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- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Upke
Smash Journeyman
Zelda also CGs with her dash grab, but I don't think it's as easy.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I'd say Marth definitely has one of the hardest CG's to do correctly. Every other one's other than like Ganon's on Falco is way easier to do.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Peach is pretty easy to CG with, Ganon is the hardest I'm pretty sure. Fox is also pretty easy to do it with. . .
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
yes you can CG Falco. Marth can only CG Fox and Falco. He can also get a few low percent regrabs vs. random characters @ improper DI
(I've gotten a psuedo->uthrow CG on falcon for like 2-3 grabs haha and u can f-throw->f-throw peach I think at 0 if she doesn't DI away but these things are just useless tidbits)
Bones0
Smash Legend
All of Marth's tipped aerials do 13%...
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Don't question doctor d*ck
aight bones
aight
aight
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
His fthrow and dthrow "chainthrows" don't work if the opponent reacts approprtiately, though you do get a sort of mixup situation.
Upthrow is the only true CG, yup. You get pretty much guaranteed tech chasing on a lot of characters though with fthrow if for some reason you don't feel like throwing your opponent above you and hitting them up a bunch
Upthrow is the only true CG, yup. You get pretty much guaranteed tech chasing on a lot of characters though with fthrow if for some reason you don't feel like throwing your opponent above you and hitting them up a bunch
Upke
Smash Journeyman
If you wanna CG, just go G&W. He can upthrow CG spacies till 40% or so, then at 55% he can dthrow CG them pretty much to death. And it's a simple JC grab. Too easy.
iffy525
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 135
Did not know this. I love CG'ing my noob friends, so I will practice this a bit haha.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
Hey guys, I was wondering if you could offer some suggestions vs peach. Specifically when im trying to recover.
I feel consistent enough for being able to grab the edge when the option is available, my main trouble is getting from the edge to back on the stage.
Turnips are really killing me here, the peach I play will usually camp back a bit and throw them. I can't really get a video so sorry for how vague this is.
I feel consistent enough for being able to grab the edge when the option is available, my main trouble is getting from the edge to back on the stage.
Turnips are really killing me here, the peach I play will usually camp back a bit and throw them. I can't really get a video so sorry for how vague this is.
If she's throwing turnips then act like you will get onstage(high DJ regrabs etc) or come up with a Fair/Nair to cover you. If Peach is waiting for your landing lag, then get up with counter or nothing and shield/jab/catch the turnip.
Upke
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I see a lot of Peaches pushing right after a turnip when they see you get on the stage, so you can counter the turnip and it will hit her, but this is something that won't work every time because they will wise up to it, so use it sparingly.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
Wow quick replies, I've tried most of those suggestions (not jabbing the turnips) with not much success, it's probably that i'm not timing things correctly, taking too long to get back on stage, I'll dig further.
I'm assuming if I were to catch a turnip that I should drop it immediately as his throw animation is awful?
And blah sorry, last one, do I need to get better at sweet spotting marth's up-b or can her dsmash always hit you?
I'm assuming if I were to catch a turnip that I should drop it immediately as his throw animation is awful?
And blah sorry, last one, do I need to get better at sweet spotting marth's up-b or can her dsmash always hit you?
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so talk about useful things that affect people's skill level..so in other words confine our talk to explaining (in order of usefulness)
pinning
dashdancing
abusing human reaction time limitations
and edgeguarding? we could take the conversation in many directions that would help new players advance, but I for one will continue to defend nair for its place in marth's game. I've been avoiding the boards ever since Tai refused to defend nair and then was using it as his primary aerial vs scar and zoning beautifully with it.
it's just too annoying to go on the boards and read nair is not that good, then go watch matches as they use nair 50,000 times. If you think nair sucks and you barely touch it that's fine, but why do so many marth players bash nair and then fill their game with it.
anyway, i don't actually think that bad dashdancing is the main flaw of lower level marths. Most of the time it's either bad edgeguarding or complete inability to pin the opposing space animal. it's embarassing when a marth has fox/falco pinned at the ledge and then loses because the fox/falco chose to roll or full hop out of the corner successfully dozens of times in a row because the marth continues to commit to a risky committal move when he could have either A. zoned his opponent to stay safe in case the fox/falco is one of those aggro beasts that doesn't stop attacking even in the face of a disadvantageous position, or you could B. maintain your position and reactively punish almost anything while at a major advantage.
other common problems are marths full hop/DJ insta swinging in order to catch people coming down (*you know who i'm talking about*) instead of making a prediction about the falling/movement of the opponent in advance, reaching that position, and then swinging with no risk of a reversal and a pretty much guaranteed hit.
of course one of the reasons people like to do fast FH/DJ aerials is to catch the opponent before they can jump out..but you could just jump to a spacing that covers their jump out while falling towards them...eventually they will either jump out or you will get so close that you can swing too fast for them to react. Anyway what i'm talking about is all really proper positioning on falling opponents, but unfortunately lower level marths tend to prefer attempting to force a combo even when they don't have the hundreds of percents memorized to know when the opponent can jump out rather than playing for control which requires a lot less memorization.
dashdancing. not much to say here. Biggest problem is that lower level players start getting wrecked by their opponent who is better than them and then attempt to use their dashdancing defensively..pretending to go in and then dashing out while the opponent overshoots them over and over, when they could just pretend to run away and run in and wreck their opponent more often.
edgeguarding. marths get wrecked a lot for running off early when the spacey is still too high, or for running off on a fox that has not been knocked horizontally far enough when they should have just grabbed the ledge.
