Character Competitive Impressions

[Nidtendofreak]

Why helloooooooooo Ike in upper mid tier if not higher.

 

[NotLiquid]

Sheik and Greninja got gutted, Sonic and Rosalina got a couple of potshots here and there, Zero Suit Samus had her movekit completed, and Yoshi and Diddy didn't really get anything.

Top 8's gonna see some adjustments.

Although Rosalina's nerf is subtle it's ultimately a relatively large gamechanger for her. I feel like she got knocked down a peg in a big way as well.

Diddy, ZSS, Sonic and Yoshi are probably going nowhere. Even though Sonic got a slight nerf with longer cooldowns on his dash attack/UAir, most of his changes right now seem balanced out with a better DSmash and more powerful UAir (allegedly).

 

[Signia]

Why helloooooooooo Ike in upper mid tier if not higher.

Shulk and Marth got some buffs, too. Smash Calibur is back baby

 

[Chuva]

Well, the difference is people don't talk about DK and D3 as top tier candidates.

I dont remember seeing people seriously claim Bowser is on par with the Yoshis and Diddys since after the 3ds invititational with the Bowser grand finals hype dissipated.

I don't think they're dominant characters but they're perfectly relevant and viable in a competitive environement. We've yet to see theory-DK with customs in competitive play, but all points to a great character since his default version is already solid. I think this iteration of Smash is the best for heavy characters, be it because of individuals buffs or because of how they capitalize of single hits in an engine that rewards hard-reads.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Shulk and Marth got some buffs, too. Smash Calibur is back baby

I tried his Fair in training mode.

I actually started giggling. Its almost too fast now. Its completely throwing me off. And his Dtilt? So good. AND his basically has his base Jab game from Brawl back.

He's great now.

 

[Jabejazz]

I dont remember seeing people seriously claim Bowser is on par with the Yoshis and Diddys since after the 3ds invititational with the Bowser grand finals hype dissipated.

I don't think they're dominant characters but they're perfectly relevant and viable in a competitive environement. We've yet to see theory-DK with customs in competitive play, but all points to a great character since his default version is already solid. I think this iteration of Smash is the best for heavy characters, be it because of individuals buffs or because of how they capitalize of single hits in an engine that rewards hard-reads.

I agree with you, but the debate about Bowser revolved around his relevance as a top tier character, not about arguing if the character was garbage or not.

All heavy share polarized stats that allows them to thrive on hard reads and gain a solid advantage when they trade, but sluggish move sets/character frames that translate into combo fodder. A kit where you have a blatant flaw that can be capitalized on is a good sign you can't be one of the better characters. (Obviously not always, but you get the idea).

Whether Bowser is viable or not is another topic entirely.

 

[NairWizard]

Should I main Ike or Shulk....Ike or Shulk....Ike or....

 

[The Real Gamer]

Should I main Ike or Shulk....Ike or Shulk....Ike or....

Depends... Do you fight for your friends or for the feels?

 

[Conda]

Shulk feels more main-worthy if not just due to monado arts and playstyle options imo. Ike has an optimal playstyle due to his kit being very focused, but I think shulk is much more free to do what he wants.

 

[NairWizard]

Depends... Do you fight for your friends or for the feels?

Ugh, there are too many viable characters/fighting philosophies in this game!
I can't do this!

Robin is buffed by virtue of her difficult matchups all having been nerfed, she's definitely top 5 now if she wasn't before guys

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Depends... Do you fight for your friends or for the feels?

To change my destiny. This is the Monados power.

The swordsman meta is here and its glorious.
Spacing and counters galore.
Only to beat by surprise rock smashes of "can't touch this".

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ugh, there are too many viable characters/fighting philosophies in this game!
I can't do this!

Robin is buffed by virtue of her difficult matchups all having been nerfed, she's definitely top 5 now if she wasn't before guys

1) Go into Training Mode

2) Use Fair. Laugh wildly.

3) Mash Dtilt. Be amazed.

4) Combo Nair into Bair. See how easy it is.

5) Spam Ftilt. Be... slightly impressed by its slight improvement.

6) Jab all of the things.

7) Fight for your friends

8)????

9) Profit!

 

[san.]

I don't really count frames, but Ike's dtilt feels like it's + on block and if not, close to it.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Even MK seems to have been buffed quite a bit... I don't think there's a single bad swordsman in this game anymore.

This game really is Soul Calibur now.

 

[NairWizard]

I don't really count frames, but Ike's dtilt feels like it's + on block and if not, close to it.

