Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Niko45]

The problem with trying to crouch dtilt is that if they do shoot them low enough - and any half decent bird can shoot them low enough since its sorta essential to maining that character - you are going to eat a big combo.

What I do is try to anticipate and get above them either with a full hop or just standing waiting on top of a platform. Then once the first laser is past you you can fair and at the very least force them to shield for a mixup.

If you notice that the first laser is still hitting you if you are doing this then its time to try crouch dtilting. You can also play it conservatively and not try to directly counter these and concede him getting up from the ledge and still use your stage control advantage to fight him afterwards.

The old HBK vs Chops vids always struck me as great examples of dealing with double lasers.

 

[Wenbobular]

I feel like a lot of Falcos actually aren't very good at shooting low LHDL's haha
Crouching Dtilt is like super cold to ledgedash shine though, but whatever

 

[Winston]

Yeah, its not something to rely on. A lot of low to mid level players don't shoot them low enough, though, so if you notice that you can take advantage of it.

 

[crush]

A lot of low to mid level players rarely ledgedash either lol.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

You can crouch -> dtilt a lot of peoples' ledgehop lasers because they don't shoot them low enough.

I think shield -> fair oos between the lasers works too if you have really good timing, not sure though.

If this is possible, I have a new thing to practice!

 

[Metal Reeper]

You can get hit by the first laser, then grab before the 2nd laser hit.
I saw M2K learn it at Apex.

 

[Winston]

Oh yeah, maybe it wasn't shield, it might have been CC.

CC the first laser, then do something, that should work.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In what situations can you induce an invisible ceiling with Marth's counter?

I hardly ever see invisible ceilings happen, but when they do occur, it is almost always because of Marth's counter. I thought it might be reproduce able with various characters moves and applied that way.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i think it's when marth is at super high %
or when his opponent is at super high %, i don't remember

 

[MasterShake]

Isn't there a video that details why that happens.

Unless I'm talking about something else.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Dear Marths, late fair to dsmash is awesome. That is all.

 

[Dart!]

more randoms saying dsmash is amazing. LOL

Spoiler

secretly, i think so as well

upsmash is where it's at boys. i will prove it.

 

[Winston]

Dear Marths, late fair to dsmash is awesome. That is all.

awesome as in it's hilarious when it works?

Or do you actually recommend it?

I can't picture late fair setting up for a tipped dsmash very consistently, and nontipped dsmash doest seem like a good reward. Is there a specific situation you use it for?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

awesome as in it's hilarious when it works?

Or do you actually recommend it?

I can't picture late fair setting up for a tipped dsmash very consistently, and nontipped dsmash doest seem like a good reward. Is there a specific situation you use it for?

Everything is awesome when it works!!!! And no, I can't really recommend something that has almost no possibility of follow up and is way too punishable, but hella funny to do.

Also, yes Dart, usmash is awesome. And I don't think I'm random just because you don't know who I am.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-smash is funny in that sometimes when they try to shield grab it you duck under their grab range.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i like using non-tipped d-smash at high percentages to punish grab attempts when people think they have a chance to grab me

think of how peach/sheik use their d-smashes

omg wtf smashboards
you can't ninja edit anymore

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

usmash is secretly really good in the peach and samus matchups

and dsmash is godlike vs. falcon and puff

they have limited use vs anyone else tho..

 

[the_CAM_factor]

d-smash is just a really super cool move and can be decent to sometimes knock away a char if they dont expect it

 

[Dart!]

usmash is secretly really good in the peach and samus matchups

and dsmash is godlike vs. falcon and puff

they have limited use vs anyone else tho..

tipper dsmash on puff kills her sooner than tipper fsmash.
reason being, DI is harder on the Dsmash than the fsmash

 

[Tee ay eye]

tipper d-smash kills only slightly later than fox's u-smash

 

[Dart!]

Everything is awesome when it works!!!! And no, I can't really recommend something that has almost no possibility of follow up and is way too punishable, but hella funny to do.

Also, yes Dart, usmash is awesome. And I don't think I'm random just because you don't know who I am.

fair enough

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Doesn't tipper dsmash as much knockback if not more than tipper fsmash?

Oh yeah, maybe it wasn't shield, it might have been CC.

CC the first laser, then do something, that should work.

What? I thought you couldn't CC Falco lasers and meteor/spiking DAIRs?

