Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Niko45]

Falcon can **** fox too. Marth vs Falcon is basically even if you ban FD. All the arguments for switching to fox are basically general arguments about why fox is really good. Marth has no terrible matchups.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Okay, Falcon CAN beat Fox, but that doesn't make it a good match up for him.

 

[P. O. F.]

I think Fox is the easiest character in the game to play once you learn how to control him. He doesn't technically "combo", hes the fastest character in the game and camps the best because he can be at the other side of the screen and practically punish you for a mistake, all of his smashes are useful, his shine is the quickest move in the game and can technically kill below 10%, and yeah

i dont need to tell you why he's good. I think tech skill is overrated and underrated w him at the same time...if that makes sense. Basically, i dont think you need to be super flashy w him to win but you do have to a basic fundamental sense w him. Like, you have to know what works against certain characters in terms of u throw follow ups....that's about it. lol.

Falcon can **** fox too. Marth vs Falcon is basically even if you ban FD. All the arguments for switching to fox are basically general arguments about why fox is really good. Marth has no terrible matchups.

Ganons even
Sheiks 60-40
Fox and Falco are at a small advantage on stages other than Fd if you ask me.....

I also think FD is pretty even for Falcon. If you can get the first stock its a lot easier. But if you don't...its hard. I camp the ledge if i get the first stock on Falcon and really try and just keep him by the ledge the entire game.

I hate when people who dont play Marth say "Marth has a CG on spacies! It's not that bad for Marth"

Yeah, because Marth can CG effectively on any stage other than FD....right? While Falco and Fox can still do all their BS on ANY STAGe. 90% of the time if someone plays a spacey in tourney they are going to ban FD anyway so that defense goes right out the window. lol.

 

[Pi]

i thought there was some chaingrab guide here...perhaps that was another board


any way

to what % can you CG fox/falco with horizontal/vertical/no DI?
i know some % around 25 they can DI up? or not at all and get a shine off before you can regrab
but what about if they di to the left/right?
i was CGing my friend (who may have not been trying to jump out) till like 30/40% as falco with horizontal DI

 

[Niko45]

I'd agree with pretty much all of that. Spacies should **** Marth normally. You absolutely have to maximize your grabs vs them.

Except FD being even vs CF is kind of insane. I understand it's not impossible or anything but even is just not true.

 

[NES n00b]

Falcon can **** fox too.

Beat, yes...maybe. ****? no

 

[Rappster]

say you're edgeguarding a space animal who is above the stage. if he's in a position where he can either illusion and hit you, or he can illusion to the ledge, what do you do?

 

[1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey]

jab or dtilt, depending what his momentum is like and how far from the edge he is etc.
Assuming you're staying on the stage like a gangta

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Uthrow chaingrab goes normally until twenty percent, after which you have to pivot grab if they don't DI to avoid the shine. Then at thirty, you have to utilt sometimes to regrab them. I think it goes up to sixty... I just fsmash tipper them off the uthrow, or if they don't DI it, utilt or uair to set them up for the fsmash.

As far as edge guarding goes, just be ready to jab him if he forward B's at you, and if he goes for the ledge, dtilt. Simple. Once he drops, go down with a fair or a Dancing Blade or a reverse Dolphin Slash for the gimp.

 

[Meneks]

Beat, yes...maybe. ****? no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek2wrQsY8fs
Thats a **** imo

 

[P. O. F.]

i thought there was some chaingrab guide here...perhaps that was another board


any way

to what % can you CG fox/falco with horizontal/vertical/no DI?
i know some % around 25 they can DI up? or not at all and get a shine off before you can regrab
but what about if they di to the left/right?
i was CGing my friend (who may have not been trying to jump out) till like 30/40% as falco with horizontal DI

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226822

Read that stuff near Fox and Falco section.

 

[Cactuar]

Ew. Get that CG stuff outta mah thread.

 

[P. O. F.]

Oh yeah, I forgot you don't like CG stuff. Sorry Cactuar!

Quick question while you are around?

Your opinion on top 2-4 on tier list

lately i've been thinking

Falco
Marth
Sheik

but I'm not sure. Sometimes I think

Marth
Falco
Sheik

thoughts? discussion? go.

 

[Tero.]

Sheik
Marth
Falco

Sorry, I'm not Cactuar.

 

[Pi]

thanks pof

 

[Cactuar]

I've always considered Marth 4th.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think the current tier list is right. Fox marth sheik falco.

anyways, i'd rather have a grab on fod or yoshis than a grab on FD. chaingrabs are nice but in the end the best you really get is them at 70-80% off a tipper fsmash. They aren't dead and everyone is back to neutral position.

On yoshis 1 grab is 1 stock. fthrow/dthrow to the nearest edge and cover all the options.

edit: and marth vs ganon is in marth's favor. In a lot of ways i'd rather be marth vs ganon than fox.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Marth vs Ganon is all stage based.

Tiers don't matter if your marth.

 

[P. O. F.]

