when trying to apply consistent pressure. I don't think these characters (besides Link and maybe DHD) have a clear advantage over Mii Brawler, but I think the fight tends to shift in their favor more than not.

 

[Nu~]

So what you're saying is that the match would be more awesome?

You tell me:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TlW9CWtsFjA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXTLaX53rc

 

[Locke 06]

You tell me:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TlW9CWtsFjA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WpXTLaX53rc

Your evidence is vs a bad Diddy and a Rosalina who doesn't know the matchup at all?

 

[Nu~]

Your evidence is against a bad Diddy and a Rosalina who doesn't know the matchup at all?

I kinda skimmed over abadango' s videos for footage,
But this is better

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3o_KoQyd6Uo

 

[NairWizard]

Here's an interesting question, since I've been playing Gunner lately.

Who wins the Brawler vs. Gunner matchup?

I vote Gunner.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Here's an interesting question, since I've been playing Gunner lately.

Who wins the Brawler vs. Gunner matchup?

I vote Gunner.

tall sword fighter and his marth range.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Here's an interesting question, since I've been playing Gunner lately.

Who wins the Brawler vs. Gunner matchup?

I vote Gunner.

Hard to say, as a Mii Brawler main I've never fought against a gunner, so I wouldn't really know.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just an FYI, Sakurai does attend japanese tournies and if Nintendo gets word of this list then lolol...**** the hero-king

The Dread-King Marth will be born. rofl. Brawl Marth fair is literally all he would need to shut down 85% of the cast. Told you stop stop bad mouthing Marth, Gheb. Now he is about to become your new overlord.

But yeah Marth/Lucina cant be bottom tier. It's literally impossible with their toolset.

Don't tell Nintendo though. I wanna see what they do with this.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Source, Emblem Lord?

Where does it say Sakurai attends these tourneys?

Smooth Criminal

 

[TTTTTsd]

If you think MARTH is gonna get buffed, look at where my man is.

Granted I doubt Sakurai attends these but hey, I'd like to see... =3

 

[Emblem Lord]

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...sh-bros-wii-u-used-official-tournament-japan/

 

[TTTTTsd]

Oh baby, when the japanese version drops are we getting a patch?

The excitement is gurgling in my throat, wonder what it'll be?

 

[san.]

Oh wait, the Wii U version hasn't been released in Japan yet? I guess that explains why certain characters were perceived to be so low still.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Oh baby, when the japanese version drops are we getting a patch?

The excitement is gurgling in my throat, wonder what it'll be?

It seems they're confusing the custom bow charge with the default charge time.

Even still.

If he is reading these lists then Sword Fighter is going to get the Shulk treatment.
Brb +% on everything.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Wow, Eventhubs...

Y'know, there's a good chance that was the Power Bow custom, as one of the other users pointed out.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gunla]

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...sh-bros-wii-u-used-official-tournament-japan/

Actually, that might be Power Bow, which has a longer charge time.

Can I get clarification if possible?

Edit: Yeah, it appears to be Power Bow.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Is it confirmed that customs were on? Is there any way to tell, lemme double check the video...

eeeeyup, LOL.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh wait, the Wii U version hasn't been released in Japan yet? I guess that explains why certain characters were perceived to be so low still.

Yep comes out TOMORROW for them. I was just talking to Gungnir about how we're both excited for the Japanese Wii-U release and how pretty things look on TV.

I would be really surprised if the game was patched this soon however. Patch 1.0.4. hasn't been out long.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Here's an interesting question, since I've been playing Gunner lately.

Who wins the Brawler vs. Gunner matchup?

I vote Gunner.

I actually played this matchup as Brawler in a Mii-only tournament a few weeks after 3DS release. I'd have to agree, I think Gunner has the edge.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yep comes out TOMORROW for them. I was just talking to Gungnir about how we're both excited for the Japanese Wii-U release and how pretty things look on TV.

I would be really surprised if the game was patched this soon however. Patch 1.0.4. hasn't been out long.

we need diddy dead urgently as it seems.

 

[Ffamran]

we need diddy dead urgently as it seems.

Diddy Must Die!

So, is Mii Gunner that good? If so, that explains why during Multi-Man Match Mii Gunners are generally more dangerous.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The fact that japan gets the wii u version the latest makes me think a patch is coming really really soon.

 

[Tristan_win]

The fact that japan gets the wii u version the latest makes me think a patch is coming really really soon.

Getting another patch so soon is so scary to me.

