Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[BTmoney]

Haha I love these Marth boards so much.

Here's a Q:
In what MUs are d-tilt most important?

I feel awkward doing it vs Falcon and Spacies

 

[Tarv]

You probably don't want someone like me answering me but I feel like dtilt can be a great zoning tool in almost every MU but obviously it's more useful for some than others. Personally, I love using dtilt in the Falcon MU at early-mid percents because it makes it a bit difficult for them to approach. Other matches where it's very important (in my opinion): Peach, Shiek, the Ditto, and Ice Climbers. Dtilt is great and makes your opponent really think twice about charging you.

 

[FourStar]

Is it effective against Falco and Fox?

 

[Purpletuce]

I think of D-tilt as a low commitment opening tool, although it has the limitation of being very thin. So I really don't use it against characters who love the air(puff), and I like it more against characters who have strong punishment (like Peach, because you want to avoid letting her in, so avoid to committing to something punishable). I also really love this tool against Marth. . .

 

[Metros]

Would anybody be able to give me some advice on the ledgehop>shieldbreaker>regrab technique?

I've read through a few threads, however there doesn't seem to be an answer for what I'm looking for. I can excute the move fine, but Marth drops though the stage everytime instead of the instant regrab and I'm always forced to an up-b. What am I doing wrong in regards to timing, button sequence etc. I have no idea.

3.48 is what I'm referring to here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2Fn7JzrJDFs#t=227s
and 2.03 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NG-4OgSCEtc#t=122s
Any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

[Xyzz]

We all "can execute the move fine", the tricky part is doing it with the correct timing (iirc the whole thing has to be frame perfect). That means you need to let go of the ledge, rejump the frame after that and press b at the same frame.

Also: You most certainly have better things to practice, fair is a easy substitute for the neutral and almost as good.

 

[Kadano]

What am I doing wrong in regards to timing, button sequence etc..

You’re too slow.
Drop with ↓ or →, then slide from Y to B. It’s not really useful, though.

iirc the whole thing has to be frame perfect.

That’s not true, you have at least 2 tolerance frames for second jump and B together even if you fastfall. If you don’t fastfall, you can delay your second jump 10 frames and still grab the ledge if you press B on the very next frame.
If you press B 1 frame later than possible, you have 8 tolerance frames for the second jump (1 if you fastfall).
If you press B 2 frames later than possible, you have 5 tolerance frames for the second jump (0 if you fastfall).
If you press B 3 frames later than possible, you have 0 tolerance frames for the second jump (fastfall takes place on the second frame after dropping so no difference here).

That means you need to let go of the ledge, rejump the frame after that and press b at the same frame.

This is actually not possible. B input overwrites X/Y when both are pressed at the same frame.

 

[Metros]

We all "can execute the move fine", the tricky part is doing it with the correct timing (iirc the whole thing has to be frame perfect). That means you need to let go of the ledge, rejump the frame after that and press b at the same frame.

Also: You most certainly have better things to practice, fair is a easy substitute for the neutral and almost as good.

Yes, I am aware. I've been told a few times it has to be frame perfect. It's very difficult. But I can already do a lot of other things fluently by this stage and am moving onto different things to practice out of boredom and to use in friendlies. The fair substitute is something I've already practiced. I train outside of tournaments constantly.

You’re too slow.
Drop with ↓ or →, then slide from Y to B. It’s not really useful, though.


That’s not true, you have at least 3 tolerance frames even if you fastfall. If you don’t fastfall, you can delay your second jump 10 frames and still grab the ledge if you press B on the very next frame.


This is actually not possible. B input overwrites jump when both are pressed at the same frame.

It's not that I'm slow. I can move pretty fast. It's just getting the timing down, and was wondering if anybody else has been able to successfully besides M2K? I know the move isn't useful, but it's fun to try and get down for practice. Are there any matches or tutorials anywhere showing it maybe?

 

[MT_]

I just imagine myself as Falco shooting the highest LHDL I possibly can and it works about 50% of the time.

