Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Tee ay eye]

it does not auto-cancel. there's a pretty significant difference.

you can usually tell based on whether dust clouds come up when you land. if it auto-cancels, it'll have this weird white splash, but it's not really dusty looking.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So apparently there are things you cannot tech in this game? What can't you tech? Someone mentioned the windmill on poke stadium.

 

[Niko45]

One thing to be aware of is that Fox can definitely shine you out of the continuous offstage side B edgeguard if your timing isn't great, and I'm not even sure if it's a timing thing because PC seems to get me with that when I go for side B's a lot of the time.

 

[Winston]

Hmmm, I've never played someone who does that, so I don't know how to get around that...

How about... drift back a bit to space yourself as you're falling? If the side B is spaced at max distance I can't see him shining you out of it. I imagine it's optimal to space yourself slightly higher than him as well. If he's too high for that you can probably counter, since there's a minimum distance required to angle past it.

Another possibility is to drop down past him and clip him with the weak part of the up B so he can't tech it.

Idk if any of this stuff works, just speculating. I feel like there must be an answer to that situation that doesn't let him tech though. (the situation being him up Bing below the stage, but too close to it horizontally for you to go for a normal reverse up B/fair gimp).

 

[Niko45]

I'm going to play around with this edgeguard a bit more and see just how effective it is. You can DI so much off a side B my instinct is that there are genuine ways to survive for Fox but idk.

I would comment that I don't like down tilt compared to fsmash against a low up B. Dtilt sourspot gets burned and you can't cover vertical up B without putting yourself at risk of being burned if Fox rides the stage. Fsmash (as long as the move fully gets out) has more range where the up B does not burn you.

Dtilt is amazing against high up B's because basically you cover the up B right on to the ledge and force them to go straight or high which you can punish after the down tilt.

 

[Winston]

Hmm, can't you cover vertical up B by missing with the dtilt and then hitting them with something else? You may be right about not using dtilt for those situations though. I have had issues with getting burned by up B before but I figured that was just me not spacing/timing it right. Don't you have to sort of predict when to time your fsmash though?

And yeah I dtilt a lot vs. high up Bs; it does lose to them going straight at you though depending on their height when they started. Fsmash covers that but may not cover them going upward angled.

Sometimes I feel like ftilt hits the downward angled up B sweetspot if you are close enough to the edge but im not sure ...

 

[Keblerelf]

Is it worth using nair?

 

[MasterShake]

So apparently there are things you cannot tech in this game? What can't you tech? Someone mentioned the windmill on poke stadium.

Well you can't wall tech the windmill but you can certainly tech on it.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Hmm, can't you cover vertical up B by missing with the dtilt and then hitting them with something else? You may be right about not using dtilt for those situations though. I have had issues with getting burned by up B before but I figured that was just me not spacing/timing it right. Don't you have to sort of predict when to time your fsmash though?

And yeah I dtilt a lot vs. high up Bs; it does lose to them going straight at you though depending on their height when they started. Fsmash covers that but may not cover them going upward angled.

Sometimes I feel like ftilt hits the downward angled up B sweetspot if you are close enough to the edge but im not sure ...

ftilt? (character limit grrr)

 

[Strong Badam]

CC does two things - it reduces knockback, and halves the hitstun.

multiplies both knockback and hitstun by 0.6667 (2/3)

 

[Winston]

ftilt? (character limit grrr)

Not sure what you mean by ftilt. Are you suggesting I should use it to hit up Bs coming from below? I don't think it hits low enough for that, at least not compared to neutral B/fsmash, and it isn't really strong enough to guarantee a kill at low-mid percents I think.

multiplies both knockback and hitstun by 0.6667 (2/3)

neat, thanks

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Not sure what you mean by ftilt. Are you suggesting I should use it to hit up Bs coming from below? I don't think it hits low enough for that, at least not compared to neutral B/fsmash, and it isn't really strong enough to guarantee a kill at low-mid percents I think.

I'm suggesting that ftilt removes the complaints you have about dtilt. I don't know if it works for up Bs from below. You could always test it, I usually try to jump off stage for edge guarding once fox or falco drops below the side b option.

