Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Zephynazo]

Ok so if mango picked up link and won a tournament with him, you would think link should move up on the tier list?

Marth is number 2 in this game. He is better than falco, he is better than sheik, and all of them are better than puff. Mango is just really good. Hbox too. Puff is above samus, but hugs beat lucky. OMG SAMUS IS A TOP TIER CHARACTER!!!

He may be 2 in NTSC, but in PAL he is 4.

Imo he should be 3rd og 4th in NTSC as well. Sheik and Fox is def better. He is prolly equal with Falco or something.

 

[Niko45]

Tiers are so, so dumb. Completely irrelevant compared to individual player skill and individual character matchups.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No one has a reason to complain about their own character. They always have the option to play someone else.

 

[TresChikon]

Tiers are so, so dumb. Completely irrelevant compared to individual player skill and individual character matchups.

Well tiers assume that both player are even in skill, but that's pretty absurd to have two players EXACTLY the same.

 

[JBM falcon08]

I agree with Niko.

Tiers are not very important when it comes to top tiers they all go back and forth. Some people still don't understand that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

He may be 2 in NTSC, but in PAL he is 4.

Imo he should be 3rd og 4th in NTSC as well. Sheik and Fox is def better. He is prolly equal with Falco or something.

Sheik isn't better than marth in ntsc. Everyone talks about how gay puff is and how she has "no risk". Marth is everything gay about puff but with disjointed hitboxes and a LOT better combos.

IMO marth has the best combos out of the top tier characters. Even against falco you can get out of combos if you DI away the first shine. They will get a few hits, but its not anywhere near 0-death unless some mindgames come into play (like the shiz dair->fsmash traps)

Marth has the speed to make it to any tech option and the range to be safe at the same time. That means like falcon, any hit that knocks the opponent down is a combo starter. If you get a grab at 0% you can fthrow up to 3 times to position yourself under a platform, uthrow and utilt at least 3 times (depending on character) and then follow it in the air. Unless some crazy mindgames happen, you won't make it back to ground level until your next stock or after a lot of hits.

 

[Brookman]

Better combos. . .than puff? I haven't seen marth kill someone at ~0 in a two hit combo before in my life.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i rarely see puff get an advantage from a single hit and be able to follow it until the opponent is dead.

and throw off the stage->fsmash them out of their double jump. dead at any %. 2 hits.

 

[NES n00b]

Puff has some disjointed hitboxes. *sigh*

 

[Niko45]

IMO marth has the best combos out of the top tier characters. Even against falco you can get out of combos if you DI away the first shine. They will get a few hits, but its not anywhere near 0-death unless some mindgames come into play (like the shiz dair->fsmash traps)

Marth has the speed to make it to any tech option and the range to be safe at the same time. That means like falcon, any hit that knocks the opponent down is a combo starter. If you get a grab at 0% you can fthrow up to 3 times to position yourself under a platform, uthrow and utilt at least 3 times (depending on character) and then follow it in the air. Unless some crazy mindgames happen, you won't make it back to ground level until your next stock or after a lot of hits.

You can not regrab falcon, he can buffer roll. And if ur talking about following up on platforms he can cc tech your uairs and utilts.

Even if being the best comboer defined tier ranking, I'd be shocked if the majority felt this way. Marth doesn't combo that well against good DI...and you forget that sheik has the best combo of all - grab to death against 90% of the cast at high percents.

 

[Brookman]

i rarely see puff get an advantage from a single hit and be able to follow it until the opponent is dead.

and throw off the stage->fsmash them out of their double jump. dead at any %. 2 hits.

dude. I think I just lost my respect for you.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lol w/e i'm biased. plus i don't know any puffs/watch any puffs, so my "rarely see ... blah blah" is kinda a moot point.

yes, every character can buffer a roll. its not hard to bait... go ahead and tech my utilt on a platform, i'll get another free hit out of it because the sword covers 100% of the options you have while you're on a platform.

What i mean is, a grab will get you above marth. if marth doesn't mess up his zones, you shouldn't be able to get back down to the ground without winning a conflict (very hard) or going to the edge.

 

[Niko45]

Wow you make it sound so easy.

I'd say my biggest gripe with Marth as a character is that he absolutely has to kill methodically, nail edgegaurds etc. If characters get too high in percent, his only kill options are really laggy and situational (can't combo into at all). All the other top tiers have insane, quick aerial kill moves.

 

[Tero.]

I was about to post something about Sheik and her tier list placement, then realized this is the Official "Ask Cactuar Stuff... about Stuff" Thread and not some tier list discussion topic, then I posted this instead.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wow you make it sound so easy.

I'd say my biggest gripe with Marth as a character is that he absolutely has to kill methodically, nail edgegaurds etc. If characters get too high in percent, his only kill options are really laggy and situational (can't combo into at all). All the other top tiers have insane, quick aerial kill moves.

i agree with everything in this post, but i don't think it really takes anything away from his game. He does have nair, which doesn't straight up kill until really high percents (unless they west coast it) but it does lead into edge guards which leads into kills. Bair does too, and all of marth's tilts.