Urge to fight for friends rising...

edit: WHOA, just noticed how massively MK was buffed. WOW.

edit2: I bet all the swordsmen had low for glory win %s because of projectile spammers

 

[Jabejazz]

Even MK seems to have been buffed quite a bit... I don't think there's a single bad swordsman in this game anymore.

This game really is Soul Calibur now.

Truly a terrible day to be alive.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I almost wish Zard had a sword now.

Spoiler

Sakurai pls

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Truly a terrible day to be alive.

Better be sarcasm. Swordsman ftw.

I almost wish Zard had a sword now.

Spoiler

Sakurai pls

I can smell the OP

 

[TTTTTsd]

Meta Knight has some nice changes but does his sword really qualify when the range is bad enough for it to be like, maybe Luigi Ftilt?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm taking a guess with why they nerfed Dragon Rush, at 15% I was thinking it was slowly going to be the go to option for him, pretty much better than all his other side B's even if it didn't kill like Flare Blitz did.

They added more of a trade off by the looks of it.

So far he got 1 nerf but I'm not sure with his frame data right now or hitboxes which might have been changed, my guess on hitboxes is a no.

 

[Jabejazz]

Better be sarcasm. Swordsman ftw.

If only.

If they buff Ganon, then I can technically main a stupid Swordsman as well.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I guess Mii Swordfighter doesn't count, or we shunned him from the family.

Not that I blame anyone.

 

[NairWizard]

Reports on Marth's buffs confirmed to be false, so there's at least one swordsman who didn't gain anything.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I guess Mii Swordfighter doesn't count, or we shunned him from the family.

Not that I blame anyone.

I ALWAYS forget about the Swordfighter. xD

I say we shun him to the Shadow Realm for good.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I guess Mii Swordfighter doesn't count, or we shunned him from the family.

Not that I blame anyone.

The second Link clone?
Forgot him.

For all we know he is buffed but no one checked

 

[NairWizard]

Lucina confirmed to have a tipper now on at least f-smash and f-tilt, and the hitlag modifiers on all her attacks have been adjusted to match Marth's.


I'm just kidding don't hurt me Shaya

 

[Emblem Lord]

To all my Fire Emblem brothers...

This is our time. Now we strike fear into the hearts of all other character mains. This is our destiny. Sally forth my brethren.

TOGETHER WE RIDE!!!!

 

[Thinkaman]

It's interesting and reassuring that the patch changes seemed to be based off the same overall conclusions of power level that we had, even though this was done with no discussion with the western world and finalized at least 3-4 weeks ago.

 

[Chuva]

All this Soul Calibur talk, and no buffs (that I know of) to the true and only Soul Calibur character in this game? How fraudulent.


(in case you didn't play Soul Calibur II)

 

[The Real Gamer]

It's interesting and reassuring that the patch changes seemed to be based off the same overall conclusions of power level that we had, even though this was done with no discussion with the western world and finalized at least 3-4 weeks ago.

Yeah its strange you'd almost think they read the forums prior to making these changes.

 

[otter]

DK>Bowser.

 

[NairWizard]

It's interesting and reassuring that the patch changes seemed to be based off the same overall conclusions of power level that we had, even though this was done with no discussion with the western world and finalized at least 3-4 weeks ago.

This reassures me more that we aren't wrong rather than that Nintendo is right. Their balance team seems pretty good this time around; we saw that when the game was released.

 

[xquqx]

Yeah its strange you'd almost think they read the forums prior to making these changes.

What a scary thought.

 

[Deathcarter]

All this Soul Calibur talk, and no buffs (that I know of) to the true and only Soul Calibur character in this game? How fraudulent.


(in case you didn't play Soul Calibur II)

Link's new Toon Link f-smash FTW!!!

 

[Iron Kraken]

After seeing the list of RosaLuma changes, I feel that she is clearly not the #1 character anymore. Maybe not even top 5.

Nerfs:
-4 second increase in respawn timer
-Weakened Up-Smash
-Weakened Nair
-More cool down on Down-Smash
-More cool down on grab
-D-tilt hitbox is nerfed significantly
-Luma can't hit during a throw animation (although can still prevent pummeling)
-No lingering hit box at the end of Luma Shot

Buffs:
-Luma Shot sends out Luma at less distance
-Luma recall is faster
-Reduced knock back of Nair possibly means easier follow up potential

Overall, she has clearly been nerfed in a big way. I expect Dabuz to give up on her and that we won't see her used nearly as much in competitive play as other top tier characters.

Diddy seriously got no nerfs? We have a new ruler of Smash 4.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Rosaluma nair change is arguably a buff from what I gather.

