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Character Competitive Impressions

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SonicZeroX

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The problem is now if you grab someone and you have higher % and it's last stock, your opponent can purposely get the SD and the win.

And Dash claw has 0 recovery frames on landing. Even in patch 1.0.4
 

popsofctown

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Bowser would love to have DK's Kong Cyclone and Storm Punch. Bowser does have a nice custom in dash slam, but these customs DK's are just ridiculous imo.


DK also has more landing options imo. Down-air and down-b on Bowser are OK but predictable and punishable, far more than DK's d-air at least.


I quit DK for Bowser so I heartily disagree.
Bowser's custom3 down B is much faster, and you can easily head for the ledge with it making it incredibly safe. Mixing up between that, airdodge, and the lower part of fair's hitbox can help you land pretty well.

I wouldn't give up my projectile for Storm Punch.

Kong Cyclone is a good move but kind of cheesy and reliant on ignorance, and it doesn't have the OoS utility of Bowser's Sideb1 and Sideb3. It breaks even at best.



Dash slam is generally inferior to the claw, which can be waveslided into a grab if you want your side B to help you beat shields so there you go.
 

HeavyLobster

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Ask Sakurai for Sonic Boom's Sonic so that way he becomes slower, taller, and has a tether grab. :p
No. Sonic Boom Sonic also has the ability to stand on platforms that aren't there and has infinite jumps, making him basically ungimpable. He also randomly crashes the game.
 

NairWizard

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I quit DK for Bowser so I heartily disagree.
Bowser's custom3 down B is much faster, and you can easily head for the ledge with it making it incredibly safe. Mixing up between that, airdodge, and the lower part of fair's hitbox can help you land pretty well.

I wouldn't give up my projectile for Storm Punch.

Kong Cyclone is a good move but kind of cheesy and reliant on ignorance, and it doesn't have the OoS utility of Bowser's Sideb1 and Sideb3. It breaks even at best.
DK's side-b-2 is also a landing option that can snap the ledge, so on Bowser's side is down-b/down-air (basically the same option, down-b is just better; d-air has some use because of the persistent hitbox post-landing), n-air and part of f-air. On DK's side is down-b (this has lag though), d-air, b-air and n-air sometimes, and side-b of his own. If DK isn't taking Storm Punch, then that electrical punch (whatever standard-b 2 is called) charges extremely quickly and can serve as a good landing option. On the other hand, Bowser's side-b dash kl/am is good for avoiding juggles. On thinking about it, landing options are probably pretty even.

Disagree entirely on Kong Cyclone. Relying entirely on it is as your bread-and-butter move is not a reliable way to play the neutral game, I agree, but it punishes airdodges and landings like no other move in the game, and the properties on the move are mathematically better than just about any other move I can think of (speed, distance traveled, armor: I had a Kong Cyclone eat through Link's d-air with the armor on it and kill Link off the top on Yoshi's). On stages with platforms it also autocancels so punishing it is extremely difficult.

Nothing that Bowser has is really comparable: up-b 3 is hard to punish and can catch some landings, and up-b 1 is a good punish move, but Kong Cyclone imo just flat out annihilates both of these moves head to head.

Bowser's big fireball is pretty mediocre, imo, if that's what you mean by projectile. He loses control over his body for a time while he's firing it; if he could fire it slightly faster or if he didn't lose control, it would be great. Fire breath version 2 recharges too slowly for me to even consider. Fire breath 1 is pretty decent, but there's no way I consider it better than Storm Punch. Storm Punch can completely destroy rolls away and landing attempts when fully or near fully charged. Characters often try to create quick space DK and themselves (because being close to a large/heavy character when you're not in advantage or literally on top of that character in general is pretty dangerous), and Storm Punch capitalizes on that. Combined with DK's b-air and d-air, Storm Punch leads to some sick surprise KOs/gimps.

It's no Tempest, of course (Ike is a beast), but it's better than what Bowser has imo.

Not necessarily saying that DK crushes Bowser or anything, but it's far from one-sided in Bowser's favor. Normals are arguable. I'd take DK's d-tilt, f-tilt, up-tilt, up-air, d-air, and even b-air (in some MUs) over Bowser's equivalent moves, but I'd take Bowser's f-air, jab, f-smash, and b-air (in some other MUs). D-smash and up-smash are arguable.
 