anyway, that's all i got for now. I feel like most marth things are intuitive to learn but take a loooooot of practice to master. This game honestly takes too much time so I haven't been able to play seriously much lately. working all week seems to leave me a lot more burned out at the end of the week than school ever did
pinning
dashdancing
abusing human reaction time limitations
and edgeguarding? we could take the conversation in many directions that would help new players advance, but I for one will continue to defend nair for its place in marth's game. I've been avoiding the boards ever since Tai refused to defend nair and then was using it as his primary aerial vs scar and zoning beautifully with it.
it's just too annoying to go on the boards and read nair is not that good, then go watch matches as they use nair 50,000 times. If you think nair sucks and you barely touch it that's fine, but why do so many marth players bash nair and then fill their game with it.
anyway, i don't actually think that bad dashdancing is the main flaw of lower level marths. Most of the time it's either bad edgeguarding or complete inability to pin the opposing space animal. it's embarassing when a marth has fox/falco pinned at the ledge and then loses because the fox/falco chose to roll or full hop out of the corner successfully dozens of times in a row because the marth continues to commit to a risky committal move when he could have either A. zoned his opponent to stay safe in case the fox/falco is one of those aggro beasts that doesn't stop attacking even in the face of a disadvantageous position, or you could B. maintain your position and reactively punish almost anything while at a major advantage.
other common problems are marths full hop/DJ insta swinging in order to catch people coming down (*you know who i'm talking about*) instead of making a prediction about the falling/movement of the opponent in advance, reaching that position, and then swinging with no risk of a reversal and a pretty much guaranteed hit.
of course one of the reasons people like to do fast FH/DJ aerials is to catch the opponent before they can jump out..but you could just jump to a spacing that covers their jump out while falling towards them...eventually they will either jump out or you will get so close that you can swing too fast for them to react. Anyway what i'm talking about is all really proper positioning on falling opponents, but unfortunately lower level marths tend to prefer attempting to force a combo even when they don't have the hundreds of percents memorized to know when the opponent can jump out rather than playing for control which requires a lot less memorization.
dashdancing. not much to say here. Biggest problem is that lower level players start getting wrecked by their opponent who is better than them and then attempt to use their dashdancing defensively..pretending to go in and then dashing out while the opponent overshoots them over and over, when they could just pretend to run away and run in and wreck their opponent more often.
edgeguarding. marths get wrecked a lot for running off early when the spacey is still too high, or for running off on a fox that has not been knocked horizontally far enough when they should have just grabbed the ledge.
anyway, that's all i got for now. I feel like most marth things are intuitive to learn but take a loooooot of practice to master. This game honestly takes too much time so I haven't been able to play seriously much lately. working all week seems to leave me a lot more burned out at the end of the week than school ever did
Yeah just jump Z drop it. And sweetspotting avoids the Dsmash I think....
KP:
Yeah agreed most Marths would benefit more from punishment work than DD work at most levels of the game. That said, working on both together will pay far more dividends in the long run.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
on the subject of dashdancing..ever since I learned from cactuar that wd forward into instant dash away only results in a slight dash back due to momentum carrying over, it has been far far easier to pick up kills. Theoretically it should also be useful for picking up random uptilts on floaties and falcon moving through the air as well, but since I don't play much I know longer have the consistency i want with quick turn around uptilts.
Fighting jiggs was so much easier when i could reverse uptilt out of missed ftilts on command
Fighting jiggs was so much easier when i could reverse uptilt out of missed ftilts on command
f that. hit em once and run away. forever.
LMAO don't say f
and yesssss movement so good ima hit you up hard like tomorrow or day after when this last final is done mhmmmm
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Eh. Relative to other characters, yes. But I wouldn't say "pretty easy." But I'm just splitting hairs, I guess.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
So easy Armada (who I've always especially admired for his incredible consistency) misses it at times :D
(but yeah, far easier than just about anybody else... which makes it really good, because most CGs really are somewhat impractical imho. Marth works fine, but not because even m2k would get it right every time, but mostly because even if Marth drops it he still stays in a really favorable position)
(but yeah, far easier than just about anybody else... which makes it really good, because most CGs really are somewhat impractical imho. Marth works fine, but not because even m2k would get it right every time, but mostly because even if Marth drops it he still stays in a really favorable position)
Bones0
Smash Legend
You can WD towards them and basically do a stutter step by dashing against your momentum. If you do it right it shouldn't delay your dash back towards them. Your first dash just won't go anywhere. I like it mostly because you can do a full WD distance and precisely halt your momentum, and the opponent will also usually expect you go further away than you usually do because they see Marth lean over.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I was saying relative to other chaingrabs. I'm pretty sure I read Magus post that Ganon's is the fastest. . . I never really mess with Fox, so yeah. Peach/Marth definitely seem like they're worth going for in a pinch.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
If you caught the ball, make sure you don't lose possession.
Sozen the Phoenix
Smash Cadet
Someone I played recently told me that I need to cancel my down tilts with Marth. I searched alot for answers on this. Any advice anyone could give me would be welcome.
Kadano
Magical Express
It’s called “Interruptible As Soon As”-frames. Marth’s dtilt animation is 49 frames long, but from frame 20 on you can cancel it with any attack, jump, dash or walk. Not with your shield, though.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Couldn't Marth avoid Sheik's grab range on even a poorly spaced Dtilt by simply turning about?
That is correct. Marth got that gangster lean
Kadano
Magical Express
Yes, except if it’s spaced very poorly so that Sheik’s sheild overlaps your hand.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Whoa. My mind was just blown.