.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
You have fun playing puff don't you? Also, get @ me about that controller dude.
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Pi
Smash Hero
here's a question
how do/can you get good in the ditto matchup? with any character (not with all, but none specifically, just as a general matchup; the ditto)
especially when u think the player is better than you, or you have thought that?
how do you overcome that? latch on to any and everything you can find that you might do better than them and slowly climb ur way up?
how do/can you get good in the ditto matchup? with any character (not with all, but none specifically, just as a general matchup; the ditto)
especially when u think the player is better than you, or you have thought that?
how do you overcome that? latch on to any and everything you can find that you might do better than them and slowly climb ur way up?
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
As with any matchup, you get better by playing it and studying it. The uniqueness of the ditto, however, is that you are playing against the character you are, so not only should you study yourself but the opponent as you play them. Mimic their tendencies and watch what they do to get around it, then mimic that. The ditto is a constant adaptation more so than any other matchup because you are both playing the same character. At the end of the ditto, it really is more about who's the better player than any other matchup I would say.
Pi
Smash Hero
I feel the same way
the problem I have, mostly, is that how can you go from losing to someone in the ditto, to beating them.
I feel like more than anything other matchup, that one would be tough to overcome the mindset/confidence issue.
I've always thought I was 'bad' in the samus ditto
and the samus' I lose too just seem far more confident in the matchup than I, whether or not they have more experience
It's just something I struggle with mentally I guess
I just feel like it would be hard to not only become as confident or more so in the matchup than they are (if they've beaten you previously), but also would be difficult to take that confidence away from them...
the problem I have, mostly, is that how can you go from losing to someone in the ditto, to beating them.
I feel like more than anything other matchup, that one would be tough to overcome the mindset/confidence issue.
I've always thought I was 'bad' in the samus ditto
and the samus' I lose too just seem far more confident in the matchup than I, whether or not they have more experience
It's just something I struggle with mentally I guess
I just feel like it would be hard to not only become as confident or more so in the matchup than they are (if they've beaten you previously), but also would be difficult to take that confidence away from them...
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
marth people...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7GV0kO9gJI
Please critique my marth. This is one of the first tourney vids of my marth in a whole set. Please don't hold back. Looking for some good feedback
=)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7GV0kO9gJI
Please critique my marth. This is one of the first tourney vids of my marth in a whole set. Please don't hold back. Looking for some good feedback
=)
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
LETS GET MARTH BACK IN THE GAME PEOPLE!
his metagame has been so sad lately
and by lately i mean the past few years
his metagame has been so sad lately
and by lately i mean the past few years
OverLord
Smash Ace
Very nice Marth man, fast and clean.
Don't waste your jump so soon while recovering, and work a bit more on the edgeguard and comboing.
Not much to say, keep playing like this, just a bit more patient while comboing and edgeguarding, so that you can cover all of the options easier.
You let a lot of things go. Work on your punishment game a bit more Tim. I've always liked your Marth though so yea. Man I wish my recording setup worked
I wanna record too =(
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Why do Marth's always Uthrow on platforms rather than just throwing them off and go for an edgeguard?
I see Taj Tai and Swift do it a lot. To me it's just always better to throw them off....or am I missing something?
I see Taj Tai and Swift do it a lot. To me it's just always better to throw them off....or am I missing something?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Because smart spacies won't just get gimped all day with Dthrow so throwing them on a platform gets you quite a bit of free damage if you guess right and if executed properly gives you a chance to edgeguard anyways
Besides you can use your big up attacks to cover multiple options when you put them on a platform, and if they get out, well they're still above Marth, which isn't usually a good thing ...
I mean is Dthrow them off, hope they're ******** and jump into the Dtilt really what you want to be hoping for? Sweetspotting past onstage stuff with a doublejump isn't all that hard to do and any space animal with half a brain will do so
Besides you can use your big up attacks to cover multiple options when you put them on a platform, and if they get out, well they're still above Marth, which isn't usually a good thing ...