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TTTTTsd

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No. Sonic Boom Sonic also has the ability to stand on platforms that aren't there and has infinite jumps, making him basically ungimpable. He also randomly crashes the game.
There's a downside though, he definitely can fall through solid ground randomly as well.

Also as for Bowser v. DK, far from free IMO. Close to even because they're both gods of spacing, might shift in Bowser's favor with customs but DK has good customs too. Kong Cyclone isn't really relying on ignorance, but I will concede that it only works really good on Battlefield, otherwise don't bother.
 
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Big O

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Vectoring is officially dead and replaced by Melee/Brawl DI. I wonder how this will change things....
 

Thinkaman

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Vectoring. You can't do it anymore.

Holding down after being hit no longer makes you survive longer vertically.
 

KlefkiHolder

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And we have old DI as well still.

Though, its weak, but there.
 

Emblem Lord

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Marths reign begins.

No one shall survive the might of the Dragon Slayer.
 

Shaya

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So people saying

"Marth's dancing blade works again" and "Marth's throws combo!!"
were probably completely and utterly correct; IT WASN'T CONFIRMATION BIAS AFTER ALL~

This may be bad in some situations perhaps though. I'm pretty sure people who tended to hold down often ****ed themselves when getting hit by fairs/tilts because it knocked them into the ground. Maybe that will be less pronounced?
 
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Big O

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Depending on whether or not SDI was buffed to compensate, I am pretty worried about DK and Ganon basically being combo fodder. We shall see.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Marth fanboys getting ahead of themselves as always. Not even knowing how Marth performs as a character in tournament or even fundamentally works but already fantasizing about him becoming the amazing character he never was and will probably never be.

Looks like history is repeating itself.

:059:
 

-RedX-

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If VI is gone, that means Ike is KOing with Uthrow at certain percents. Although the followup is fairly strict.

All your shields are belong to us.
 

Emblem Lord

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My man. Im hype because i will be able to dtilt a shield and punish actions on reaction and not deal with latency.

Also you cant argue his tournament results though i personally never had him as top tier.
 
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Shaya

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Marth fanboys getting ahead of themselves as always. Not even knowing how Marth performs as a character in tournament or even fundamentally works but already fantasizing about him becoming the amazing character he never was and will probably never be.

Looks like history is repeating itself.

:059:
I'm already using/winning in tournament <3
But I don't think my post inferred "TOP TIER", just a "nice" thing. Calm your farm friend haha.
Marth is amazing, but he can be an amazing last place in the game for all I care, Marth players dominating your continent for years still has you overly aggressive/salty about your "theory" and "opinions" of Marth being bad not being true haha.
 
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Emblem Lord

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Marth fanboys getting ahead of themselves as always. Not even knowing how Marth performs as a character in tournament or even fundamentally works but already fantasizing about him becoming the amazing character he never was and will probably never be.

Looks like history is repeating itself.

:059:
Also you should probably watch your words before sakurai swoops and buffs marth or something.
 

san.

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There are a few more friend spaces left, Marth. :4myfriends:


If VI is gone, that means Ike is KOing with Uthrow at certain percents. Although the followup is fairly strict.

All your shields are belong to us.
Indeed. Only reliable at very low rage above 75%, though, to true combo. Even if it doesn't true combo, uair covers almost all options if we arrive there in time after the throw, even at very high %.
 
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Yonder

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Marth fanboys getting ahead of themselves as always. Not even knowing how Marth performs as a character in tournament or even fundamentally works but already fantasizing about him becoming the amazing character he never was and will probably never be.

Looks like history is repeating itself.

:059:

Idk, Marth fans always seem to be the most obsessive about their character's tier status having to be top for some reason and never reason for lower (Peach fans too). I still think Marth is a lower high at best. His reign is over. There are just several or more better characters than him this time around (ZSS, Rosa, Diddy, Lucario, Sonic, dunno about Greninja anymore...Yoshi, etc.

He will always be better than Lucina though, I think. Lucina is more of an upper mid.
 

