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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Spiral Mountain
MasterShake said:
I think the platforms help escape dthrows into aerials.
Click to expand...
You can think that, but you're wrong. It's super, super easy to react to the tech option because of the limited space. Most Sheiks are horrible at this game, though, so I can see how you'd come to that conclusion.

That said, I think PS is still probably one of Marth's better levels against her.
 
MT_

MT_

Smash Ace
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791
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Austin, TX
I think opting to land on a platform when you are still in chaingrab percentages is a decent idea. Rather force the techchase game than take the guaranteed chaingrab, right?
 
Niko45

Niko45

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MT_ said:
I think opting to land on a platform when you are still in chaingrab percentages is a decent idea. Rather force the techchase game than take the guaranteed chaingrab, right?
Click to expand...
Sheik doesn't have a guaranteed chaingrab, though.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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Messages
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MT_ said:
I think opting to land on a platform when you are still in chaingrab percentages is a decent idea. Rather force the techchase game than take the guaranteed chaingrab, right?
Click to expand...
Sheik's CG only works on DI away, and to like 40% (if that). You are taking more damage by moving towards the platform, generally speaking, because you will often have to DI away and eat the chain grab to even get there in a timely manner, and then you can be comboed once you actually get on the platform. If you'd simply DI'd behind her from the start, she does the same guaranteed 30-40% she always gets for a grab.

By landing on the platform you're allowing her to start up air juggles in a much better position than normal (again, I doubt you've encountered this because most Sheiks are ****ing garbage tier trash at combos), use better moves for comboing (dair, in a lot of cases), open up for garbage KO moves in a lot of cases (up smash on FoD), and there's just generally more vulnerability because Marth has a distinct lack of good moves when he's on the platform.

I've done stupid nonsense like d-throw > dair > dair > uair KO off the top platforms over a hundred times on various people (good people, too) because they thought the platforms were safe and that I'd miss if they just kept forcing me to follow them on them. But a decent Sheik (if you ever face one of the 7 or 8 of us that actually exist) will **** you up for that nonsense because you're basically turning Marth into a tech-chasable character, and sticking him on a tiny strip of land against a character with 10+ launch moves in her moveset (and half of them stay out for half a second or longer).

That said, Pokemon's not as bad as Yoshi/FoD/BF because the lack of a top platform to trap certain DIs after dairs and other launches. So landing on the platform / not landing on the platform is comparable.
 
DuckPimp

DuckPimp

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In the Land of Amazeia...
so essentially, just settle for the di behind and take a ftilt fair or something rather than get combo'd on a platform? yeah i can see how that works, i guess what people usually see is what youre talking about with sheik players not using all of sheiks options against a person on a platform...
 
TheCrimsonBlur

TheCrimsonBlur

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Jan 2, 2005
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Order of preference vs. Sheik:
1. Yoshis
2. Stadium
3. FD
4. FoD
5. Battlefield
6. Dreamland

I usually strike Dreamland and Battlefield and we end up on either FD or FoD. I don't think Marth is particularly terrible on any one stage (Dreamland is not THAT bad) so I can see why people with different playstyles would disagree.

What would your list be like KK?
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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DuckPimp said:
so essentially, just settle for the di behind and take a ftilt fair or something rather than get combo'd on a platform? yeah i can see how that works, i guess what people usually see is what youre talking about with sheik players not using all of sheiks options against a person on a platform...
Click to expand...
Most Sheiks waveland regrab at the wrong percent / time / etc. Or they miss the up air because they suck. Or they don't drift properly so the dair doesn't cover 3/4 options. Or so forth and so on. This can all be remedied by knowing how to play your character, but this is a struggle for most Sheik players.
 
danieljosebatista

danieljosebatista

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241
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Evanston, IL / Miramar, FL
Hey guys, can anyone give me some good tips on the Marth ditto matchup? I played at a tournament recently and it was clear to me that I have difficulty fighting my own character. I understand how to fight spacies, but dealing with another Marth can be frustrating :/
 
Dr Peepee

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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You guys were right, FD served me well today. =)

I ended up not liking FoD too much but I think it could be playable, even though I think I liked it the least of all the neutrals I played the matchup on.
 
MT_

MT_

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Can someone break down the DI options after getting grabbed by sheik and their corresponding punishments at each percent range? I thought the chaingrab was guaranteed at lower percent; does DI behind, up, or no DI prevent you from getting chaingrabbed?

I played a set against a sheik that never missed a techchase grab when I DI'd to a platform, but at the same time would chaingrab me every time I didn't go to a platform, but I think I just have a misunderstanding of what sheik can do at each percent off of a grab.
 
Metal Reeper

Metal Reeper

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MT_ said:
Can someone break down the DI options after getting grabbed by sheik and their corresponding punishments at each percent range? I thought the chaingrab was guaranteed at lower percent; does DI behind, up, or no DI prevent you from getting chaingrabbed?

I played a set against a sheik that never missed a techchase grab when I DI'd to a platform, but at the same time would chaingrab me every time I didn't go to a platform, but I think I just have a misunderstanding of what sheik can do at each percent off of a grab.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that Sheik can chaingrab to 10% after that you can DI away a little bit and jump away from her. She might be able to follow that up with maybe a Utilt or Usmash or something gay. But thats how I get out of it....but IDK if it's legit cause like KK has said abillion times every Sheik sucks. If you DI away at higher % she's just gonna fair you.

Someone correct this if im completely wrong please.

EDIT: I think I just read something on the last page and KK completely ****s on everything I just said lol.

danieljosebatista said:
Hey guys, can anyone give me some good tips on the Marth ditto matchup? I played at a tournament recently and it was clear to me that I have difficulty fighting my own character. I understand how to fight spacies, but dealing with another Marth can be frustrating :/
Click to expand...
At low % you can do stupid stuff like Fthrow>Fthrow>Tippered Fsmash. If they know anything about Marth dittos they will DI it and your Fsmash will fail. But it can still get people sometimes. You can also do Uthrow>Utilt at low %. Just keep Marth above you and he will probably come down with a fair, just DD it and **** him for it. Don't just throw out double fairs, that doesn't work in Marth dittos. Wait for him to throw out an attack and just **** em.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Yea she gets uptilts and usmash on DI behind. At really low % this doesn't combo super hard tho so it's pretty much always your best move in that situation.

At higher percent (like ~90) if you DI behind she can sweetspot usmash KO you so I think once you get past CG percent, depending on how much stage is left in front of you it could be better to just take the dthrow fair and skid along the stage to the edge or try to recover if you can manage to DJ to the ledge out of it or something.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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There is an optimal amazing super DI that prevents up tilt follows at low percent AND you can't regrab it but I'm not telling because that would make life slightly harder from 0-15%.
 
OverLord

OverLord

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I don't know. I play PAL.

I just thought about how it could work and that seems to me as a good try.
Away to not get caught in Utilt and Up to get out of stun before regrabbing is allowed. North-East.

It sounds fairly reasonable. Try it out for me.
 
Metal Reeper

Metal Reeper

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At low % you could DI into them if they Dthrow you. Then they will nair, then just DI the nair behind them and get out of it.
Nando ****ed me up for trying that on him lol....good Falcons are good.
 
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