 

[BTmoney]

\

It's not that I'm slow. I can move pretty fast. It's just getting the timing down, and was wondering if anybody else has been able to successfully besides M2K? I know the move isn't useful, but it's fun to try and get down for practice. Are there any matches or tutorials anywhere showing it maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0YngNEsIsw

Don't take offense to being too slow because that's it. You are just literally being too slow if it doesn't work. I can do it like 25% of the time. Isn't the most useful thing. I think "planking" with fair is better.

 

[Purpletuce]

If you were good enough with Marth that the thing you need to work on now is ledgehop shield breaker, I would have heard of you before. You're not good enough with things you should be able to do. Some things that are more useful than that that you should actually practice:

L-cancels. Never miss them, if you're at 99%, then you're good. Practice on multiple targets.
WD, be able to do it in any situation. This includes out of shield.
Chain grabs, make it so you can CG any spacie from ~20% to ~80%, with at least 90% accuracy. When you're alone, just learn the timings.
Shield drops, be consistent enough that if another Marth is U-tilting from below you, can consistently punish it.
Learn to work the ledge in a useful way (DJ regrab, UpB regrab, ledgehop aerials.)
Learn to PS lasers at varying hieghts, with various options into and out of the PS.

Those are things that you should be able to practice on your own that are more useful than ledgehop shield breaker. If you're practicing with a teammate, there are proably 100 things more useful than ledgehop shield breaker that you could practice.

 

[BTmoney]

You’re too slow.
Drop with ↓ or →, then slide from Y to B. It’s not really useful, though.


That’s not true, you have at least 2 tolerance frames for second jump and B together even if you fastfall. If you don’t fastfall, you can delay your second jump 10 frames and still grab the ledge if you press B on the very next frame.
If you press B 1 frame later than possible, you have 8 tolerance frames for the second jump (1 if you fastfall).
If you press B 2 frames later than possible, you have 5 tolerance frames for the second jump (0 if you fastfall).
If you press B 3 frames later than possible, you have 0 tolerance frames for the second jump (fastfall takes place on the second frame after dropping so no difference here).


This is actually not possible. B input overwrites X/Y when both are pressed at the same frame.

Does not fast falling affect Marth's ledge dash invincibility?

Chain grabs, make it so you can CG any spacie from 0% to ~50% to death, with at least 90% accuracy. When you're alone, just learn the timings.

Had to fix that lol. I'm working on it myself and lvl 3 CPUs are without the doubt the best way to practice this against for anyone who didn't know. They just won't try to mash a shine out or DJ out when they can but if you do it right it doesn't matter.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Haha I love these Marth boards so much.

Here's a Q:
In what MUs are d-tilt most important?

I feel awkward doing it vs Falcon and Spacies

EVERYONE

Falcon and spacies are less than usual usage but you can still see decent Dtilt usage vs them. My entire strategy vs Falcon is to Dtilt his DD and then otherwise use sword to beat his approach lol.

Fox Dtilt is good until he starts jumping or coming in harder vs it and then you can get grabs or easier juggle/corner setups.

Falco I dunno I don't play that matchup much but I think I like catching him when he runs away with it. Probably the matchup I Dtilt least in.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

-Roommate is randomly playing Hava Nagila on his little phone piano.
-I go online to look up the actual one.
-Find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHSNZK4Je-Y
-Notice the avatar is the exact same as

-Same avatar as Bones.
-Conclusion: Bones is jewish.

 

[BTmoney]

Bones is a fraud, or should we call him XxMsrSzprzxX

my avatar is a beautiful, original, artifact from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e4veHAvYgw

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So, I was wondering about dealing with lasers.
There seems be a few options:
-Go for powershields or shield when you see them go for the laser.
-Use platforms.
-Tank them, then just go.
-Make a read on a counter.

