Bing
Smash Master
Yeah generally I am doing the up and away at high percentages because im not getting up thrown until like 80+
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
She's supposed to turn around and delay the up tilt to make it "meatier" in order to counter this, SDI up, double jumps (if they mistime), and some other things.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
^Is that street fighter vocab on my trollboardz?
Aesir
Smash Master
If a sheik is losing to a marth they're doing it wrong.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
Or getting outplayed. That happens sometimes you know.
Aesir
Smash Master
aka doing it wrong.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
You can play the match-up correctly and still be a worse player than they are. It's kind of how Darkrain beat Tope until after Tope improved, even though Tope was tech-chasing well and such.
Beat!
Smash Master
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
WTF direction do I throw doc in? And how do I follow that up?
Niko45
Smash Master
towards the sky, wait and up tilt
Beat!
Smash Master
F-throw to dash-attack can work if they end up off stage. Upthrow is generraly preferred though.
I've never played against a Doc of OTG's/Shroomed's caliber though, so maybe it doesn't work that often against them, lol.
I've never played against a Doc of OTG's/Shroomed's caliber though, so maybe it doesn't work that often against them, lol.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
Beat!
Smash Master
^I've seen that one before... how exactly does he do that?
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Lol. Damage ratio probably. Or AR. idk.
EDIT: Didn't realize you answered that question here Niko lol.
EDIT: Didn't realize you answered that question here Niko lol.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
just changed the IASA to really early. required file editing.
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
That's also Mario, not Doc. 
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
What should I do after I spotdodge an attack? I never spotdodge with Marth cause idk what to do thats faster to get out of danger.....I spotdodge alot with spacies cause I can just shine and stuffs.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
DI the best you possibly can for the situation because marth's spotdodge takes 9 years to finish and you will most certainly be hit out of it.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
It seems all I can do is....dolphin slash, grab....or....:D
Winston
Smash Master
DD and grab them because they probably just spotdodged
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
But spacies would just shine me 
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
The Four Stages of Competence
1) Unconscious Incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
2) Conscious Incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
3) Conscious Competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
4) Unconscious Competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence
I think this learning model presents smash pretty well. Either in execution of certain techs or the skill of knowing when to use a particular tech.
Take something as simple as shielding. I have run into a number of people who do not shield because they do not think it is worth using and cannot improve there game because of it. Once they recognize that shielding is worth using, someone starts a process of trial and error. Such as when it is good to shield or when is it not. At first, it can take concentration to put-up shield when you might be used to doing something else. Eventually, with so much practice you will put up shield at the right moments and can start contemplating a another course of action other than focusing on this is the proper moment to put shield up.
Although, this learning process gets torn up when you tell someone to not do something. Say you are helping to teach someone. You notice they keep rolling around a lot and you keep punishing them for it. Instead of telling this person "quit rolling" (as is the advice I hear quiet often) someone should assist in someone's trial and error process of when is rolling good or when is it bad. Everything is worth using at some point, you just need to seek out those instances where they are and practice it.
I bring this up since I think everyone at some point gets locked into this scenario where they will approach match-ups with a single strategy, overusing the same tools every time rather than practicing out other options that might prove useful.
1) Unconscious Incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
2) Conscious Incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
3) Conscious Competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
4) Unconscious Competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence
I think this learning model presents smash pretty well. Either in execution of certain techs or the skill of knowing when to use a particular tech.
Take something as simple as shielding. I have run into a number of people who do not shield because they do not think it is worth using and cannot improve there game because of it. Once they recognize that shielding is worth using, someone starts a process of trial and error. Such as when it is good to shield or when is it not. At first, it can take concentration to put-up shield when you might be used to doing something else. Eventually, with so much practice you will put up shield at the right moments and can start contemplating a another course of action other than focusing on this is the proper moment to put shield up.
Although, this learning process gets torn up when you tell someone to not do something. Say you are helping to teach someone. You notice they keep rolling around a lot and you keep punishing them for it. Instead of telling this person "quit rolling" (as is the advice I hear quiet often) someone should assist in someone's trial and error process of when is rolling good or when is it bad. Everything is worth using at some point, you just need to seek out those instances where they are and practice it.
