Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[JBM falcon08]

I don't know how good Darkrain is vs Marth, no disrespect meant (he's my favorite Falcon, if not, tied with Hax). He lost to TAJ at FCD, and TAJ hates the MU (although the MU was probably really different back then). He lost to Strawhat, and when I was playing him at Pound, though he probably wasn't trying too hard, I didn't feel the extreme homo that I feel when I play against Hax or GG7

Well i guess i've just never played a falcon that placed his nairs so good that it caught me off guard. I was having trouble adapting to his approach. Also everytime i would shield he'd cross me up and pressure my shield with jabs and mix it up with grabs. Its Darkrain obviously so he finished well with every grab late percents.

 

[Cactuar]

This is what Cactus is talking about

dem DJ fairs on the edge of that triangle. Cactus plays this matchup so much differently than everyone else. I really like his innovative style. <3

Heyyyy nice. I do that thing where I barely jump up onto the edge of the stage a lot in that set too. Super effective!

 

[Strong Badam]

Why did you switch to white Marth?

 

[Cactuar]

Primarily because my Marth isn't nearly as good as it used to be and I'd like to keep my green Marth reserved until I'm back in practice with him.

Secondary reason: as a shoutout to dobs, the alcoholic extraordinaire.

 

[Strong Badam]

reminds me of the story of IHSB using Green samus.

 

[Dart!]

Jack used to use white samus?

 

[Niko45]

I don't know how good Darkrain is vs Marth, no disrespect meant (he's my favorite Falcon, if not, tied with Hax). He lost to TAJ at FCD, and TAJ hates the MU (although the MU was probably really different back then). He lost to Strawhat, and when I was playing him at Pound, though he probably wasn't trying too hard, I didn't feel the extreme homo that I feel when I play against Hax or GG7

Yea I agree, though I've only played Hax out of top Falcons, I think there's pretty decent evidence out there that Darkrain is relatively bad against Marth.

 

[ArcNatural]

Marth's sideb hits needles? That's weird, it doesn't stop most other projectiles iirc...

Yeah, it allows you to save fair for dbj fair if you have to I guess. But it looks pretty sweet because of the move slowdown.

 

[JBM falcon08]

The only reason you can say Darkrain isn't as good as SS or Hax vs marth is because he actually commits and approaches.

So what should i do when im being outplayed by aggressive play vs falcon?

 

[Strong Badam]

Jack used to use white samus?

some day you should ask him about the legend of the Black Samus

 

[Niko45]

The only reason you can say Darkrain isn't as good as SS or Hax vs marth is because he actually commits and approaches.

So what should i do when im being outplayed by aggressive play vs falcon?

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. SS approaches plenty and Hax's campiness is overblown imo. It's more that they choose better spots to approach, avoid gimps better, even punish harder in some cases (anyone seen Hax vs Strawhat? Ridiculous...). Basically they're just better overall at the MU imo.

But against aggressive CF have you tried just keeping your distance and DD grabbing/react retreat fairing his approach? How about just...shielding. Most CFs aren't just running up and blatantly grabbing. If you run at CF with shield you can **** him pretty hard. CC grab through the jabs on your shield after he aerials. CC grab any nair approach ever.

 

[JBM falcon08]

I actually try to commit in the matchup rather than play grounded campy the whole match.

When i play falcon or really anyone my idea with marth is to keep them out of my space, mainly playing that game and mix up grabs instead of swiping my sword nonstop.

Next time i get to play a good falcon i'll keep that in mind.

 

[Niko45]

Yea you can definitely go aggro on aggro falcon. It's only campier CFs where I feel like you need to be more calculated. Overshoot dtilts/nairs on him. Make sure to get that quick sidestep/dash away if you aerial his shield and just be on point with your shield game cause you can punish most of his attacks on your shield.

 

[Jun.]

Yeah I would also argue that falcon needs to be pressured and not camped. His dash is way too fast and tricky which makes it almost impossible to accurately react to his approach whether it be a nair or a dash in-grab. Even throwing out a random fair/nair will get you grabbed which is way too dangerous.

If Marth controls the center stage though and scares Falcon to DD to the end of the stage, the risk is much higher on him and you'll find that most falcons will feel uncomfortable and then procede to come at you with a nair to try and regain control of the main stage. Marth can also stop him getting to the center on platforms since our sword can create somewhat of a wall.

I think Marth is just stage control. Since ultimately Marth's main goal is to get the opponent offstage (moreso than other characters)

 

[AceDudeyeah]

When sheik jumps, the range that is covered by her needles at any point when she is in the air. It makes a triangle. Do I need to like... draw this out or something?


Anyway, after establishing the triangle, basically what you do is pressure into it to a point where, after she lands, she would almost be able to reach you with a dash attack. This creates a rock paper scissors game where, if she jumps again, you can jump forward and hit her, or if she goes for a dash attack/grab, you can hit her. This is the safest pressure area I have found vs Sheik.


Additionally, if she goes too high and the area of the triangle is increased to a large amount, you can run through the limit of the triangle and position yourself underneath Sheik.

Do you mean standing inside the triangle so that when needles hit, if she tries to follow it up she has nothing solid?

 

[MT_]

Just noticed the reply haha, thanks for elaborating!