I mean is Dthrow them off, hope they're ******** and jump into the Dtilt really what you want to be hoping for? Sweetspotting past onstage stuff with a doublejump isn't all that hard to do and any space animal with half a brain will do so
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
No always throw them off if you have the chance
What are your guys' thoughts on the falco matchup? obviously a great deal of it is grabs and edgeguards, but sometimes I feel I'm unable to deal with his pressure. Lasers from far away **** with my dashdance, and if I shield them the shield pressure starts and I feel like I can't deal with it. Should I work on my oos game? or try to avoid his pressure without use of my shield?
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
getting a char off stage is what this game is about. if you have the chance, take it. i agree with aberx10000
Niko45
Smash Master
I only up throw if the percent and positioning means dthrow won't actually get them off stage.
Always always always do it if you can.
Always always always do it if you can.
I'm not sure whether Taj, Tai, or swift do it for the same reasons I do personally but as for me I do it as a mixup.
There are 2 broad situations when grabbing a spacie and the edge:
Opponent DIs the throw away and off the stage, or opponent DIs the throw in and towards the stage.
I occasionally throw in upthrow because it punishes DI away which is the *correct* DI direction vs fthrow. It disables any real punishment marth can do as a follow up aside from outrageous throw himself off the stage stuff.
If they DI the upthrow away you can catch an easy fsmash tipper or a FH dair.
Same goes for the fthrow but opposite idea. If they DI the upthrow in you miss your chance for an edgeguard opportunity. However if you fthrow and they DI in you can catch a fthrow tipper fsmash to edgeguard.
Thats why I personally mix it up with both.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
I like making them play honest. I usually test that with the from 0-2% forward (psuedo) chain throw and if they are near the edge and at low percent I will almost alway throw them off first.(except on FD because there is a nice mixup with DI that tec0 taught me that should be used as a 50/50). I mean If they are prepared/DI an uthrow and tech its pretty hard to chase them sometimes. At least with a forward throw that may be lead to them having to upB which gives you a chance to add on damage or at the least put them in a sticky situation.(in the cases where I forward throw off the ledge that usually happens or is close to happening). But yeah I try to keep it honest too against fox/falco because Uthrow and Forward can be played against much easier if the opponent is looking for it. trust me, from a former(kinda still am) fox main there is nothing more scary at lower-mid percents than having a marth grab you and not know where to DI. Add that with being chain thrown forward from 0 and trying to guess if you should buffer a roll, jab, jump or whatever and trying to decide whether to prepare for an upthrow instead and you have yourself in a real pickle early in the stock.
In short, I like to try and keep fox/falco honest and at this time I feel that forward throw off the stage is more conducive to my style. I am not a big combo'er yet and I rather have that stage control that marth is so famous for rather than try to combo things that I can't execute on a high level.
Hailey can you be more specific about what not to let go? Like on edgeguards or like on stage?
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
I dash attack under Falco's lasers. Works for me.
Just try and get better at powershields and wavedash OoS. I am realllly aggressive in this MU.
You could just waveland on a platform and fall down with a fair, it's not that bad. I also hear that lightshielding is ok vs Falco. I need to experiment with that one though.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Why would you limit yourself like that and be content that your style is good enough? Why not be able to do everything to it's maximum potential instead? Basically, don't say you CAN'T do it.. figure out more options/combos for yourself, it helps, really.
For example, I used to think I had absolutely no tech skill and that I convinced myself that I would never be able to play Fox/Falco at all but eventually the more I played Falco the more I was able to do the tech skill required to do good stuff... in the end for me it was all about practicing the things I sucked at... and somehow I was still able to do something I thought was impossible for myself.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
I see what you're saying Kage, but in a tournament match, I'd say he should just go for what hes most comfortable with. If hes better at stage control than combos with Marth, then I don't see why fthrow is a bad choice.
Btw Swift your Marth is getting a lot better. Its made a big jump in skill from the last time I saw it imo..
Niko45
Smash Master
Basically if you notice that a spacie consistently DIs your fthrow dtilt away (avoiding the dtilt), you could up throw dair instead as long as they're at like 40-80%.
But honestly you can't go wrong with fthrow offstage cause it forces them to DJ back if they DI away which opens the door for you to steal ledge or put a hitbox in the ledge area.
