Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Tee ay eye]

jab comes out in 4 frames
d-smash comes out in 5 frames (max distance in 6)
u-tilt comes out in 6 frames
grab comes out in 7 frames
d-tilt comes out in 7 frames
f-smash comes out in 10 frames (max distance in 11)

i love marth's d-smash

i edgeguard fox and falco's firefox/firebirds a lot with it (i'm just pretty good at knowing when it's going to connect). i remember one time i edgeguarded L's fox with it in a friendly on the DGDTJ stream and apparently people flipped out

whenever you up B onto the stage, and sheik (and some other characters) do the slow (100% and higher) roll onto the stage thinking that you're going for the edge, you can oftentimes get an auto-spaced tipper d-smash on them (that will kill unless you're on dreamland)

i also like to use marth's (non-tipper) d-smash at high percents to deny grab attempts (think about how peach and sheik use their d-smashes) because it's so fast. for example, if i up B onto the stage (or miss a laggy attack) and then your opponent runs in to grab, i like to mash the c-stick down when i'm in landing lag, so that the d-smash just sweeps them away (because jab won't do much and the other moves are too slow)


asdfjasdlfjknaslfkansdkf

 

[Dart!]

i will have to try that. just another thing i can do to humiliate fox. has anyone tried forward b regrab on ledge to mindgame people?

moving this to the next page.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I use dsmash for when I think they'll get their shield up in time if I fsmash

 

[the_CAM_factor]

forward b is an amazing mindgame. half the time people immediately shield after and you just get a free grab

 

[Strong Badam]

i also like to use marth's (non-tipper) d-smash at high percents to deny grab attempts (think about how peach and sheik use their d-smashes) because it's so fast. for example, if i up B onto the stage (or miss a laggy attack) and then your opponent runs in to grab, i like to mash the c-stick down when i'm in landing lag, so that the d-smash just sweeps them away (because jab won't do much and the other moves are too slow)


asdfjasdlfjknaslfkansdkf

buffering a spotdodge or roll would be easier but also easier to read. i'd suggest trying them out in this situation and see what works =)

 

[MasterShake]

Or leik dis? lolz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlIWYs6Ai-M&#t=7m37s

 

[Dart!]

can't believe that puff styled on you at the end.

 

[MasterShake]

It's kay I got my revenge on him next tournament. Also those kinds of things are expected to happen to bad players lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Something kind of cute with the side-B stall (you only get one!) is that you can ledgehop side-B after and its decline sort of warps you onto the stage from the air really quickly. So you get your feet planted quickly and it's less obvious than a ledgehop aerial.

Still just a cute trick, though. Not really useful.

Marth's jab is incredibly effective against people that try to bum-rush him when he's at the edge. Mini-waveland so you get as much invincibility as possible and then jab Fox out of SHFFLs... it's pretty good. Works on non-Fox, too. It's one of I.B's neat little tricks that I don't see other Marths do very often.

I think Up+B OOS is a really good trick against Peach dash attacks. Surprise KO moves they don't expect (they DI away for the dair OOS and shield-grab > f-throw a lot, so Up+B screws them) can cause them to rethink their gameplan.

I dunno. Up+B OOS against certain kinds of laggy moves is a pretty good surprise KO / edgeguard setup. Marth shouldn't want to be shielding; he's much stronger when he's not. But it'll happen and random tricks are great. A random stock you wouldn't have if you used a normal strategy can make a really big difference in whether you win a set or not.

 

[the_CAM_factor]

i didn't know that about marths side-b time to be cool with it in freindlys

 

[Dr Peepee]

Cool tricks. Thanks for the info, KK. =)

I saw M2K do a reverse Fair OOS here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQrTX3fPbQs#t=2m43s on PC and it seemed like a cool trick since I guess Fair would hit sooner than dair?

I dunno I thought I'd share in case anyone liked the idea lol.

 

[Moooose]

samus is fun to beat on wildly. it's like falco vs everybody with how mindless you can raep her.

just imagine how fun falco v samus is

 

[Niko45]

Been trying to work up B oos into my game more. It actually doesnt ****ing kill anything until annoyingly high percent, but it's still pretty good I think.

 

[Max?]

just imagine how fun falco v samus is

l ol

 

[Dart!]

Cool tricks. Thanks for the info, KK. =)

I saw M2K do a reverse Fair OOS here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQrTX3fPbQs#t=2m43s on PC and it seemed like a cool trick since I guess Fair would hit sooner than dair?

