Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[FourStar]

You know who needs a combo video?

PewPewU.

just watch his matches from NCR. very impressive

 

[iffy525]

just watch his matches from NCR. very impressive

I don't really know how to respond to this. I've already seen NCR. Everyone knows PPU is impressive. A combo video would be fun to watch, and he's a good enough player to have one.

 

[Bones0]

I'm tired of all the cool, but way too brief 3-minute combo videos. Let him get a bunch more footage and we can have a video comparable to RKWT. High five if you know what that acronym stands for.

 

[FourStar]

I don't really know how to respond to this. I've already seen NCR. Everyone knows PPU is impressive. A combo video would be fun to watch, and he's a good enough player to have one.

go right ahead. i'm making one for Axe so can't do PPU

 

[FourStar]

I'm tired of all the cool, but way too brief 3-minute combo videos. Let him get a bunch more footage and we can have a video comparable to RKWT. High five if you know what that acronym stands for.

please elaborate and tell us what RKWT means :D

 

[BTmoney]

high five's self

 

[Diakonos]

Pretty obvious, isn't it? Real Kings Wear Tiaras.

 

[Tee ay eye]

go right ahead. i'm making one for Axe so can't do PPU

lol wanna take ppu and ill take axe?

 

[Bones0]

lol wanna take ppu and ill take axe?

If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were talking about street drugs.

 

[CyberZixx]

Will taking PPU make me as good as him in melee? If so, sign me up.

 

[Bones0]

Will taking PPU make me as good as him in melee? If so, sign me up.

You'll have to consult with a physician, obviously. I recommend contacting Dr. PP for all of your Melee enhancement product questions.

 

[Sweet™]

What's the best thing to do to a Fox that constantly illusions past me onto the stage?

 

[FourStar]

lol wanna take ppu and ill take axe?

ummmmm kinda late now that i have started axe's combo video. LOL and i haven't really watched too much PPU

 

[PGH Carroll]

What's the best thing to do to a Fox that constantly illusions past me onto the stage?

Put a hitbox in front of you.

 

[Diakonos]

This is not as simple as it seems it should be. Try sh fairs. At low damages, see if you can hit the second fair, or else just ff the first and stick a poke out right away. Retreat a bit as you fair, if you have to.

Fsmash is usually too slow. Nair is unpredictable. Poke is usually too low. Unless you wanna just CC it and turn around and grab or something. But yeah, illusion 2gud

 

[FrootLoop]

reation shield -> wd oos ->grab?

 

[Bones0]

You almost always want to dtilt if they are low enough for it to hit.

 

[BTmoney]

nvm. ggs me

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You almost always want to dtilt if they are low enough for it to hit.

Grab....

 

[Bones0]

Grab....

Grab doesn't cover shortens.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Jab is great for covering side Bs and shortens from Fox unless he is going to the edge(jab doesn't catch shortens there.)

 

[Sweet™]

Yeah. The side b usually goes at my head area, I'm fine hitting them when they go for ledge, I just need to work on the timing for a higher posistioned side b.

 

[knightpraetor]

This is not as simple as it seems it should be. Try sh fairs. At low damages, see if you can hit the second fair, or else just ff the first and stick a poke out right away. Retreat a bit as you fair, if you have to.

Fsmash is usually too slow. Nair is unpredictable. Poke is usually too low. Unless you wanna just CC it and turn around and grab or something. But yeah, illusion 2gud

I've never really tried nair. I was always curious whether anyone could 2nd hit the phantasm on reaction though. It seemed impossible back when I tried..but then I remember days when I could fsmash on reaction from pretty close and barely have it hit them before they got by. but yeah..i wouldn't risk fsmash in tourney unless they are far away. fair seems to be the agreed upon best option, but I don't trust myself with even that, so I end up just crouching or shielding and going for a regrab. that's a really bad method though if they land too close for you to wavedash out of shield. I think crouch is better but I keep forgetting to use it.
I keep thinking.. grab is only 7 frames..and marth's grab range is huge..how come i don't just grab the phantasm?

actually now that i think about it the only reason that i get away with having such bad coverage of phantasm from midstage is cause i often hard read either the phantasm or the shorten and get a straight kill rather than trying to cover it all on reaction. 50/50 but less work and stronger punishes. probably worse than perfect play but a heck of a lot easier.

also, a lot of the time marth can just get closer to the ledge and cover everything with jab. All depends on how close you are to the ledge when they get the option to phantasm at you. I really wish i could do those fairs on reaction though. I was watching PP kill some foxes a few months ago, and it looked fun

 

[Bones0]

You can always just react to high side-Bs with a WD back and tipper their landing lag (or just crouch under it and tip them to the opposite side if they are at a high enough %). There might also be some worth to just ftilting to cover the ledge side-B as they rise and the high side-B at the same time, and then reacting to the second ledge side-B opportunity with a dtilt. Not sure how feasible it is to time the ftilt so that it covers both options or if you can get the dtilt out in time if they go for the second ledge side-B, but it's worth a shot.

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, i think if they had access to high side b they would just wait and then punish the ftilt lag, but maybe...

 

[Bones0]

hmm, i think if they had access to high side b they would just wait and then punish the ftilt lag, but maybe...

Idk, you're probably right. Maybe just straight up reacting with ftilt is possible and that would work as a medium ground between jabbing and fsmashing like you mentioned earlier.