I love how you said he has to kill methodically, because its so true. Its not a negative, in fact i think its a huge plus. If you follow the right method after getting a hit, you will get the kill. thats basically what i was trying to say in my previous posts.

 

[Zephynazo]

I seriosuly can't belive who u would think Marth > Sheik...

And marth has the best combos out of all tiers? lol, stop joking.

I don't wanna say much more cuz like Tero said, this is ask cactuar about stuff topic.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea you're right, fox combos better. and i don't think marth > sheik, i don't know how you ever could.

 

[P. O. F.]

fox doesnt combo. lol. his combos are u throw to stuff and shine to stuff. epic? Not really.

 

[ZoSo]

All Marth does is fair to grab to stuff. Booooring.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think Marth is better than Sheik.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lol @ mango's post

Marth
Shiek
Fox
Falco
Peach/puff
Falcon

 

[P. O. F.]

All Marth does is fair to grab to stuff. Booooring.

K


It is much more difficult to be a good player with Marth than it is with Fox. That is why a majority of the community uses him. I really think that people overrate and underrate tech skill at the exact same time. It's important but you don't need to do the REALLY PRETTY stuff with Falco and Fox to be a good player.

Jman is a perfect example of this. Does he ever do anything that looks cool? Nah, hes text book...but he wins. Azen was the exact same as well.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Get this **** out of here.


I would rather have nothing than a topic be in the wrong area.

POF please take it somewhere else.

Get back on topic.

Marth is a very balanced character.

Ideas? Cactuar do you concur?

 

[Teczer0]

Wow you make it sound so easy.

I'd say my biggest gripe with Marth as a character is that he absolutely has to kill methodically, nail edgegaurds etc. If characters get too high in percent, his only kill options are really laggy and situational (can't combo into at all). All the other top tiers have insane, quick aerial kill moves.

Whenever I get to a point like this I start abusing sword dance more. Its A LOT more effective when your opponent is scared outta their mind they are gonna get hit

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Whenever I get to a point like this I start abusing sword dance more. Its A LOT more effective when your opponent is scared outta their mind he is gonna get hit

?

=P

Dancing Blade is nice at higher percentages. Dolphin Slash out of shield, too.

Generally, I tend to just push them towards the edge with throws and dtilts. Edge guarding works no matter what the percentage =)

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i asked to be schooled on marth vs puff two pages ago.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Space and see if you can throw to fsmash tipper. Throws really bank a lot on knowing which way they're going to DI.

 

[ZoSo]

i am posting in a thread

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Hey >=( I made a constructive post!

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Lol. I don't even play Marth anymore...

10 characters

 

[Cactuar]

That doesn't change how much I know about the character.

 

[Dark Sonic]

i asked to be schooled on marth vs puff two pages ago.

Well, for BAD Jigglypuffs you can always go super aggro and grab a lot and do f-throw/d-throw to pivot f-smash at like 0-80%.

For GOOD Jigglypuffs, the matchup gets much harder (throws to smashes generally don't work because DIing down solves both throws). For damage you really have to stay on her (spaced so that she can't retaliate of course) because if she establishes a good distance from you then it gets a lot harder to just hit her. Killing on the other hand is going to be pretty much the opposite as you're either gonna be going for an uptilt or an f-smash as a counter to her approach. Note, Marth has ZERO legitimate kill combos on Jigglypuff. However, that doesn't mean that Jigglypuff players won't ever fall for side B to uptilt, or nair to running f-smash . That or you can wait until she's at like 160% and just uair or even fair her off the top.

Nair is underused in this matchup. It's a lot safer than fair simply because it's duration makes it harder to counter. Falling with a nair is better than falling with a fair 9 times out of 10. It still has to be spaced of course, but seriously use more nair (hell it even starts combos better than fair against Jiggs).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I personally like the throw to wavedash utilt.

 

[Turazrok]

What kind of cactus are you?

 

[Cosmo!]

tipper bair as a kill move is highly underrated VS high level puff.

 

[4% APR]

tipper bair as a kill move is highly underrated VS high level puff.

<_< i very distinctly remember a reverse tipper bair killing me on ys

 

[KAOSTAR]

I feel like bair is often underused in marth play.

 

[Ndot]

I use tipper bair to save my team mates hitting them into the stage, as in my back is facing towards my team mate and not the other way around. If I get the right angle anyway, it was pretty funny that I got that. Don't do it in tourney, you'll kill your team mate. :D

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Marth is just rarely in a situation where bair is useful.

 

[BC AL]

i had trouble against a falcon recently
and i was reading the marth match up thread that P O F made (which was well done, good job)
should i be camping the falcon or should marth be the one to approach, because all my approaches got *****
and wut combos can i do at early percents OTHER than tech chases? my tech chases arent really the best in the world so im kinda looking for an alternative

thanks in advance