Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^Just sideB.

Marth's nair eat's Falcon alive.
PETA

Better for shield's to prevent him from jumping out of shield than approaches or countering aerial approaches.

 

[MasterShake]

Hey guys what are your close match clutch strategies?

Anything in particular that you save so that you catch the opponent off guard?

I'm really into aerial close in on shield to dolphin slash. People are much more likely to shield grab on last stock if they think it'll win them the game.

 

[Mahie]

I try to keep away from anything that's not visually guaranteed, so no clutch strategies here.

I guess sometimes I don't mind dash in on their shield, dash out pivot fsmash.

 

[Tee ay eye]

randall is my close match clutch strategy

even on stages that aren't YS

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I suicide....sigh

 

[Bones0]

Near the end of a grueling 25 minute MM set, I am forced to use my secret clutch strategy. See the journey from my last stock all the way up to the BEST NAIR YOU'VE EVER SEEN!

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

My favorite is throwing them up and watching them panic

 

[Battlecow]

Near the end of a grueling 25 minute MM set, I am forced to use my secret clutch strategy. See the journey from my last stock all the way up to the BEST NAIR YOU'VE EVER SEEN!

but but but the video

 

[odinNJ]

I've always liked running
Past my
Opponent and pivot fsmashing randomly for a random Lols last stock starter

 

[triforcemarth279]

Hey I'm really new to the smash community (First post on smashboards!) and I've been playing some really good peaches compared to me and was wondering what I should do when I'm not close to them. When I try and camp they just camp me back and throw turnips until I come at them and when I go after them I normally full hop cause when I sh they just dash attack my feet, and then when I'm coming at them with a fh a lot of the time they will shield my ff fair or nair and then shield grab me (I think this is due to bad spacing on my part) or they will jump at me and throw a turnip while following up with a nair so that if I hit the turnip with a fair or nair I will just get hit by the peach's well timed nair that is following it. So I guess my question is what is the best way to approach peach?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MasterShake]

Turnips are pretty bad projectiles. Practice z catching them, you really don't have a reason to approach peach. You can though, since Marth outranges her so well. As for how, idk.

 

[MT_]

Hey I'm really new to the smash community (First post on smashboards!) and I've been playing some really good peaches compared to me and was wondering what I should do when I'm not close to them. When I try and camp they just camp me back and throw turnips until I come at them and when I go after them I normally full hop cause when I sh they just dash attack my feet, and then when I'm coming at them with a fh a lot of the time they will shield my ff fair or nair and then shield grab me (I think this is due to bad spacing on my part) or they will jump at me and throw a turnip while following up with a nair so that if I hit the turnip with a fair or nair I will just get hit by the peach's well timed nair that is following it. So I guess my question is what is the best way to approach peach?

Thanks in advance!

Sounds like you're playing the air game WAYY too much. You generally want to stay grounded against peach, especially if peach herself is on the ground. Space just outside of Peach's dash attack range so that you're able to make her wary about pulling turnips and primarily use d-tilt/DD grab to zone her to the edge. You outrange her hard and Peach can't really get past Marth's range from the air without the aid of a turnip so she'll usually try to sneak in dash attacks. When you see the dash attack coming just shieldgrab it or DD grab it, or if you call it super early you can always just dtilt.

You don't really want to camp Peach because her approach is quite strong when you give her time to set up (turnips and ****). You have to sort of zone aggressively (on the ground!) so that she never gets any free turnip pulls or approaches on you. Save your own aerials for when Peach jumps, not for approaching when she's on the ground.

 

[Deleted member]

My favorite is throwing them up and watching them panic

this and fairing opponents aerials

also fairing their aerials into throwing them up and watching them panic.

this char is alarmingly simple sometimes.

 

[Dr Peepee]

yeah I'm tryin to do my moves into grabs now

that's gonna be that fire(no one expects the run up grab[I recall Niko suggesting WD up grab it probably works for similar reasons])


also I'm gonna WD back more because that is some broken marth stuff(not sure why yet but it works vs everything)



yes I know this is some groundbreaking(simple and everyone knows about it) stuff, but I'm focusing in on it and I think cool things will come from it so there's something for discussion =)

 

[ShroudedOne]

MT's advice is spot on. Letting her pull turnips is BAD for you. Be close enough to punish her turnips, while being just outside dash attack.