Peach seems to have had pretty much all of her jank removed. Landing lag turnip cancels, ledge canceled turnip pulls, unstaled floating aerials, the footstool combos, all apparently gone. That'll take her down a notch if she didn't get anything in return.

 

[NairWizard]

After seeing the list of RosaLuma changes, I feel that she is clearly not the #1 character anymore. Maybe not even top 5.

Nerfs:
-4 second increase in respawn timer
-Weakened Up-Smash
-Weakened Nair
-More cool down on Down-Smash
-More cool down on grab
-D-tilt hitbox is nerfed significantly
-Luma can't hit during a throw animation (although can still prevent pummeling)
-No lingering hit box at the end of Luma Shot

Buffs:
-Luma Shot sends out Luma at less distance
-Luma recall is faster

Overall, she has clearly been nerfed in a big way. I expect Dabuz to give up on her and that we won't see her used nearly as much in competitive play as other top tier characters.

Diddy seriously got no nerfs? We have a new ruler of Smash 4.

The Luma not being able to hit during a throw animation thing is more significant than the pummeling thing that we thought was going to happen because of command grabs.

Yeah, Diddy got buffed by receiving no nerfs. Rosalina and Sheik were his worst match-ups, and they've been nerfed. Sheik very importantly lost some of her KO power, and losing KO power against Diddy is huge. Needles have lag now, so this is probably in Diddy's favor.
Rosalina can't hit Diddy out of his command grab any more, and alongside the d-smash and d-tilt nerfs I honestly don't see how Diddy doesn't win this matchup now. The weakened up-smash just adds to it.
After that, Greninja and Yoshi were his second-worst, imo, and they got nerfed (Greninja is basically nonexistent now, or should be, and Yoshi is tuned down a bit). Diddy vs. Greninja is in Diddy's favor. Diddy vs. Yoshi was probably even anyway, or close to it.

Diddy vs. Ike just got a whole lot worse, though.

 

[Deleted member]

I see Greninja falling from top 8 to top 20-25 with this patch. He really got hit hard. USmash has no interruptible frames which really hurts him, since it was arguably his best move, no canceling aerial landing lag with Shadow Sneak (for the mixups), Hydro Gimp got hit hard, Uair can't sling spike, and Shadow Sneak no longer can avoid certain some hits of some attacks. I agree with everything here except for how much his hydro gimp's wind box got nerfed and how much lag he suffers on USmash. If USmash got a bit less lag from its current state and Hydro Pump should have a tad more of a wind box. Now Greninja just seems a bit obsolete, which is saddening since he was my most hyped character.

EDIT: Peach is gonna drop as well. No more 0 to death with turnips, moves stale while floating, turnip ledge canceling is out, and the lag reduction with turnips (applies to Link and Toon Link's bombs) is gone.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

After seeing the list of RosaLuma changes, I feel that she is clearly not the #1 character anymore. Probably not even top 5.

Nerfs:
-4 second increase in respawn timer
-Weakened Up-Smash
-Weakened Nair
-More cool down on Down-Smash
-More cool down on grab
-D-tilt hitbox is nerfed significantly
-Luma can't hit during a throw animation (although can still prevent pummeling)
-No lingering hit box at the end of Luma Shot

Buffs:
-Luma Shot sends out Luma at less distance
-Luma recall is faster

Overall, she has clearly been nerfed in a big way. I expect Dabuz to give up on her and that we won't see her used nearly as much in competitive play as other top tier characters.

Diddy seriously got no nerfs? We have a new ruler of Smash 4.

It's unclear if up smash was straight up nerfed or if the knockback is merely at a different angle. (Which, given how it was straight vertical before is still a bit of a nerf but oh well.) It also appears to affect only Rosalina's up smash, not Luma's.

Nair is arguably a buff since all her other aerials were better at killing anyway and now we can follow up from low % nair hits.

Point on down smash and grab cooldowns, although I haven't had a chance to really play around and see how they feel.

No comment on dtilt, haven't even tried it yet.

Luma being unable to hit out of throw animations is a nerf but still better than what I thought would happen (namely, preventing pummels) so I'm coming out of this ahead.

No lingering hitbox at the end of Luma Shot...I think was already a thing to a certain degree, actually. Not entirely sure but I remember P1 and P2 started out just far enough on FD for me to notice.

So yes, overall nerfed, but IMO not badly enough to suddenly make her bad. Other characters may be stronger candidates for "best in the game," oh no.

 

[NairWizard]

I doubt that anything significant will happen to Peach: all of what makes her a strong character (KO power, safety on shield, turnips, floating above many attacks) are still in the game and quite strong.