Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dunno 'bout other people, but I've lost sets where I think its a better idea to switch to a better character match-up but end up still losing (and in many cases losing worse).

If someone picks up sheik just to beat your marth, you should win. You should know marth vs anyone better than they know a random pick-me-up. If they main sheik, then your random pick-me-up shouldn't beat them. The only way those will be false is if the skill difference is drastic (in which case the match-up doesn't matter really) or if one player sucks vs that character (some players claim they "can't fight" one character)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

True. I guess partially, I feel more comfortable as Fox against Sheik, if only just mentally, which I think is a big part of it.

Whatever works for you, I guess =P

 

[KAOSTAR]

Im really only nervous around sheik near the edge haha.

 

[Strong Badam]

picking fox does not help in the marth vs. sheik match-up. it might help in the you vs. the other player match-up, however it is not legitimate advice considering his question.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It's advice for winning.

 

[Ndot]

Dtilt vs Sheik is good, a lot of them will CC to ground your attacks, and to be low enough to the ground to avoid being grabbed and being hit by your aerials. CCing against Sheik is very good too as they'll try to poke you with jabs and tilts etc.

 

[BBQ°]

How do I fight Luigi?

 

[Turazrok]

How do I fight Luigi?

Matchup threads :D

 

[teh_spamerer]

As a marth main don't you have any honor though?

Marth main + honor? Does not compute. No one who has honor plays Marth. He is the villain of SSBM

 

[elvenarrow3000]

That's Sheik.

No one likes Sheik.

 

[Strong Badam]

jigglypuff.
elven: you gave him advice on winning (using fox), but he specifically asked for tips on marth vs. sheik.

 

[KAOSTAR]

It's advice for winning.

picking fox does not help in the marth vs. sheik match-up. it might help in the you vs. the other player match-up, however it is not legitimate advice considering his question.

Are you guys seriously having this conversation lol.

This is clearly the Marth boards. Switching to fox is never gonna make you a better marth in the marth vs sheik matchup.

The only way this is valid is if elvenarrow is claiming that marth v sheik is soooooo 1 sided that its best not to try. The difficulty is just too great and you will always lose.

I just dont see this being the case

 

[Europhoria]

This advice is incomplete. You can also go Falco or possibly do the Sheik ditto in addition to Fox. If none of those characters appeal to you, maybe try like the ICs or Jiggs/Peach; they're supposed to do ok against Sheik, but iunno.

Unless you're really stubborn like me or have no viable secondary to solve your Sheik problem I don't understand why in hell you would ever put yourself into this match up. It's brutal for Marth... you'll win some with players at your skill level but like 1 win in every 3 or 4 games doesn't win sets; to win a set against a high level Sheik/consistently beat Sheiks (over like a 50% win ratio I guess) you have to be considerably better then them or outplay them really hard (aka catch them on a bad day).

 

[Aesir]

Hope they're all ******** and don't realize Dreamland is their stage. =[

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Ehhh... I dunno, fine, I'll admit fault if you guys care so much. Honestly, the Marth vs Sheik strategy is just talked about over and over again and it's the same "watch out for the gay and do x gay thing yourself" over and over.

Basically, I hate crouch canceling and advising people to do it pains me.

And of course there's the obligatory "Go to Mute City where you can edgeguard easily, blah blah blah".

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Marth vs Sheik isn't that bad. Its better than sheik vs peach, falcon, samus and anyone below that on the tier list.

Just don't fall for CC->dtilt (CC them back->grab or shield->grab), always DI away when you get grabbed (unless they start chaingrabbing, don't DI the throw then DI the tilt away/jump if they try to regrab), and when you get a grab, combo her to death (uthrow->many utilts/uairs/fairs) and when she is off the stage make sure she never gets back. Its marths HARDEST matchup, but its really not that bad.

If you learn this match-up you will be a much better marth player.

 

[KirbyKaze]

CC grab all their tilts and jabs into grabs. Combo u-throw --> u-tilt until like 35 (it doesn't work at all from 0 - 10 or so because she can Nair first but nobody does that). After that combo u-throw --> fair and try to follow. If they don't DI the throw you can combo u-throw --> uair and try to follow.

Fairs are pretty good if you're tipping them. If not you get CC *****. A lot of Marth's moves work like this in this matchup.