Sheik
Marth
Falco

Sorry, I'm not Cactuar.

LOL, Sheik being first. No way.

thanks pof

You're welcome.

I've always considered Marth 4th.

hmmmm, better than Sheik? Really? I could understand third but I don't know if Sheiks better than Marth.

She gets destroyed by Fox, even w falco, destroys marth...but doesn't she struggle Vs like Ice Climbers? Than again, Marth struggles w Ganon.....but shes even w Jigglypuff....

I think Sheik and Marth are a coin toss but Falco is probably second best IMO. I say that because Marth is even w top tier.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If Marth is fourth, he wouldn't be better than Sheik =P

I think the current tier list is fine the way it is. Falco's got a few weak points that has to be addressed before he can move up, but Zhu's Falco seems to be moving in the right direction.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

the only stage i think ganon goes even with marth is on YS. every other stage is in marth's favor. Even DL64.

 

[P. O. F.]

the only stage i think ganon goes even with marth is on YS. every other stage is in marth's favor. Even DL64.

Hmmm, good point. I agree on the DL64 aspect. He lives longer....Ganon does not. Edge game.

I think the current tier list is fine the way it is.

I think the top four characters and bottom four need to be moved and thats about it. Pichu is definitely not the worst character in the game. Kirby. By a long shot.

That and Jigs needs to be moved to better than Falcon and Peach. I've always thought that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think puff is fine where she is. I mean, she has an easy time not committing and spacing those bairs, but she doesn't use a hit as well at falcon does. She also dies at really really low percents.

 

[Teczer0]

I've always considered Marth 4th.

Why do you consider Sheik better than Marth?

Just curious. I think Marth is a little better but thats just me

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Pichu gets brick walled too easily because of his lack of options, in my opinion. Kirby has more options, so I feel like that puts him above Kirby.

And I think the thing with Jigglypuff is she's specialized enough such that it makes her seem better. She's got a few brick wall tactics that're pretty good, but if you get past them, I don't think she is as good as Peach or, arguably, Falcon.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

imo

fox/falco
puff
marth
sheik

there just hasnt been many top marths lately.

 

[onedayafter7]

imo

fox/falco
puff
marth
sheik

there just hasnt been many top marths lately.

Thats true....Who is the top marth nowadays anyways?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Mew2King, duh =P

Also tier lists are based on potential (in theory), not representation.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

*accidental double post*

 

[Nø Ca$h]

name 2 others.

and tier lists are based off current metagame, arent they?

if it was potential, i think

falco
fox
peach
sheik
marth

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The current tier lists are based on votes of who's ranked where, which I would guess to be potential.

Why do I have to name two others? That's a ridiculous way to rank characters.

And whatever, you're entitled to your own opinions about the tier list, but I think it's fine the way it is =P

 

[Nø Ca$h]

im just sayin the only top level marths are m2k and cactwar.

and theyre arent that good no more(cept for cactus when he goes ssj4, which never happens.[and m2k is still top level, just not toptop level]).

but yeah, this isnt a tier thread lol. someone should ask a question to change the subject =p

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, but if we're going to argue that, then there are probably more high level Falcos, Jigglypuffs and Falcons than Foxes.

EDIT:

To be honest, I don't understand the big deal about tier lists. You play who you're comfortable with, who cares where they are on the tier? It's not like anyone's forced to be any one character.

 

[P. O. F.]

Marth and Sheik comparison

Vs Falcon-Sheik wins...Marths even
VS jigs......marth wins...sheiks even
VS Fox....Marths even....sheik loses
VS Falco....both even
VS Peach....Marth wins

Yeah, I think Marths third.

To be honest, I don't understand the big deal about tier lists.

Because I hate when Fox players (the best character in the game) complain about Marth's CG. LOL. 90% of the time a Marth shouldnt be CG'ing in tournament because smart spacey players will ban/strike FD Vs marth anyway. Good argument Fox mains. It gives me a defense when I hear people ***** about Marth too. "Hes so gay near the ledge omg!"

Seriously, I think its so scrubby when I hear Fox players complain about characters. LOL, you use the best character in the game. Stop talking.

If I ever hear a V 13, Sagat, or Chun player say stuff I literally tell them to stop talking.

 

[Ndot]

im just sayin the only top level marths are m2k and cactwar.

and theyre arent that good no more(cept for cactus when he goes ssj4, which never happens.[and m2k is still top level, just not toptop level]).

but yeah, this isnt a tier thread lol. someone should ask a question to change the subject =p

wow what are you talking about lol. M2k is top top level. He is an amazing Marth player, and a smash player in general. I think he's the 2nd best after Mango. Its just that some players improved a lot and are giving him a challenge now.
Switching between Brawl and Melee is a big change, and thats what M2K has to deal with. He's probably more rusty now, or maybe not, not sure, but he is now sponsored for Brawl and is probably focusing more on Brawl now.

Cactuar, he has no motivation to try, but he should try. lol But he mains Fox now I think.