I dunno I thought I'd share in case anyone liked the idea lol.

In that situation fox could have upsmashed all day before that fair hit. but it was 2007

 

[Niko45]

It's crazy how much better m2k and PC are now.

Fair comes out in 4 frames on top/behind Marth tho. That's really ****ing good and must be abused more.

 

[Dr Peepee]

In that situation fox could have upsmashed all day before that fair hit. but it was 2007

Well the point was PC was waiting for the roll or jump since he knew M2K knew PC could have upsmashed. Sure it's not the best thing to do often but it's a funny mixup in that type of situation.

 

[Aber]

In that situation fox could have upsmashed all day before that fair hit. but it was 2007

Why would he upsmash M2ks's shield?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Marth's jab is incredibly effective against people that try to bum-rush him when he's at the edge. Mini-waveland so you get as much invincibility as possible and then jab Fox out of SHFFLs... it's pretty good. Works on non-Fox, too. It's one of I.B's neat little tricks that I don't see other Marths do very often.

Stealing this!

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Been trying to work up B oos into my game more. It actually doesnt ****ing kill anything until annoyingly high percent, but it's still pretty good I think.

This actually isn't true. I use up B quite often and get cheap kills with it on pretty much the entire cast (we're talking 70 - 100%). When it's not expected the DI is incredibly bad and gets the opponent off stage in a hurry. Battlefield and Yoshi's are especially good with it because you can land immediately upon the top platform and you'll be pretty safe even if they don't go flying too far.

 

[Niko45]

Well I guess it's not true for you then. In my experience it's not uncommon for it to be DI'd properly and to not KO in the 130s and what not.

It's pretty good on YS and on missed DI tho I'm not saying it's like a bad move.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Well I guess it's not true for you then. In my experience it's not uncommon for it to be DI'd properly and to not KO in the 130s and what not.

It's pretty good on YS and on missed DI tho I'm not saying it's like a bad move.

Well, I guess technically every move is good and every move is bad depending upon the situation. Except for shine, that move is gay.

 

[Thoraxe]

so i have a dumb question that has probably already been asked several times, but what is the best combination of sword dances on heavies at low percents and floaties in general. yeah i'm aware sword dancing around is impractical most of the time, but its a fast attack and occasionally it has decent potential... somewhere? or does it?

 

[Dart!]

Why would he upsmash M2ks's shield?

when he jumped if pc was expecting the jump he could have just upsmash. but as PP stated he was waiting for a different option to punish. my point was just about upsmash vs that though ^_^

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

so i have a dumb question that has probably already been asked several times, but what is the best combination of sword dances on heavies at low percents and floaties in general. yeah i'm aware sword dancing around is impractical most of the time, but its a fast attack and occasionally it has decent potential... somewhere? or does it?

The sword dance combinations I see the most are

Low percents on spacies/heavy characters: forward B three times
High percents on floaties: forward B once, utilt for kill

Miscellaneous: forward B once, grab (not a true combo but it sometimes works)

A big problem with sword dance is that the second hit, no matter what direction you do, is too laggy and knocks the opponent in way too weird of a position for you to do anything from it. (Edit: this usually happens more often at high percents on spacies/heavies) For example, the forward second hit can easily hit the person behind you, but you're too laggy to do anything about it and the third hit is obviously going to miss.

tai, edgeguarding with dsmash lol. i need to try that.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

The sword dance combinations I see the most are

Low percents on spacies/heavy characters: forward B three times
High percents on floaties: forward B once, utilt for kill

Miscellaneous: forward B once, grab (not a true combo but it sometimes works)

A big problem with sword dance is that the second hit, no matter what direction you do, is too laggy and knocks the opponent in way too weird of a position for you to do anything from it. For example, the forward second hit can easily hit the person behind you, but you're too laggy to do anything about it and the third hit is obviously going to miss.

tai, edgeguarding with dsmash lol. i need to try that.

Since we are on the topic of dancing blade, anyone ever thought of using the string of up dances to attack a non tech upon a platform? I actually checked this out, and the 4th part of up covers more of the platform than any other move. Not that I've ever used it personally, just wondering what you guys think about it. Now I'm curious as to whether it hits above the platform on DL. Probably does.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'd like to know how you would have enough time to perform the 4th hit of DB, and have someone not tech on a platform if they were given that much time that you could get 4th DB out.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

That would be.. interesting..

on the topic of DL's lower platforms, I love them. You can't tipper fsmash but you don't need to when you can tipper utilt, fair, and uair. Full hop tipper uair puts you perfectly on the platform as well for more chasing. I'm pretty sure you can also full hop double fair onto the lower platforms as well as an alternative way to pressure.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I'd like to know how you would have enough time to perform the 4th hit of DB, and have someone not tech on a platform if they were given that much time that you could get 4th DB out.