 

[Winston]

Nope, you can cc both things.

CC does two things - it reduces knockback, and halves the hitstun. Note this is true CC, meaning you have to be in the crouch animation, rather than holding down during some other animation.

Lasers have really low stun to below with so it's hard to notice, but it's definitely there. It halves the hitstun. For example, Fox can cc a laser and usmash the aerial approach that follows it.

It usually doesn't matter with Falco dair since it has a lot of stun while keeping you grounded at low percents, so he can usually follow up with shine regardless, but there's that unknown's fox compilation video thing where he shows how you can cc -> shine falco's dair at 0.

You can also CC fox's shine so that it doesn't combo into waveshine -> stuff, oddy enough. That almost never happens though since people almost never get shined while regular crouching

 

[AceDudeyeah]

huh, I always thought it had no effect because Falco's lasers/dair makes characters stand up and flinch if they were crouching.
New thing to try!

 

[Winston]

I think the best you can get out of CCing a dair from Falco as Marth is shield so the shine doesn't combo. So not too great. Here's the video I was talking about btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NKL4k_1EcA#t=1m58s

As for ccing laser, I think I've heard before that CC laser -> fsmash is sometimes viable? Never used it myself though.

 

[Niko45]

You can also CC fox's shine so that it doesn't combo into waveshine -> stuff, oddy enough. That almost never happens though since people almost never get shined while regular crouching

Really? I thought you can't halve hitstun on shine, you can only influence the distance you are shined shorter or longer.

 

[Winston]

Yea it does work. Just tested it, you can buffer a roll to escape from Fox's waveshine -> grab if you crouched the shine.

It just never happens in games since you have to be in the true crouch, and fox's shine usually hits you after drill or punishing your lag.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Winston dropping knowledge. I don't know how I'd ever use that but thats really cool.

 

[sulliman1]

the non tipped 2nd hit of dsmash behind marth can launch into some jank on ffers situationally

efficient? no. flashy? yes. possibly useful if opponent was expecting to CCC a weaker attack since dsmash comes out pretty fast

 

[Teczer0]

Yea it does work. Just tested it, you can buffer a roll to escape from Fox's waveshine -> grab if you crouched the shine.

It just never happens in games since you have to be in the true crouch, and fox's shine usually hits you after drill or punishing your lag.

Hahah, I think I can actually use this =3

Thanks lol

 

[Archangel]

does cactaur still answer this?

 

[Tekk]

No, cactaur doesn't anymore.
Cactuar is the one in charge now.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. Conveniently enough, I namesearch cactuar, cactaur, and cactus.

 

[_eternal]

I always pronounce it cactaur

 

[DuckPimp]

i used to. then i actually read his name









plus ff

 

[JPOBS]

What should I try to do when edgeguarding fox at low percents? Specifically, after I jab his side-B and he is up B'ing just below the stage.

Sometimes I try to wavedash to the ledge, ledgehop dair but that doesn't work well cause i get hit by his firefox startup hitbox then i get bbq combo'd.

other times there seems to be a 50/50 mixup between him going straight up/angling into the stage and me going for dtilt(fsmash)/counter.

Any thoughts?

 

[Niko45]

You can get on the ledge really fast and try to reverse fair or side B him with invincibility. If you're on stages like battlefield or pokemon and he can only up B vertically you can just measure that dtilt/tipper and take it to the bank. Counter works most of the time too.

 

[Winston]

On Yoshi's/Battlefield/Stadium, go ahead and counter.

On the other stages get onto the edge and then drop down and side B him a bunch. You have a reasonably lenient window of time to do so. Once he's low enough you can go for Up Bs to finish, and if doesn't kill him outright (i.e. he teched it) you should be in a position either to repeat, or he'll be low enough so that he has to go straight up and you can edgehog/ledgehop dair.

Especially effective on Dreamland, cause he'll go under the stage.

If you're gonna do a non counter onstage move, I'd recommend dtilt and neutral B before fsmash because they both hit lower/you can react better with them.

 

[the_CAM_factor]

its not really all that flashy becuase it has so much lag and no follow up

 

[danieljosebatista]

I'm a new competetive marth player and I have a sort of noob-ish question. Does double short hop fair autocancel? I usually feel no difference between when I L-cancel or miss it