 

[Winston]

Yeah, I've been using ftilt a lot more in edgeguarding lately, but I haven't been at it long enough to know exactly when it works and when it doesn't. It's been working pretty well so far.

and yea agreed @ offstage edgeguarding. You can't always get there in time, though.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Yeah, I've been using ftilt a lot more in edgeguarding lately, but I haven't been at it long enough to know exactly when it works and when it doesn't. It's been working pretty well so far.

and yea agreed @ offstage edgeguarding. You can't always get there in time, though.

You don't -have- to get there though. Remember, they only have 1 direction to go. Back towards the stage. If you can't make it in time, meet them in the middle by cutting off the angle of approach. If you're close enough, fair will cover every single return option. Look at it this way, from the point of up B the angle is sweetspot to the point in which they can hold foward after the up B and grab the ledge. As long as you are inside that angle and toss out a fair you'll connect. While trades are not ideal, you can still recover fast enough to get another edge guard in should it be needed after the trade.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hey guys hows it goin?
I was wondering what do you guys think is the best way for Marth to punish a missed tech? I've been thinking late Fair's cause it's really safe and has combo potential, the only problem is it kinda takes awhile for that to come out. I guess I could just Fsmash but.....I wanna do something else lol.

If you trade with Marth you lose.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Hey guys hows it goin?
I was wondering what do you guys think is the best way for Marth to punish a missed tech? I've been thinking late Fair's cause it's really safe and has combo potential, the only problem is it kinda takes awhile for that to come out. I guess I could just Fsmash but.....I wanna do something else lol.

If you trade with Marth you lose.

Tech chase for a grab, Side B reset, jab reset, or dtilt. If you want to get fancy, pop em up with a shffl dair and then utilt or regrab.

 

[sulliman1]

up bs from below>3rd hit DED down

 

[.Chipmunk.]

up bs from below>3rd hit DED down

DED? That's Roy. Marth has the dancing blade, and I would never recommend DB as an edge guard. It's purely for lulz or off stage suicides when you are up a few stocks.

 

[ryulord_678]

One of the guys I played against recently (I was fox, he was marth) did this awesome dancing blade third hit and spiked me right as i was firefoxing past the ledge.

Maybe not guaranteed, but it sure looks cool when it works ^_^

-rl

 

[.Chipmunk.]

One of the guys I played against recently (I was fox, he was marth) did this awesome dancing blade third hit and spiked me right as i was firefoxing past the ledge.

Maybe not guaranteed, but it sure looks cool when it works ^_^

-rl

Yes, it looks cool, but it isn't a spike and can be meteor canceled so is almost never a guaranteed kill. Also, the amount of options that are better is...i don't know...how many other moves does marth have?

 

[sulliman1]

whoops db of course you're right but there was a clear trollface to indicate that it's not a serious option

 

[Dart!]

Hey guys hows it goin?
I was wondering what do you guys think is the best way for Marth to punish a missed tech? I've been thinking late Fair's cause it's really safe and has combo potential, the only problem is it kinda takes awhile for that to come out. I guess I could just Fsmash but.....I wanna do something else lol.

If you trade with Marth you lose.

jiggs wins most of those trades as does peach.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^ That question does bring up a point I and others have issues with. Choosing the best and most effective punish for a given situation.

It's like with a single grab, I could go for some Utilt -> Uair chains on Falco for a while, or just Fsmash him now at 40% and get him off the stage and go for an edge guard attempt which could (and should) lead to a loss of a stock. But if you fail, you lost out on a chance to get a lot of damage done.

Or someone just missed an Lcancel on shield, would an OoS Dair work better as a combo starter than a grab might? Dair sets up real nice for Fsmash at that mid-high percent range.

 

[Dart!]

I just had a breakthrough on the peach and jiggs matchups. holy ****, don't know if it would be worth it to drop a huge *** post on it or not though.

we should talk about peach jiggs and ganon, i reaaaaaaaallly wanna work on those 3 matchups if anyone else is interested in breaking them down.

 

[t-iceman]

I just had a breakthrough on the peach and jiggs matchups. holy ****, don't know if it would be worth it to drop a huge *** post on it or not though.

we should talk about peach jiggs and ganon, i reaaaaaaaallly wanna work on those 3 matchups if anyone else is interested in breaking them down.

drop that **** all over the chest of the marth boards dart, we need it.