Also, dtilt ***** her for some odd reason. I'm still trying to figure it out, but forcing her into the air (which dtilt does) is amazing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

My favorite is throwing them up and watching them panic

That's pretty good, assuming you have some follow up worth panicking about (for example, most puff players won't panic when you up-throw them).

 

[Deleted member]

also I'm gonna WD back more because that is some broken marth stuff(not sure why yet but it works vs everything)

1. you forfeit very little stage control when marth WDes back because you're still covering your stronger front with grab/fair/dtilt/dash options without much threat of getting pinned, without needing to jump, and without forfeiting crouch in case your timing is off

2. marth's range advantage on nearly every char forces those characters to 1. wait for you to whiff an attack or 2. overcompensate or overextend to beat that range. you're not stupid so you don't do #1 so the best option your opponents have is to overextend, which is exactly the kind of motion you're going for with WD back.

as usual, the correct answer is that it's low risk high reward positional advantage. probably very mediocre marths could use WD back as a crutch and get away with it as long as they're not swinging blindly otherwise.

i can name a few of the top of my head. you can too.

 

[Bones0]

What about WD back vs. Falco? I feel like it doesn't help at all if he SHLed towards you because... well... the laser doesn't care about spacing.

 

[Deleted member]

What about WD back vs. Falco? I feel like it doesn't help at all if he SHLed towards you because... well... the laser doesn't care about spacing.

you have to be trolling at this point. there's no way you actually believe the things you post. i don't believe you.

 

[Bones0]

I'm trolling because I asked about the utility of WD back vs. Falco (or more specifically, his lasers)?

That's a deep troll.

 

[odinNJ]

I love I when People whiff aerials right at my feet because I either dd'd correctly or backdashed.
Just the panic in the moment they know that I can use any move I want

 

[Dr Peepee]

1. you forfeit very little stage control when marth WDes back because you're still covering your stronger front with grab/fair/dtilt/dash options without much threat of getting pinned, without needing to jump, and without forfeiting crouch in case your timing is off

2. marth's range advantage on nearly every char forces those characters to 1. wait for you to whiff an attack or 2. overcompensate or overextend to beat that range. you're not stupid so you don't do #1 so the best option your opponents have is to overextend, which is exactly the kind of motion you're going for with WD back.

as usual, the correct answer is that it's low risk high reward positional advantage. probably very mediocre marths could use WD back as a crutch and get away with it as long as they're not swinging blindly otherwise.

i can name a few of the top of my head. you can too.

I hadn't considered quite all of that. Thanks!

I felt people would feel pulled in and Marth DID have a great dash and ground tools so that pull could be switched to a push very easily, but I hadn't considered it as deeply as this. Marth's WD is insane lol I ALWAYS get great reward when I use it. I really need to mess with it more.

My only eh qualm is that I don't like giving up stage but honestly I've decided I need to be a tiny bit more flexible about that to expand my game so this is probably exactly what I need. =)

What about WD back vs. Falco? I feel like it doesn't help at all if he SHLed towards you because... well... the laser doesn't care about spacing.

WD back at appropriate timings to punish Falco's laser in. WD back OOS after a laser hits it or after taking a laser to punish Falco's approach. It works.

The mixup is when Falco does what Mango did and just keeps shooting lol. Then you WD back OOS early/late(depending on definition at this point) then move up quickly to catch their adjustment laser forward and hit them/trade with the laser.

 

[Bones0]

but but but the video

It got reuploaded. It's still being processed, I think.

WD back at appropriate timings to punish Falco's laser in. WD back OOS after a laser hits it or after taking a laser to punish Falco's approach. It works.

The mixup is when Falco does what Mango did and just keeps shooting lol. Then you WD back OOS early/late(depending on definition at this point) then move up quickly to catch their adjustment laser forward and hit them/trade with the laser.

Okay, I'll try that, thanks.

 

[Deleted member]

I hadn't considered quite all of that. Thanks!

I felt people would feel pulled in and Marth DID have a great dash and ground tools so that pull could be switched to a push very easily, but I hadn't considered it as deeply as this. Marth's WD is insane lol I ALWAYS get great reward when I use it. I really need to mess with it more.