Like what if they think Sheik is still 'too good' and nerf her again and fail to give her any buffs in exchange. How would she continue to function? What would the point be to pick her?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Spoiler

I hope they buff Diddy in the next patch, give his aerials boosted Shield stun, and reduce the start-up of his attacks.
I've been monitoring tournament results and not everyone is using him and he's not winning every tournament.
Given this he is clearly in dire straits, and could probably use about 4-5 buffs.
First of all it's bull**** that Up air doesn't kill at 50%, Lucarios back air kills at 0% from the other side of the map, with perfect DI.
Second of all, it shouldn't even have knock back growth, it should just kill at 50%, maybe extra knock back on heavies so it kills Bowser at 47%. Third of all, peanuts should be transcendent priority because of nut allergies. Fourthly I believe people have been sleeping on his up-throw like they've been sleeping on every character in the game and Mewtwo who isn't even released yet, so that should be buffed so they wake up. Finally monkeys are better then Hedgehogs so he should be moved to tier 1 speed, to help his grab game, as like I said before he is in dire straits.

Finally I realized that the Levin Sword is only kind of ridiculous, and needs to be definitely ridiculous. So they should probably triple the hitstun, and double the knockback. I don't know any bubbles or eggs that can stop electricity either so shields should just break on contact.

Given the Japanese are just getting it, there very well may not be a patch? They'll probably want to do additional data collection?
Given it seems updating the 3ds version is seen as jarring and Sakurai seems to want to be as least disruptive as he can be. The real qualm would be if he is acknowledging the tournament scene, a significant patch before major tournaments would be incredibly disruptive.

 

[Chuva]

If all this theory about a patch ends up being a reality, and if that japanese tier list is any indicative of how they perceive the game balance, then let us prepare for another batch of mass Shulk buffing and thus his coronation as our new overlord

M O N A D O B O Y S

 

[NairWizard]

I agree, please make smash Monado not give opponents +knockback. That way only I get killthrows, and not the other guy. Would be perfect for Shulk balance.

Really.

Really it would.

 

[Luco]

I agree, please make smash Monado not give opponents +knockback. That way only I get killthrows, and not the other guy. Would be perfect for Shulk balance.

Really.

Really it would.

Brb changing this MU to -2 (hundred) after this update. =P

 

[Tagxy]

The fact that japan gets the wii u version the latest makes me think a patch is coming really really soon.

Or more likely, they wanted smash wii U out in America by one of the biggest shopping weekends (thanksgiving) and in the western continent during such an important holiday season.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

lol next patch ganon will be getting garenteed follow ups ff or air and ground choke into every option. all ariels are frame 1 and shiek level lag. down b will break shields and now has same kill potential as air down b. sparta kick kills at 100 on bowser. same with down tilt max stale. all smashes have super armor.

oh cant forget a killing up throw at 90
all hail ganondorf.

 

[Tagxy]

When I was in SoCal at the smash house over break, we jokingly talked about who would be the best character if patches and nerfs ended up being a thing and agreed it would be pikachu as the best solid character likely to avoid nerfs.

Jokes aside I think people assume nerfs/buffs will be more significant and common then people think. Shulk was assumed the worst by a decent margin and while he had some sizable buffs it wasnt really THAT big. The worst that can be said is other characters needed them more then he did, but shuffling his position between a low/mid tier and mid/high tier isnt really that big a deal even with all those changes, and I doubt we'll see the shulk treatment again.

 

[Shaya]

@ Emblem Lord

Look, Marth and Lucina are definitely bottom tier.
M2K (prior to losing to one), ZeRo and the Japan definitely know better :D
At this stage though, I definitely think Marth/Lucina are some of the most poorly tuned characters in this game though. But their kit is sho good it almost works still.

Brawl Fair, as in 8 frames landing lag? Welllllllll that would be pretty good at shutting down a lot of the cast but it would still be looking at -10 at best on shield.
I think making his short hop the same duration as Brawl would have a greater impact

If 1.05 is "real", then is the arrow change not there for people with the current wiiu version?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

@ Emblem Lord

Look, Marth and Lucina are definitely bottom tier.
M2K (prior to losing to one), ZeRo and the Japan definitely know better :D
At this stage though, I definitely think Marth/Lucina are some of the most poorly tuned characters in this game though. But their kit is sho good it almost works still.

Brawl Fair, as in 8 frames landing lag? Welllllllll that would be pretty good at shutting down a lot of the cast but it would still be looking at -10 at best on shield.
I think making his short hop the same duration as Brawl would have a greater impact

If 1.05 is "real", then is the arrow change not there for people with the current wiiu version?

part of ur comment just seems sarcastic. lol but i dunno marth in my opinion judt needs a punish tool and hes solid. anything to deal with rolls.

 

[Nobie]

I had the pleasure of fighting a ledge stalling Villager on FG, as described by someone earlier in this thread. I was on the 3DS as Mega Man, and found it almost impossible to hit him while he was on the ledge. Is this easier on the Wii U where the c-stick is available to avoid things like fast-falling?

Also, I assume that things would be different in a tournament setting where the opponent could not stall into Sudden Death.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They are intentionally chained down with limitations to keep them in check.

It is what it is.

@ Road Death Wheel

I am now convinced you are not playing the same game as us.