 

[MasterShake]

What's the opinion on Marth's dsmash around here? Situations? Vs which characters?

I've been playing against a Falco and tried it out in all sorts of scenarios. The safest one I've figured out is fthrowing or dthrowing near the ledge and then charging a dsmash (spaced for the tech of course). I feel like it covers all options. If they tech in place/roll towards ledge/not tech, it's a tipped dsmash. If they roll in, they either get hit by the part that sends them at a low trajectory or if they manage to get behind me it sends them up with stun (a good amount too). Of course there's limited follow up to that part but I don't think there's anything they can do initially.

What say you Marth players? I'll try to record some videos so someone can see if me/my opponent is doing something wrong/avoidable.

 

[Winston]

I think Dsmash is a pretty reasonable tool to react to techs with by the edge. However, in the situation you described, wouldn't you rather Dtilt? if it hits, then it's very likely you can gimp them. A tipped Dsmash might send them too high and let them recover safely.

Sometimes I CC dsmash when I'm not prepared to CC grab, and techchase off it. But that's probably just because I'm not good at CC grabbing yet.

I think sometimes you can CC dsmash a spaced Falcon nair that you can't CC grab but I'm not sure.

 

[MasterShake]

However, in the situation you described, wouldn't you rather Dtilt?

Depends on the percent...low I would rather dsmash, mid I would dtilt, and killing range dsmash of course.

if it hits, then it's very likely you can gimp them.

mmm yes lol.

A tipped Dsmash might send them too high and let them recover safely.

Strangely I feel a lot less threatened/outsmarted by a space animal in the air then a space animal around the ledge...I guess this means I should dtilt more in my next smashing session and see what options I have.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

A downsmash has about as much range as an fsmash but still has the same killing power tippered. Comes out helluva a lot quicker too. I sometimes use it out of dash or when the fsmash isn't quick enough.

 

[Strong Badam]

dsmash same killing power of fsmash tippered......? what

 

[makoforce]

where do you think marth is gonna go next tier list?

 

[Beat!]

Kinda hard to say seeing as the current one is only a few months old

Hopefully someone puts him back on top of the metagame

Like me

:D

 

[makoforce]

maybe.
cause mew2king is...... something

 

[Jun.]

Marth should more or less be tied with Peach imo. Both from tourney results and matchups. Maybe Marth is a tad better cause he wins the matchup slightly.

 

[Beat!]

Marth does better vs Fox
They do equally good against Falco
Marth does better against Puff (I think?)
Marth does better against Falcon
Peach does better vs Sheik (I think?)
Marth wins the matchup against Peach.

I'd say Marth is better.

 

[Jun.]

yeah that's true

but I think Peach might do a bit better vs Falco. Peach can at least counter camp and has that downsmash to cover wrong crouch cancels which space animals are prone to doing.

Peach also has the option to take Falcon to Brinstar which is the bane of all fast fallers.

Still think Marth is better but only slightly

 

[JBM falcon08]

I disagree about Marth vs Falcon. Not that Marth is bad vs Falcon but Peach is pretty good with chain grabs. She also has good stage cps against falcon compared to marth having his neutrals.

 

[Tee ay eye]

dsmash same killing power of fsmash tippered......? what

Marth's d-smash tipper is slightly weaker than Fox's u-smash

and it sometimes has ******** horizontal knockback, but not as much as f-smash

 

[Nø Ca$h]

marth vs sheik is even

 

[Naicigamiz]

When I play Marth, I am completely unorthodox. It's hard for me to control him and make him go where I want. What do you think I should focus on?

 

[KirbyKaze]

marth vs sheik is even

i respectfully disagree

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

When I play Marth, I am completely unorthodox. It's hard for me to control him and make him go where I want. What do you think I should focus on?

Didn't you just answer your own question?

Tech skill.

 

[Juno McGrath]

marth vs sheik is even

 

[Dart!]

Marth does better vs Fox
They do equally good against Falco
Marth does better against Puff (I think?)
Marth does better against Falcon
Peach does better vs Sheik (I think?)
Marth wins the matchup against Peach.

I'd say Marth is better.

Vs fox yes
vs falco marth can handle falcos camp game better imo, he can control falco better with his sword.
Vs puff yes
vs falcon of ****ing course
peach does waaay better vs sheik than marth does vs falco imo
marth doesnt have a godsend advantage vs peach anymore.

This is strictly how i feel.

 

[Dobs1007]

Primarily because my Marth isn't nearly as good as it used to be and I'd like to keep my green Marth reserved until I'm back in practice with him.

Secondary reason: as a shoutout to dobs, the alcoholic extraordinaire.

Word I should be the main reason though hangout in Philly or my area again soon

 

[Tee ay eye]

marth and sheik is a more interesting comparison than marth and peach

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I've that said about dsmash from dark sonic or someone.

 

[AlcyoNite]

hey remember that time when cactuar came into our room at p5 with mango?

i remember that time

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Vs fox yes
vs falco marth can handle falcos camp game better imo, he can control falco better with his sword.
Vs puff yes
vs falcon of ****ing course
peach does waaay better vs sheik than marth does vs falco imo
marth doesnt have a godsend advantage vs peach anymore.

This is strictly how i feel.

what he said