Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[MasterShake]

So lets talk about back throw a little bit. I think this move is kind of amazing. In what situations to people like to use it? At what % does it start to setup platform tech chases on fastfallers/floaties?

Lol I find it way more situational. The best I've done with it is use it at super low percents to get a missed tech to reset, and then use it at super high percents to either hopefully get an fsmash (fast fallers) or bait a double jump (non fast fallers). In the second case bthrow and bair work very well together imo.

 

[mers]

When does bthrow to fsmash become a possibility on fastfallers? I love that combo, especially when you're facing a ledge so they DI for the fthrow.

 

[Winston]

^ Really? it sounds terrible when you're facing the edge because the weak fsmash aint never gonna kill them going the other way if it's not on a tiny stage

 

[KirbyKaze]

M2K does B-throw > Side-B > stuff sometimes.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

i like combos that end in stuff...and stuff

wat

also, i like when m2k would grab s2js falcon(from g2) near the edge, then downthrow and s2j would di in, so m2k would regrab. i remember him doing that frequently

EDIT:

whoops i meant with sheik. i saw KK post and though this was the sheik thread. fail.

 

[Winston]

m2k played s2j as marth? when? friendlies? are they recorded?

 

[mers]

^ Really? it sounds terrible when you're facing the edge because the weak fsmash aint never gonna kill them going the other way if it's not on a tiny stage

I only ever remember to use it when they're at impossibly high percentages, so it ends up tippering anyways. My Marth is really grab-happy (IDK if you remember) and I'm bad at switching that up when they're at kill percents, so I end up with useless grabs too often. Bthrow lets me convert those mistakes into something useful.

 

[Niko45]

I'm not gonna lie I've bthrown twice accidentally in tourney recently and both times it turned out amazing. Set up a tech chase tipper on the YS platforms against cfalcon and lofted sheik above the edge then swiped her DJ with a bair. I have to actually use this move more consciously in the future. I'm not really sure about bthrow fsmash on spacies but I'm pretty sure they can DI out of that even at extreme percents.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Bthrow idea makes a lot of sense to me because you want the opponent above you but not with a ton of time to escape or think like upthrow can give sometimes.

Good idea Niko Ima play with that. =p

 

[Teczer0]

DI away on bthrow causes the player to be sent almost straight up.

Vs Spacies I think you can do bthrow dair at high percents for KOs, not completely sure on that one though.

It can set up potentially great tech chases if they DI away from you. I use it occasionally especially on sheik/peach. Bthrow bair steals a lot of jumps if the opponent doesn't expect it.

 

[MasterShake]

Yeah they have to miss the di on bthrow for the fsmash to work.

 

[FireFly]

South vs. Canada (Colbol vs. PKM Vodka) Genesis 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Pu8PwLhTA&feature=player_detailpage#t=390s

Grab at 189%, pummel a few times then back throw fsmash for the kill.

 

[WatchYourRadar]

Anyone have any good plans for getting around desynched blizzards vs. ICs? I just... get frustrated

 

[makoforce]

hey guy can we discuss marths dash attack? it seems like a really interesting move

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

?? havent all marths been using bthrow for like the longest time?

 

[Dart!]

So lets talk about back throw a little bit. I think this move is kind of amazing. In what situations to people like to use it? At what % does it start to setup platform tech chases on fastfallers/floaties?

falcon 65+ (slightly DI dependent)
Peach 50+ (DI dependent)
Fox and Falco 95-110 respectively (DI dependent)

Back throw is AMAZING on BF and yoshis. my ****ing god.

 

[MasterShake]

?? havent all marths been using bthrow for like the longest time?

Hell no sucka sall about that uthrow dawg.

Marth's dash attack is very important to pull of the almighty TGM combo.

 

[ChivalRuse]

B-throw is mindgames.

 

[Shellbullet34]

What's the best tactic to use against a Speed Loving Captain Falcon who loves spamming falcon kicks with an aggressive playstyle?