What I mean is that an uthrow onto a platform often results in a missed tech from the opponent. What I and most Marth's do is either read the tech and try to utilt before a spotdodge/jump, or short hop, read the tech, then uair, l cancel, utilt. I'm wondering what would happen if you uthrow onto a platform then wavedash back and start the dancing blade. You technically wouldn't have to read the tech because of the range it has and most of the hits reach above the platform (again, not sure on DL, probably only 1 or 2)

 

[Winston]

^ There's no way you'd have enough time to wavedash back and then get to the later hits sword dance before they get out of their tech in place lag

The sword dance combinations I see the most are

Low percents on spacies/heavy characters: forward B three times
High percents on floaties: forward B once, utilt for kill

Miscellaneous: forward B once, grab (not a true combo but it sometimes works)

A big problem with sword dance is that the second hit, no matter what direction you do, is too laggy and knocks the opponent in way too weird of a position for you to do anything from it. (Edit: this usually happens more often at high percents on spacies/heavies) For example, the forward second hit can easily hit the person behind you, but you're too laggy to do anything about it and the third hit is obviously going to miss.

Yea, this is why I don't use sword dance too often, but I think it's an EXCELLENT surprise move because it's fairly hard to punish/react to and DI out of when unexpected, it's strong enough that it'll knock down a space animal or send them offstage at a little higher percent, and it covers a gap in Marth's spacing that other moves don't cover as well.

About the combinations: I've heard that the side side down (the meteor spike one) is the best one to use against CCers at low percent.

Also, if they shield it, I think side side side down (the rapid hits one) is the safest on block).

 

[.Chipmunk.]

^ There's no way you'd have enough time to wavedash back and then get to the later hits sword dance before they get out of their tech in place lag

I'm not talking tech in place. If they tech in place you don't need to wait and react, you can just react right away. I'm talking about a non tech which leaves them laying upon the ground. Marth's normally wait for that guy to either roll or start to get up before doing some sort of attack. I wanted to know the legitimacy of not waiting and just wavedashing back and doing a string of moves that will cover all parts of the platform.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, if they go to one side of the platform compared to where you started from, you will not have enough time to get the attack across before they can act again. Besides, not too much reward. I'd rather profit off a fsmash if they roll or Utilt if they get-up.

Still, neat idea to try for a combo video perhaps lol And DB4^ will hit DL's lower platform.

 

[Metal Reeper]

@chipmunk You don't understand. Good players will not get hit by that at all. Utilt will always be better in that situation.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

@chipmunk You don't understand. Good players will not get hit by that at all. Utilt will always be better in that situation.

Sometimes doing the unexpected thing, however crazy it might be, works. It's not something I've ever considered doing, just asking questions.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

It's good thinking, don't be too harsh. After all thinking outside the box is how the metagame is developed.

In your case as other people have already described, you're thinking about the situation where marth is below a platform and the opponent is on the platform but hasn't teched anywhere because they're both waiting for each other to commit to something (marth waiting to punish a roll, the opponent waiting for marth to attack so he can roll away from it). the only problem is that committing to a 3 second plus attack sequence like dancing blade will let the opponent escape unharmed.

 

[Dart!]

i lost to samus and falco at the last tournament. *sigh* i'm getting an m2k complex vs falco it seems.

 

[DuckPimp]

lol m2k complex. falco is just gay.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Sometimes you gotta go old school and just bait him to the ledge and gimp.

 

[Metal Reeper]

My philosophy in that MU is to be very aggressive. Good Falcos won't go to the ledge. (Not Shiz)

 

[.Chipmunk.]

My philosophy in that MU is to be very aggressive. Good Falcos won't go to the ledge. (Not Shiz)

Shiz's philosophy = "You can't beat me, I'm Shiz." lol, too good. Proper baiting will get anyone to the ledge. If you can't make them come to you on the ledge, you can surely back them up to the ledge without them being all that aware of it. When I'm conscious of it, I actually try to get the falco to the zone just outside of the ledge, that way they feel safe enough, but it doesn't take much to get them off of the stage.