I was wondering what might be the preferred method of approach. Ideally, I think you should always go for the powershields, but you won't always get them, then simply get stuck in shield. From there, options I believe should be roll or something with jump. Honestly, I see anything like SH Fair, wavedash back, or SH Uair is pretty good depending upon how Falco is playing with shields.
Platforms only seem useful at large reaches such as Falco coming off the ledge and marth near the other ledge.
Oddly enough, taking a hit from a laser takes a smaller time interval until your next action compared to shield -> wavedash. Although, with getting hit it completely ruins your momentum.

In hindsight, any approach with lasers I think should be more reaction based as possible. To take advantage of the powershield, you pretty much have to assume your are going to get it otherwise, you lose an opportunity.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Powershields should be the main method of handling lasers. Practice makes perfect. Crouch and dash away PS too good.

Platforms, taking/shielding lasers and then moving/attacking off of them, and then yeah I guess countering are mixups that come with powershielding. But I mean, being able to dash back PS gives Marth his DD back vs Falco which is too good lol.

 

[Vivec]

Could you practice powershielding without an opponent? Not many people are willing to just sit for awhile and fire lasers.

 

[iffy525]

lvl 9's shoot pretty often, just run away from them

 

[FourStar]

is wavedashing crucial for marth or what?

 

[Xyzz]

Could you practice powershielding without an opponent? Not many people are willing to just sit for awhile and fire lasers.

You can plug in a second controller and shoot using your toes.

is wavedashing crucial for marth or what?

It's necessary with every character, but Marth really benefits from WD spacing adjustments.

 

[FourStar]

thanks! who are really good marth's to look at other than PP, Ken, and M2K?

 

[Xyzz]

PewPewU, IB, and Ice would probably be worth watching (Ice plays other characters as well).

 

[Metros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0YngNEsIsw

Don't take offense to being too slow because that's it. You are just literally being too slow if it doesn't work. I can do it like 25% of the time. Isn't the most useful thing. I think "planking" with fair is better.

None taken I know I'm too slow, because he's going through the stage and falling but not re-grabbing. I don''t think I can move any faster if I tried lol. It's just getting the timing down and was seeking advice on that.

 

[BTmoney]

thanks! who are really good marth's to look at other than PP, Ken, and M2K?

ken's marth is...strange idk how I feel about out right now lol. Lots of jank

 

[Browny]

If you were good enough with Marth that the thing you need to work on now is ledgehop shield breaker, I would have heard of you before. You're not good enough with things you should be able to do. Some things that are more useful than that that you should actually practice:

L-cancels. Never miss them, if you're at 99%, then you're good. Practice on multiple targets.
WD, be able to do it in any situation. This includes out of shield.
Chain grabs, make it so you can CG any spacie from ~20% to ~80%, with at least 90% accuracy. When you're alone, just learn the timings.
Shield drops, be consistent enough that if another Marth is U-tilting from below you, can consistently punish it.
Learn to work the ledge in a useful way (DJ regrab, UpB regrab, ledgehop aerials.)
Learn to PS lasers at varying hieghts, with various options into and out of the PS.

Those are things that you should be able to practice on your own that are more useful than ledgehop shield breaker. If you're practicing with a teammate, there are proably 100 things more useful than ledgehop shield breaker that you could practice.

Step off man, what sort of attitude is that? She comes here asking a simple question, NO WHERE did she talk about this being the only technique she needs to practice, so you just make that up to give you some sort of platform to insult her from?

I've never heard of you, so by your logic I guess thats all the proof I need for me to assume you cant Lcancel, WD OOS, CG or PS lasers etc.

 

[Ziodyne]

I didn't think he was being that insulting. Critical for sure, but I'm pretty sure he meant well, because you'd be surprised how much stuff people need work on even if they don't think they need it (myself included). Also, having a teammate who will actually sit down and help you practice stuff is a friggin' godsend.

Btw, learning CC-shieldgrabbing seems like it'd be stupid good for Marth. Just sayin', and it's not difficult.