 

[Diakonos]

Well, the thing is that you don't always know if/when they'll illusion. I assume most of us still playing the game have good enough reaction time to be able to punish with fsmash or ftilt or even dair if it's pretty obvious what they'll be doing. But my understanding is that it's a, "ah, they're illusioning at about my head!" thing. In this scenario, is there any disadvantage to fair? Does anyone know how long it takes to get a hitbox in front of you with shfair?

Jab is of course useful, but it seems to me that when they're aiming high, it takes a bit of time for the move's hitbox to come up there, since it starts low. And it feels like it has more priority around the middle of his body than at his head, iirc.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Looks like it takes Fair 9 frames to come out counting jumpsquat.

I like Fair'ing the high illusions. Playing against a Fox that recovers well will force you to learn to Fair or take some other reactionary measure vs that illusion. If you get surprised by it(any height), then just shield di behind you and then WD OOS Fsmash or grab depending on the %. Obviously not as good as Fair'ing them offstage but it's a pretty good response.

 

[Diakonos]

Looks like it takes Fair 9 frames to come out counting jumpsquat.

I like Fair'ing the high illusions. Playing against a Fox that recovers well will force you to learn to Fair or take some other reactionary measure vs that illusion. If you get surprised by it(any height), then just shield di behind you and then WD OOS Fsmash or grab depending on the %. Obviously not as good as Fair'ing them offstage but it's a pretty good response.

9 frames?? http://i.imgur.com/RVyP9.gif

 

[Bones0]

I don't like using fair, or jumping in general, because it feels like they can just go to the ledge as soon as they see me jump. That's fine if they don't shorten, since you can still fair really deep into the ledge, but if they do then fair won't hit. If I don't jump preemptively, it seems really hard to jump and get fair out in front in time, especially vs. Falco. Fair hits frames 4-7, the same as jab, but he has 4 frames of jumpsquat before that, so it's more like 8-11.

Priority doesn't really matter for hitting side-Bs. The hitbox is far enough behind the hurtbox that if you get hit or see the clank animation, it just means you were too slow.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

There is no priority for the move at all needed to hit fox/falco out of a SideB. The character warps their hurtbox various distances, then the hitbox of the move is 2 frames behind fox/falco.

Jab is still pretty freaking huge during the whole arc and is level with Marth's head the 2nd frame the hitbox is out (out of 4). Jab is perfectly fine for covering all heights aimed directly at marth. Ftilt is a better punisher though (albeit slower start-up).

I disagree with any attempts to be jumping while still on stage. There is really no need for it. There is quite enough ending lag on the move that you can follow-up with FH Fair/Uair on any top platform landings, SH Fair/Uair, Utilt/Fsmash on lower platforms, and simply grab if they are on the ground and get past you. By jumping, you cannot cover the cancel whereas if you were still grounded you'd be able to punish the canceled ones. There is also the issue that they time it so late from when you jumped.

Jab is your friend and all you really need to cover things directed at you. Dtilt for the ledge. All the options in the world if they go high. Just get better reaction and timing skills, and don't commit before they actually do something.

 

[FourStar]

There is no priority for the move at all needed to hit fox/falco out of a SideB. The character warps their hurtbox various distances, then the hitbox of the move is 2 frames behind fox/falco.

Jab is still pretty freaking huge during the whole arc and is level with Marth's head the 2nd frame the hitbox is out (out of 4). Jab is perfectly fine for covering all heights aimed directly at marth. Ftilt is a better punisher though (albeit slower start-up).

I disagree with any attempts to be jumping while still on stage. There is really no need for it. There is quite enough ending lag on the move that you can follow-up with FH Fair/Uair on any top platform landings, SH Fair/Uair, Utilt/Fsmash on lower platforms, and simply grab if they are on the ground and get past you. By jumping, you cannot cover the cancel whereas if you were still grounded you'd be able to punish the canceled ones. There is also the issue that they time it so late from when you jumped.

Jab is your friend and all you really need to cover things directed at you. Dtilt for the ledge. All the options in the world if they go high. Just get better reaction and timing skills, and don't commit before they actually do something.

woah that picture looks soo sick

 

[Dr Peepee]

I jump on reaction, not before Fox side Bs. I would never jump before seeing them start the side B.

 

[Bones0]

I jump on reaction, not before Fox side Bs. I would never jump before seeing them start the side B.

Can you jump on reaction to Falco's side-B?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I can't usually lol. I also don't play that matchup much so maybe I'd have another answer.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I can't usually lol. I also don't play that matchup much so maybe I'd have another answer.

By choice you don't play falco vs marth? Or you literally don't play anyone who uses the pheasant? I thought everyone region full of birds with guns.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well we have some Falcos here but none of them use that recovery vs my Marth <.<

I also split my time between training the two characters right now so I don't get a lot of Marth vs Falco experience. That seems to be changing for me lately and it's a solid Falco too. =) I'll tell him about recovering higher on my Marth and let you guys know how it goes!

 

[MT_]

People should play with using utilt to hit illusions/phantasms aimed directly at Marth when they're at kill percents, especially if they're aiming at your head. You'll more than likely get that sourspot that sends them at a weird angle and they'll die instead of getting another chance at recovering. It also comes out on frame 6 so it's much easier to use on reaction than SH fair or fsmash.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Oh wow never thought about Utilt at higher percents that's pretty good.

If I jump I could also catch shortens though with a double Fair so that's why I'd still use it against Fox.

 

[FrootLoop]

I don't think I've ever seen shorten actually covered without giving up coverage elsewhere, and doing that turns it into a bad 50/50. Same goes for that perfect firefox sweetspot that goes under jab (falco can just shoot both of these lol so good).

I'll believe it when I see it, but I think spacies can just force ledge in a lot of instances vs marth.