Emblem Lord

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Where are marths obsessive about his tier? We are obsessive about numbers and stats for sure. But his char rank? I dont see it. We readily understood his nerfs excluded him from top tier. Man you bout to get my regalness in a bunch.
 

A2ZOMG

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Cant tell if serious or...
Custom Marth vs Custom Sonic. I'd believe Marth is one of the better characters for handling Sonic at this rate. You can force him to not be completely dishonest with Spindash shenanigans.
 
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Shaya

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There are a few more friend spaces left, Marth. :4myfriends:
:4marth:: Let's be friends, just need to sign off on joining the Fabulous Empire, it comes with lots of fringe benefits:4myfriends:
:4lucina:1: Yeah, I'll babysit your kids and get one of the other 7 waifus to drive you to tournaments Ike!
:4lucina:5: I'm good at cooking too, my eggs are consistently cooked throughout the entire fry pan.
:4lucina:2: I have to babysit myself because my mother is an asshole.

Dash Assault is pretty good against characters without projectiles who like JUMPING, that's for sure.
Don't think it's enough to just beat Sonic though. Like, I wouldn't want the move against DK, who just stays commitment-less and relies on shield, unless they start jumping I guess (but they currently don't). Sonic can do the same well enough I'd say.



Marth is fine in this game, he's still a character that wins doing things correctly, but he's more restricted than before and the diversity of new options in the top tier are just more consistent/powerful.
 
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Ultimastrike

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I'm still kinda off about Lucina, though. It's like she's not really meant for tournament play and is just someone to get used to Marth's gameplay in particular. That, and she doesn't really differentiate other than the damage she has compared to Marth(where tippers rue everyone's day).
 

Locke 06

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Custom Marth vs Custom Sonic. I'd believe Marth is one of the better characters for handling Sonic at this rate. You can force him to not be completely dishonest with Spindash shenanigans.
One lemon cancels spindash. Haven't faced a good sonic, but if you want someone who can make him honest with spindashes, mega man fits the bill on paper.
 

A2ZOMG

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One lemon cancels spindash. Haven't faced a good sonic, but if you want someone who can make him honest with spindashes, mega man fits the bill on paper.
Y'know, I keep forgetting that Mega Man is a fairly solid character as long as you don't have a reflector or win a projectile war against him. Though inconsistent KO options hinder him.
 
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M@v

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^That's correct. Doc's Tornado does indeed beat out spin dash. I think pills can too although I don't remember 100%. It may only be on startup. I'd have to test it out again.
 
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AvariceX

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No vectoring is gonna make Ness stupidly good as if he wasn't already. I can't main you again Ness, you were too hard on my heart in Brawl, stop tempting me!
 

SonicZeroX

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Y'know, I keep forgetting that Mega Man is a fairly solid character as long as you don't have a reflector or win a projectile war against him. Though inconsistent KO options hinder him.
At least the removal of vectoring is a buff to anyone who has a long lasting kill move like Megaman's Usmash. Before it was easy to react on getting hit and just hold down to survive it like 30% higher.
 

Locke 06

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Y'know, I keep forgetting that Mega Man is a fairly solid character as long as you don't have a reflector or win a projectile war against him. Though inconsistent KO options hinder him.
Reflectors aren't really much of an issue, as it just limits fsmash usage (no fsmash landing traps).
KO's can be an issue, but he's got that MK Bair and can go deep with his recovery. Also, his 6 frame uppercut just got a big buff due to the removal of VI.
 

NairWizard

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Played some Ike dittos (and other matches) with @ san. san. today, Ike with customs is every bit as beastly as I thought (having played Ike only two days myself). I had a very hard time gimping Ike as multiple characters, and f-air is just so massive, I wasn't sure what to do besides try to shieldgrab it, but if Ike lands perfectly with it he can put you in his d-tilt range but outside of your grab range, and his d-tilt is disjointed so he'll win against your own. It's very difficult to recover high, too, and I almost felt forced to recover high because whenever I tried to recover low, Tempest was there to blow away my recovery. One read from Ike kills you, as it always has in the past, only now on top of having devastating reads he also has quite a few combos and strings that he can use on you.

He does seem a little vulnerable to followups himself, though, like multiple Diddy up-airs.

But this character just takes stage control so easily.
 
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