I bring this up since I think everyone at some point gets locked into this scenario where they will approach match-ups with a single strategy, overusing the same tools every time rather than practicing out other options that might prove useful.
danieljosebatista
Smash Journeyman
I'm having trouble fighting ganon. I feel like I'm always outspaced by his fair and he seems to live to very high percents. Any tips for the matchup?
Dart!
Smash Master
tech chase him. then hit him off stage to where he has to wizard kick recover to come back, then go out and get em.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Uhh.. you won't win the matchup like that, rofl.
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
uair and utilt are really strong against ganon. Be careful around platforms because of that stupid dair he's got. When you get him off stage, do the smart thing and just wait for his up b. You can hit him an fsmash as an edge guard like 98% of the time (dtilt as a mixup?). If he recovers high you can ken combo, skip the fair and just spike, or reverse dolphin.
If you're struggling against fair or bair just bait them. The more you punish something the less likely that person is to use it (theoretically). Dash away, then dash in and grab, etc. Ganon is slow so just go hit him. lol.
DISCLAIMER: I'm still new myself so, while this is the way I play the matchup, it may not be ideal.
If you're struggling against fair or bair just bait them. The more you punish something the less likely that person is to use it (theoretically). Dash away, then dash in and grab, etc. Ganon is slow so just go hit him. lol.
DISCLAIMER: I'm still new myself so, while this is the way I play the matchup, it may not be ideal.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well.. you can Fair Ganon as he winds up his Fair since it takes time for Ganon's fair to come out as Marth's Fair is pretty fast. When I play Marth in this match-up, I do like to counter-attack Ganon with aerials since Marth's aerials are pretty damn good. You can definitely beat him in the aerial game if you guess correctly. But if Ganon decides to stay grounded, (Which is what he's supposed to do most of the time) Marth needs to DD and wait for a move to come out and then start grabbing. I'm pretty sure you can shield a downtilt and then WD in OOS and grab if you do it fast enough. The Marth really needs to watch his approaches in this case. As for Ganon's Ftilt, I don't really recommend you approach with an aerial, I think it's good to crouch so the ftilt misses and then do something like dtilt or your own Ftilt too.
As for Ganon off-stage, you can just basically dair him everytime, just don't be scared, Ganon can't do **** almost lol.
That also makes me wonder if Marth's jab is viable in this matchup to stuff approaches and **** the timing up of Ganon.
It's actually pretty hard to catch a Marth that is more grab happy and is constantly moving with his pretty movement.
As for Ganon off-stage, you can just basically dair him everytime, just don't be scared, Ganon can't do **** almost lol.
That also makes me wonder if Marth's jab is viable in this matchup to stuff approaches and **** the timing up of Ganon.
It's actually pretty hard to catch a Marth that is more grab happy and is constantly moving with his pretty movement.
Ah yes, the ultimate Ganon counter: Pretty movement.
Jun.
Smash Lord
To me, the ultimate ganon counter seems to be "waiting for him to throw out something"
Otherwise known as camping.
Otherwise known as camping.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Rofl, pretty much. Imo, if the marth doesn't stop moving it's his mistake already and will get easily caught especially with Ganon which can challenge Marth's range.
danieljosebatista
Smash Journeyman
Thanks guys. Yeah sometimes I feel like I have trouble spiking ganon off stage because I get hit by his Up B as he recovers. My Marth probably needs more work lol
Divinokage
Smash Legend
That just means you aren't doing the dair properly or you are too slow. Idk..
danieljosebatista
Smash Journeyman
Yeah it's weird, I can intercept falcon's recovery easily but Ganon's gives me some more trouble usually
Beat!
Smash Master
So I just got what I think may have been one of the fastest kills in history.
About 2 seconds into the game.
It was pretty cool.
Just wanted to say that.
About 2 seconds into the game.
It was pretty cool.
Just wanted to say that.
Niko45
Smash Master
was it tipper to tipper cause that's my favorite
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Tipper to tipper is one of the best feelings life offers.
Beat!
Smash Master
It was nair to tipper vs Marth on YS.
It felt so good.
sogood
It felt so good.
sogood
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Nair combos into ftilt really well usually. One of my favorite combos
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
So I've been having trouble against Campy Samus' recently. Normally the Samus will shoot endless projectiles at me from across the stage and intercept my approach (normally approaching with F-Air or N-Air) any advice?
Van.
Smash Ace
^just jab all her projectiles. Even charge shot