 

[Metros]

If you were good enough with Marth that the thing you need to work on now is ledgehop shield breaker, I would have heard of you before. You're not good enough with things you should be able to do. Some things that are more useful than that that you should actually practice:

L-cancels. Never miss them, if you're at 99%, then you're good. Practice on multiple targets.
WD, be able to do it in any situation. This includes out of shield.
Chain grabs, make it so you can CG any spacie from ~20% to ~80%, with at least 90% accuracy. When you're alone, just learn the timings.
Shield drops, be consistent enough that if another Marth is U-tilting from below you, can consistently punish it.
Learn to work the ledge in a useful way (DJ regrab, UpB regrab, ledgehop aerials.)
Learn to PS lasers at varying hieghts, with various options into and out of the PS.

Those are things that you should be able to practice on your own that are more useful than ledgehop shield breaker. If you're practicing with a teammate, there are proably 100 things more useful than ledgehop shield breaker that you could practice.

Eh...? I think you entirely missed the point of what I was asking. I was actually asking for advice on the timing for the SBRG because I miss the regrab, useless move or not.

And, how do you know I'm not good enough? XD I have played the game for six years. Just because you haven't heard of me, doesn't mean you should automatically assume that I don't know or don't practice anything else lol. I never said anywhere or implied the SBRG is the only thing left I need to learn, I just asked about it. :D

 

[MookieRah]

Eh...? I think you entirely missed the point of what I was asking.

I think you missed the point he was saying though. The point is that if you are willing to train something like shieldbreaker regrab, you should probably be working on something else. His statement wasn't trying to say you are bad at the game, because honestly EVERYONE (even the pros, probably even PP) needs to work on the things he listed and make sure they are consistent with all of them. That would generate a lot higher return for the time spent than something as situational as a shieldbreaker regrab.

 

[clowsui]

Purpletuce gets the point. Granted, he could have just informed her of how to perform the technique but encouraged her to work on other stuff, but whatever.

I'm glad we're working towards an ethic of improvement.

 

[Metros]

I think you missed the point he was saying though. The point is that if you are willing to train something like shieldbreaker regrab, you should probably be working on something else. His statement wasn't trying to say you are bad at the game, because honestly EVERYONE (even the pros, probably even PP) needs to work on the things he listed and make sure they are consistent with all of them. That would generate a lot higher return for the time spent than something as situational as a shieldbreaker regrab.

I got the point quite clearly, thank you. It still didn't answer my question let alone have anything to do with it. All I asked for was advice on a particular move. How is telling me I have better things to do with Marth and listing everything I already know an answer? I thought this of all places would be the best place to ask. And as I already said, I'm aware it's not the best move. There were many better ways he could have gone about answering my question instead of flat out pointing out the obvious of what I and I'm sure everybody else, knows. Is some advice for the SBRG too much to ask?

Never mind though. I actually figured out what I was doing wrong, and can now do it. It was just the timing.

 

[Kadano]

Does not fast falling affect Marth's ledge dash invincibility?

Only if you use your second jump later than on the first possible frame.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Could you practice powershielding without an opponent? Not many people are willing to just sit for awhile and fire lasers.

Look at what Leffen suggested in my post in how to practice on your own(you can find this in the thread's OP.) CPUs shoot often. If you want to vary height, then use corneria, for example.

 

[Medz!]

how is crouching powershield better than a regular powershield?

 

[Upke]

I'm guessing because if the lasers are higher than your crouch, you have many more frames in which you can shield and successfully powershield the laser because it's within your shield's range longer.

 

[Dr Peepee]

how is crouching powershield better than a regular powershield?

Well Marth's shield comes up a little in front of him when he crouches so it's easier. You don't HAVE to do it but it can be helpful also because Marth can duck under higher lasers with his crouch too.

 

[Mahie]

Regarding Powershielding :

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...rs-stuff-thread.118998/page-280#post-15206019

Wrote this a while ago but it's still relevant.

 

[soma ghost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KUo-IHjwHyM and all that

 

[Voltz]

So, I play as Marth now.

 

[Tee ay eye]

@mahie:

is it IMPOSSIBLE for samus to get a missile below crouch height, or is it just really hard?

also, whenever samus missiles you, does this mean you can just crouch under it and not get hit? or does it go over your head and hit your body?