 

[crush]

What's the best tactic to use against a Speed Loving Captain Falcon who loves spamming falcon kicks with an aggressive playstyle?

Make fun of him because he falcon kicks until he quits smash. Or just wd back grab throw him off the edge d tilt/fsmash till he's dead.

 

[Tee ay eye]

shield -> shffl dair out of shield
counter
jump over the falcon kick and come down with an aerial
move in and out of falcon kick's maximum range and just retreat a little and grab them when they do it
nair
late fair

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm always a fan of spamming attacks as fast as possible.

 

[Winston]

shield -> shffl dair out of shield
counter
jump over the falcon kick and come down with an aerial
move in and out of falcon kick's maximum range and just retreat a little and grab them when they do it
nair
late fair

shield -> wd oos grab works quite well also; falcon kick has a lot of lag

 

[Dart!]

spotdodge forward smash

 

[!!!RM!!!]

shield-->JC Usmash-->Fsmash

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You need to make avoiding that falcon kick and punish as flashy as possible.
moonwalk -> air dodge behind falcon -> moonwalk -> FH Bair -> Fair -> Tipper Fsmash
^ Warning: Percentage & DI dependent.

 

[mers]

New thought: how far do spacies fall before they can act from a grab release? Grab releases don't give jumps back, so instead of jabbing phantasm/illusion I wanna try grabbing it. I assume it forces them below stage level, which should be a fairly easy KO.

Seems especially good against spacy players that have learned to DI/SDI the jab so they can grab ledge afterward, either through another side-B or an up-B instant grab.

 

[Winston]

Can't you just keep jabbing them?

Or like, do an ftilt the second time?

 

[mers]

Ftilt will definitely let them stay above the ledge. Repeated jabbing works sometimes, but Fox can definitely get under it.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

New thought: how far do spacies fall before they can act from a grab release? Grab releases don't give jumps back, so instead of jabbing phantasm/illusion I wanna try grabbing it. I assume it forces them below stage level, which should be a fairly easy KO.

Seems especially good against spacy players that have learned to DI/SDI the jab so they can grab ledge afterward, either through another side-B or an up-B instant grab.

if they di towards the ledge cant you just dtilt them?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, if you are assuming people can SDI/DI with regularity, then you might as well expect people will understand the grab release mechanics as well. You have to be right over the edge to ever force an air release on spacies or else they can just get released on the ground and with enough room not go offstage.

Anyway, it'll be harder to time grabs. It's only out for 2 frames starting at frame 8. Jab hits for 4 whole frames and starts 5 frames sooner.
If any spacie gets to the ledge after the jab, just expect it the next time.

 

[makoforce]

how do you stop fox/falco's phantasm when they are recovering?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

how do you stop fox/falco's phantasm when they are recovering?

A non charged neutral b or a jab are the most common ways. Depending on the location of course you can dtilt as well, which is another wonderful way to stop it.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

On reaction, I think it's hard to punish it with a neutral B because of startup (correct me if I'm wrong). Jab is a good option. If the end of the phantasm will be near you, you can downB and the counter will hit them. Otherwise they'll just go past you without dealing any damage (invincibility from counter) unless they shorten the phantasm. Dtilt is a good choice if they try to get to the ledge.

 

[Palpi]

Also, if you know he is going to do it into you, but don't feel like you have enough time to hit it, you can shield then WD OoS and grab or smash etc

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falcon kick has so much lag. Why would you talk about how to punish that? Even Fox's up-b (angled such that he goes straight through you) can be punished with wavedash oos -> grab if your execution is on point. Lol.

 

[SSBMLahti]

Cactuar...why are you so bad at this game?

 

[Cactuar]

Lol.

**

 

[ChivalRuse]

Cheerleader troll is the best smiley.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Marth trolls me. The color I want to be is the one I suck with and the color I don't want to be is the one I'm awesome with.