So I'm really not sure if it's as complicated as keeping them honest or a matter of style as much as its just plain really good.
But honestly you can't go wrong with fthrow offstage cause it forces them to DJ back if they DI away which opens the door for you to steal ledge or put a hitbox in the ledge area.
So I'm really not sure if it's as complicated as keeping them honest or a matter of style as much as its just plain really good.
Its funny when I think about it more its hard to like explain what I meant I think your combos is okay. I think you can tighten it up a bit but overall its fine.
I guess what I meant was your edgeguarding because it seems to me that you have the right read but you don't trust it.
I say I guess I mean because when I first saw it I got this feeling that you were playing your Marth like a fox with long range. Where you try to end everything with a hard hit but.... I can't find a reason except a few occasions so iunno.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Yes of course but I'm just saying, in the meantime you should train optimally and try out new things when you can. I was just saying this in general not anything specific.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
Its not that kage, but I tend to try to do too much since I am a a former fox/falco main. We have this preception that if we play those two that we can play everyone technical and fast.
that post had more to deal with my learning curve and how i learn in general
xD I know what you mean hahhaha.
That influenced me a lot when I started playing sheik. I tried to be like a pseudo fox main or something xD.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
yeah like its tough coming from the top tier char with the shortest range to marth.................
Just keep playing him in stuff Tim. You'll get used to him eventually. Make sure to use his DI tricksies stuff.
It makes him so scary.
It makes him so scary.
Lovage
Smash Hero
Juno McGrath
Smash Hero
Weon x is seriously the best ****ing tag ever
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
It sounds pretty bad arse I must admit.
Max?
Smash Champion
Swift you're dropping Fox for Marth ?!?!/!!?!?!?
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
i was a fox main for 1-2 years before switching to marth (in 2009)
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
I will never discard fox. I have too much skill with him and it would be a waste. I am really trying to suck it up and play marth. I just always have a conflict with the desire to win when i play in matchups that my marth isn't prepared for yet. I think I have a good gauge on when he becomes ready but I now try to pull him out anyways regardless.(hence getting 4 stocked by thorn at that same tourney). but like that kind of stuff needs to happen.
Hindawg
Smash Journeyman
Had no idea Weon let Dart have a fourth game, not sure what to make of that. All I know is that I played Weon x in a falco ditto and I won convincingly, and then we played later the same day and his Fox took an elephant size **** on me so therefore the only logical explanation for Weon allowing a 4th game must have been that he knew Dart was playing bad and wasn't worried about losing.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
that reminds me dart, we still have a money match at Revival. There will be no run backs with me.
Max?
Smash Champion
I totally hear you on that. I've considered switching from Doc a number of times and have used Spacies/Marth in tourney just to try and mix it up/get that experience/use them when Doc's not up to par.... but man is it hard lol. I have such a hard time trying to figure out the best time to switch and when to stick it out.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well it's usually required to put as much practice time with alts than with your main but obviously that takes a lot of time to do so. Since I think a different mindset for every character is needed to do well with them at the same level.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
When i got four stocked by th0rn, I was finally relieved of my questions about how my marth would do. Now I can move on and improve from it. I say that whenever faced with the impulse to change, if you have even some confidence and have been practicing with that char I say give it a shot. I mean I dun play IC at all so I wouldn't like CP a sheik with IC just beacuse I think the matchup is easy. I legit play marth more than fox now in friendlies and hopefully in tourney at some time...
Max?
Smash Champion
Good advice. Truth be told I practice my other characters way more than my Doc in friendlies and the times I've switched I've had success, tho I haven't really done it in a tournament situation vs. a player I considered better than me. Most of the time I only switch vs. players people assume I should beat, so it doesn't really get me anywhere. It's sort of a pride thing I guess... Still tho, I'll def keep this in mind. Next tourney Swift we should do some $1 mm's with our jank characters, I could def use the practice.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Heh ya.. It's pretty scary to go against a player equally skilled or better than you with an alt, hell even lower skilled sometimes because you don't really know if your character is going to work or not.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
^ And that is why Kage never goes Falcon (thank god)