Ken is retired. However, Azen is back now, he is amazing, so we'll see what he can do.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ok so if mango picked up link and won a tournament with him, you would think link should move up on the tier list?

Marth is number 2 in this game. He is better than falco, he is better than sheik, and all of them are better than puff. Mango is just really good. Hbox too. Puff is above samus, but hugs beat lucky. OMG SAMUS IS A TOP TIER CHARACTER!!!

 

[Ndot]

Hugs using Samus got 2nd at Evo World 2K7, OMG SAMUS FOR TOP TIER!!! lol

 

[P. O. F.]

wow what are you talking about lol. M2k is top top level. He is an amazing Marth player, and a smash player in general. I think he's the 2nd best after Mango. Its just that some players improved a lot and are giving him a challenge now.
Switching between Brawl and Melee is a big change, and thats what M2K has to deal with. He's probably more rusty now, or maybe not, not sure, but he is now sponsored for Brawl and is probably focusing more on Brawl now.

Cactuar, he has no motivation to try, but he should try. lol But he mains Fox now I think.

Ken is retired. However, Azen is back now, he is amazing, so we'll see what he can do.

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin.

M2K forfeited to Hax. No offence but no "top player" should ever forfeit a match. It sets a horrible example as a competitive player. I'm sure there are plenty of smashers out there who agree with this or at least see where I'm coming from.

Is M2K talented and a top level player? Yes. But I think you are holding him in much higher steeds than you should be now. He is no longer the best in the world. Top five? Yes. #2? Debatable. Things are very different now.

Azen is back? Azen was good in like 2006. Once again im not bashing him...hes just past his prime. He has arguably the best set of all around characters the smash scene has ever seen though. Him and PC and are amazing with every character. Your mentioning of Ken is the same thing....M2K would destroy him now and he did last time he played him. However, Ken still was the best player in the world for the longest time.

and switching between Brawl and Melee is not a big deal at all. For the first like 3-4 months the game was out it was difficult for players but its really not so hard as people put it out to be. I play SF 3, Sf 4, Melee, Brawl, and smash 64 and I can make the transition between each different game pretty nicely....it's not hard.

Cactuar has no motivation to try?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YEtJl8wChQ

Looks good to me. (its the second match ya start watching)


EDIT: What do you know about Samus Cactus? I hate her.....shes gay.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

tiers really dont matter. its obvious who the good chars are, its just that the specific placing depends on the current metagame.

and im ignorant on the whole marth vs puff matchup. can anyone school me?

edit: thanks for explaning the m2k thingy pof. my thoughts exactly lol.

 

[Ndot]

M2K forfeited to Hax. No offence but no "top player" should ever forfeit a match. It sets a horrible example as a competitive player. I'm sure there are plenty of smashers out there who agree with this or at least see where I'm coming from.

Is M2K talented and a top level player? Yes. But I think you are holding him in much higher steeds than you should be now. He is no longer the best in the world. Top five? Yes. #2? Debatable. Things are very different now.

Azen is back? Azen was good in like 2006. Once again im not bashing him...hes just past his prime. He has arguably the best set of all around characters the smash scene has ever seen though. Him and PC and are amazing with every character. Your mentioning of Ken is the same thing....M2K would destroy him now and he did last time he played him. However, Ken still was the best player in the world for the longest time.

and switching between Brawl and Melee is not a big deal at all. For the first like 3-4 months the game was out it was difficult for players but its really not so hard as people put it out to be. I play SF 3, Sf 4, Melee, Brawl, and smash 64 and I can make the transition between each different game pretty nicely....it's not hard.

Cactuar has no motivation to try?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YEtJl8wChQ

Looks good to me. (its the second match ya start watching)

I don't know about the forfeiting to Hax thing. Was that at the tourney for the sponsorships? If so, he wanted to focus on the Brawl tourney to get a sponsorship. I was also talking about skill, not about this forfeiting stuff. And if he wants to forfeit, thats his choice.

I know Cactuar has thrown sets before, read that somewhere in this thread long ago. We all know he is awesomely good lol, he can place a lot higher in tourney if he wanted to. Like when he got second at Event 52, and JV 4 stocking Darkrain there. He said so himself he has no motivation to try, and he sandbags too lol. Right here, if you want to see. =/ I don't know how to multiquote lol or w/e it is.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255008&page=2

When I was talking about Azen being back, I was talking about him returning to Melee from being retired since he was playing Brawl all this time, and we'll see how he will do now. Not that he has been ****** everyone or w/e right now, I didn't say that. The Ken thing too, I'm only mentioning good Marth players that place well or have placed well in tournament. I didn't say Ken would **** everyone now or M2K. I put a sad face beside "Ken is retired" ..........meaning that I'm sad he retired, not w/e you said. Don't put words in my mouth that I did not say bro.

Switching between Melee and Brawl does make a difference. Maybe to you it doesn't, but you don't count for everyone in the smash community.