My only eh qualm is that I don't like giving up stage but honestly I've decided I need to be a tiny bit more flexible about that to expand my game so this is probably exactly what I need. =)

giving up stage from a falco mindset is a very dangerous thing to do often. he gets pinned to the side of a stage easier than marth, often needs to jump out to escape which is also inherently risky, and is way more frail than marth is. falco's crouch is also much better if your opponent approaches with some vertical aspect. i don't have to explain these things, you just know them.

for marth, you can make better use of WD back against opponents that are properly aggressive, aka players like you. your regular playstyle with falco is the kind that marth WD back is good against. that doesn't necessarily mean that you're losing to it, but i could see the tactic being annoying for you by mediocre players that you would otherwise just obliterate with Gay Bird Feet ™.

you probably always get rewarded because of some combination of 1. you're either using it in the right positions or 2. it's super safe and good and you're much better than your opponents are anyway.

 

[leffen]

Its always funny when people don't realize that falcos laser has startup

 

[Divinokage]

Ya finally I figured that out! lol.. Now knowing that allows you to shut down Falco if you are careful with positioning.. can't get too close because you get owned or not too far where he can keep shooting at will. That position is probably the crappiest for Falco.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Its always funny when people don't realize that falcos laser has startup

How many frames of startup? Not trying to be a wiseguy; I'm genuinely curious.

Smooth Criminal

 

[ShroudedOne]

Airborne lasers come out on frame 13.

The startup is also dependent on when the Falco shoots during his jump.

 

[Ether]

MT's advice is spot on. Letting her pull turnips is BAD for you. Be close enough to punish her turnips, while being just outside dash attack.

Also, dtilt ***** her for some odd reason. I'm still trying to figure it out, but forcing her into the air (which dtilt does) is amazing.

I think it's better to let her pull turnips.

-You can nair through them, and if you use Z, you can catch and drop turnips and THEN nair. If you mess up the timing, you still nair through the turnip.

-When she has a turnip, she doesn't have a dash attack or a grab. She also might try to jump at you more for aerial turnip to float cancel fair, which you'll nair straight through and juggle.

-You can occassionally hit her right as she's pulling a turnip.


Peach slows down tremendously when she pulls turnips. Won't see them doing crazy dash dancing or anything when they pull 'em.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ether wanna MM

 

[Ether]

I kind of do. My Marth vs. your Sheik, best of 5, $5?

edit - alternatively, if you win, you win $5, but if I win, you team with me next event we both go to. o_O

 

[Arcadia157]

Oh my jesus please have this recorded.

 

[Ether]

If I go to Apex, I'll bring my recording setup. But I'm still unconfirmed, leaning towards no. =\

 

[KirbyKaze]

why you no go to apex

 

[Ether]

eh, money. It'll be about $150 to go. And I could spend it, but on the other hand, I could spend it more wisely.

edit - I also don't want to be a scrub who doesn't go because of money, so hence the internal struggle, lol

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

dude, if you have more important **** to do then go do it.

don't be like those people who are like, "I don't really smoke weed, but my friends are pressuring me. I don't want to be a ***** and NOT smoke"

 

[MT_]

KirbyKaze will you money match me? $5

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Ether wanna MM

I kind of do. My Marth vs. your Sheik, best of 5, $5?

edit - alternatively, if you win, you win $5, but if I win, you team with me next event we both go to. o_O

Honestly, having played kk's and m2k's sheik at ROM, and having watched Ether play m2k's sheik. I gotta say I like Ether to win this. Hey, Ether, just pull up that video you recorded on your phone. lol.

Not to say you aren't a beast KK, but you did tell me a few things that I would repeat, but you didn't want them to be widespread knowledge, I just hope you remember so you know where I'm coming from.

 

[Ether]

dude, if you have more important **** to do then go do it.

don't be like those people who are like, "I don't really smoke weed, but my friends are pressuring me. I don't want to be a ***** and NOT smoke"

lol, I like this.

also, are you THE kfc? dude, I admire your marth so freaking much, but there are so few vids of you. Do you play anymore?

edit x2 - just checked my paycheck for this week, looks like I'm getting paid big time, so I'm going to get with the MD/VA guys driving to Apex and work out the details, because I just might be going after all.

 

[S l o X]

ether + christmas bonus = everyone happy