For edgeguard hold edge and roll --> F-smash or get up --> WD F-smash. If possible try to tipper them when they poof onto the stage otherwise just make sure you get the F-smash to hit or grab them and throw them off (or combo them if you still can). Ledgehop Dair is also very good if they do the poof trick where they appear on the edge with reduced lag. Sometimes it combos to Up+B or other goodies.

DI the throw behind her and mash Side B to hit her. Alternatively DI it slightly up and away from her and mash for Side B. DI her tilts away from her. As far away as you can get. Same for Uair. Don't DI Fair away after 50 when you're being sent offstage or you'll explode. DI Fair away below 50 always or he'll combo silly Sheik things from it.

This matchup is very hard for Marth.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Correction: DI fair away below 50% or so, or else he will link 2 of them together.

 

[KirbyKaze]

My mistake.

That is true.

 

[datstupidmarth]

dose any1 have advice on beating a falcon that is better than u

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

with marth or in general?

If you can, pick up fox and play like cactuar. If that fails, pull out the pikachu and chaingrab him into usmash for 4 stocks and see if he loses all hope. If that fails, fake a seizure or heart attack in the middle of the match and use the distraction to get a lead.

 

[Niko45]

Yea I find faking death, injury, or emergency is a really good winning strategy. There's always the chance that they do it back to you but that's a pretty rare advanced point in the metagame.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yea you save that for grand finals.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I'd say Sheik or Falco are good match ups against Falcon, too.

Counterpicking Fountain of Dreams is always a good plan =)

 

[KirbyKaze]

dose any1 have advice on beating a falcon that is better than u

Get better?

I guess just space really carefully and do D-tilts kind of far away from them and when they try to punish it just **** them because D-tilt has no lag. Refrain from F-smashing when it won't hit.

And then generic Marth stuff.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Tech chasing is great. Throw them towards the edge and chase them down when they tech towards you. When they tech away, fthrow them off, dtilt them in the face and edge guard.

EDIT:

Here's a good match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlHrW2Fqz8w

Notice that when he's doing well, it's when he's got Falcon trapped into a small portion of the stage. That's what you're aiming for.

 

[datstupidmarth]

with marth or in general?

If you can, pick up fox and play like cactuar. If that fails, pull out the pikachu and chaingrab him into usmash for 4 stocks and see if he loses all hope. If that fails, fake a seizure or heart attack in the middle of the match and use the distraction to get a lead.

with marth

 

[datstupidmarth]

Tech chasing is great. Throw them towards the edge and chase them down when they tech towards you. When they tech away, fthrow them off, dtilt them in the face and edge guard.

EDIT:

Here's a good match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlHrW2Fqz8w

Notice that when he's doing well, it's when he's got Falcon trapped into a small portion of the stage. That's what you're aiming for.

thanks for the vid ill use everything iv learnd

 

[Niko45]

Wow tech chase ken combo was....beast.

Throw them towards the ledge.

Dtilt from a distance is a good way to get knee'd or stomped.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can dash/shield/jab/stuff out of D-tilt so quickly though.

 

[Niko45]

I'm just assuming that when you dtilt from a distance you are anticipating an approach, and if that approach happens to be a SH knee or stomp...yikes.

As a bait tho yea it's deceptively lagless.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Actually I'd use it more to mess up their dash dancing if I'm feeling proactive enough to approach. They dash away from it, try to come back in and punish the lag and then you hit them with... something, because you didn't really have that much lag.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm just assuming that when you dtilt from a distance you are anticipating an approach, and if that approach happens to be a SH knee or stomp...yikes.

As a bait tho yea it's deceptively lagless.

No we're not using it to anticipate an approach. That would be dumb, I agree. Retreat Fair and other crap are better for that kind of stuff.

We're baiting with it (because people think they can punish Marth's moves when he whiffs really far away for some reason) and sort of screwing around with it kind of close to them (tipped D-tilt range) to mess with their dash dance because most of Marth's other moves are too slow or have a long arc that prevents them from being ridiculously good against Falcon's super horizontal movement.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Copyright infringement!

 

[KirbyKaze]

I will appease with an offering of pie.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I accept said offer.

 

[KAOSTAR]

what kind of pie lol

 

[DJMirror]

I'm not sure if anyone ask this question already but i'll take my chances

I want to learn how aggressive as marth....

how do i play aggressive as marth?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You approach a lot, keep your opponent on the back foot, trapped in a small area near the ledge.

 

[TresChikon]

Yes, after a while you can smell the fear in their hearts. Then stupid stuff like running behind them and fmashing works.