 

[Dart!]

all right, i'm going to write out what i have and see if there are any examples in video form and get back to you guys in a few days or so.

 

[Tee ay eye]

write it out so i can agree/disagree with you from a scientific standpoint

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If it involves swinging your sword harder and faster than previous, then lol

But Jigglypuff? My observations are shielding is not really that great because it's easy to space against and not get punished for attacks marth's shield with jiggs Bair. Spacing with dashes, wavedash back, walking, and the occasional spaced approach works a lot better. SideB/Jab work well as poking moves and leads into small follow-ups. Don't get stuck on the ledge.

That's like the whole match-up waiting for hit confirms and getting aggressive on the those single hits and maintain air control afterwards.

 

[Dart!]

What i'm thinking about doing, is writing up my breakthrough as a whole and what it means for the peach and puff matchups. and how this can be utilized (it may already be known but isn't stressed enough who knows) in other matchups.

 

[DuckPimp]

I am excited

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I'd really appreciate a writeup on Peach. I've recently hit a wall in that matchup, though I think some video watching has caused me to make a breakthrough.

I could probably also write a really, really lengthy post on Puff, but I feel that I just need to get technical enough to show everyone why Marth wrecks her...

 

[.Chipmunk.]

whoops db of course you're right but there was a clear trollface to indicate that it's not a serious option

I wouldn't trust most of smashboards to realize that was a troll. I'm sure there are plenty of marths that try to get that 3rd hit for the kill cause they saw some 2006 video. lol

I just had a breakthrough on the peach and jiggs matchups. holy ****, don't know if it would be worth it to drop a huge *** post on it or not though.

we should talk about peach jiggs and ganon, i reaaaaaaaallly wanna work on those 3 matchups if anyone else is interested in breaking them down.

With Ganon, I try to utilt and uair him as much as possible. It's takes some combo adlib, but it almost always works as long as you keep that in mind.

Peach? Peach is all about trades so i just try to keep the spacing perfect the entire match, another thing I try to do is empty short hop often. It helps keeps spacing and allows her to throw out the first move so I can react. One thing I do, and I don't know how good it is, but when I bair frequently to keep Peach in the air instead of uair. Like i try to hit with the top of the hitbox to send her up or forward instead of backward. It seems to have a higher success rate, at least for me. Actually, I tipper fair in that MU too. I rarely uair I think. Haven't played it in a while so I'm trying to remember. Wish I had some video of it.

Puff? Puff for me, at least the ones I play, is all about baiting. I try to make the puff think I'm going to grab as often as possible so when I mix it up its unexpected no matter what it is.

Also gonna toss out a question here, how valid would you guys say it is to purposefully take a hit you know won't combo in order to give yourself higher percent to remove certain combo options from the other player?

 

[Tee ay eye]

Actually, I tipper fair in that MU too. I rarely uair I think.

Chipmunk knows what's up

 

[Divinokage]

Utilt and uair Ganon.. How does that help in anyway? How do you utilt and uair him in the first place when usually Ganon wants Marth above him too, I uair marth a lot too you know? lol..

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Chipmunk knows what's up

I just do what works. That's why I'm the best

 

[Dart!]

tech chasing. marth should do it more. discuss, tech chase regrabs. discuss

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I really like walking after my fthrows. I walk to a certain spot where my fsmash would tipper a tech back, and I can easily react w/ grab on the tech in place or tech away.

Its super easy to react to. This character is so broken lol

 

[t-iceman]

I really like walking after my fthrows. I walk to a certain spot where my fsmash would tipper a tech back, and I can easily react w/ grab on the tech in place or tech away.

Its super easy to react to. This character is so broken lol

Id say that empty short hop tech chase is even more hilarious because when people see you in the air they think you're going to fair but instead you just look at them and wait for the tech behind. If you time it right you can grab the stand up tech and fsmash/grab the back tech

 

[Metal Reeper]

^That's called tomahawk techchasing, nobody does it besides me.

 

[t-iceman]

^That's called tomahawk techchasing, nobody does it besides me.

lol, i could name multiple marths in my region that do it