Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[linkoninja]

Thinking about it.

I'm still thinking about it.

 

[Van.]

What do you guys think about retreating nair and retreating SHDFair? In which scenarios are they surperior to each other, and is one generally better than he other?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think its more match-up dependent. Tall characters get ***** by AC nair, but short characters or characters with range can [sometimes] punish it. Retreating rising fair can be good, but punished by many characters. Good falcon players will nair/knee/uair/whatever you after the first swing, before the 2nd comes out. Ganon can CC dash uair (falcon can probably do that too actually lol). Fox and falco can CC -> **** it too, as well as see the first one and run in and ****.


In general, late fair is your best bet. Stand grounded, chaps.

 

[edgeluca]

I was told retreating nair ***** Ganon, but I don't think so...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its quite good, but nair is semi-**** in that match-up.

 

[MacD]

sup marths

how good is my marth???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9WwjSvZQo#t=2m20s

i'm going to say pretty good

Spoiler

i'm probably lying by saying that though LOOOOL

 

[Juno McGrath]

NOT EVEN GOOD.

suhl

 

[A2ZOMG]

I really wonder, why don't Marth players use more U-smash?

Yes it's a really situational move, and many times U-tilt is better, but it's actually not that bad and it has niche utility.

U-smash is an option out of shield, and it can be used to hit people behind Marth. Can be more or less preferable to B-air depending on the situation.

The other thing that's actually pretty nice about U-smash isn't hitting people with the sword. The Side hitboxes are pretty good for starting combos, sometimes better than U-tilt.

If you're REALLY on point, juggling people with U-smash also is not a bad option, and it's worth remembering that you can U-smash while dashing. U-smash is an option to reach through the platforms on DL64 from the ground as well.

Granted, it's in many ways less practical than U-tilt, but the potential reward for landing it, and occasionally the option of doing it out of shield make it a move that I think actually should be used here and there. It's worth noting that it's the least laggy of his Smashes as well.

Now the only Marth Smash that really upsets me is D-smash. I mean...seriously, that move is just lame in how terrible it is. It enrages me when I get hit by that move.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Cosmo would use all of zelda's options just because zelda has such bad options in general that you can't really get much worse.

Using marth's usmash is like lowering yourself to zelda. If zelda had marth's usmash cosmo would use it, but it is sub-par compared to your other options especially WD.

 

[Van.]

I hesitate to use late fair retreating, because I'm in the air so long, but if its the best option I'll give it a go.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Marth's dsmash is waaayy better than Marth's usmash imo

 

[ArcNatural]

Upthrow Fulljump(or quick dbj) tipper upair land on platform to upsmash or JC upsmash if they DI tipper is da best combo.

 

[mers]

Dsmash kills really well when you tip it, and it comes out really fast. Training yourself to notice when you're at the right range for a dsmash tipper is well worth it.

 

[Winston]

Marth's dsmash is waaayy better than Marth's usmash imo

Agreed. Besides the ultra **** tipper dsmash kills that Mango popularized, there's also some random techchase situations near the edge where they land really close to you and you can react and hit them with hilt dsmash. It sends them at an awkward near-horizontal trajectory, so it can set up for gimps nicely.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-smash is just overall good with any character for covering multiple tech options, assuming it's not Falco's/Fox's d-smash.

And Marth's up-smash is pretty horrible.

Except when Dart killed Peepee with it in seriouslies. That was pretty lulz.

 

[makoforce]

fthrow Dsmash ***** floties and sheik

SN: Cactuar whats up with ya boy m2k. Usually watching his marth play is majestic and charismatic, but at pound he just didnt really try like when he went against PeePee. If he goes to genesis can you please get him to try.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Besides the ultra **** tipper dsmash kills that Mango popularized

pshhh cosmo did that **** long before mango.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Nah he tried pp just raaaaaped him

 

[A2ZOMG]

Agreed. Besides the ultra **** tipper dsmash kills that Mango popularized, there's also some random techchase situations near the edge where they land really close to you and you can react and hit them with hilt dsmash. It sends them at an awkward near-horizontal trajectory, so it can set up for gimps nicely.

Usually the way I see people DIing Marth's throws, they don't usually tend to be in range for D-smash option limits. That's the way I feel about my experience playing against Marth players as well.

And Mango is Mango, and basically the only player I've seen who has even used D-smash remotely well. The problem with D-smash is that you can't follow up after it because it's laggy as ****. And not hitting with it is unaffordable.

U-smash can actually be implemented semi-safely outside of really really really gimmicky combos (seriously, who ever combos into D-smash besides Mango?). It has niche utility in juggles and platform pressure given the raw power of the tip hit as well as the ability to reliably reach through DL64's platforms (I think U-tilt does as well, but U-smash is more powerful). Furthermore landing the side hits can actually be really rewarding given it can often set up tipper F-smashes, and as I first said earlier, it's an option out of shield that covers both sides.

 

[edgeluca]

Mew2king did tipper dsmash kill on Pink Shinobi in Genesis crews... I guess that was accidentally?

 

[stopNstart]

u-tilt >>> u-smash

 

[Xianglian]

I could have sworn that this was a questions thread...anyway, I have questions, marth mains, please answer.

When is it the appropriate time to use a Nair and how can you combo someone with forward b.

 

[linkoninja]

Hey guys, so update on my tournament. I'm gonna be teaming with a Jiggs player. General strategies you guys use when teaming with Jiggs?

 

[Tee ay eye]

(seriously, who ever combos into D-smash besides Mango?)

I definitely use d-smash's tip intentionally
So does Jetfour
I bet Mew2king does sometimes

 

[Ndot]

Hey guys, so update on my tournament. I'm gonna be teaming with a Jiggs player. General strategies you guys use when teaming with Jiggs?

1) You grab opponent
2) Jiggs comes to rest
3) Triple Kill !
4) ????
5) Profit

^_^

 

[ArcNatural]

I'm curious if the properties of downsmash are like Fsmash in when it comes out if you are on that flat horizontal plane it's all tipper.

If that's true I would think that fthrow -> wavedash dsmash may be viable when they DI off edges.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Can you re-word that? I don't get what you mean.

Also, random note, the back tipper of Marth's d-smash is a little stronger than the front tipper.

 

[mers]

Can you re-word that? I don't get what you mean.

Also, random note, the back tipper of Marth's d-smash is a little stronger than the front tipper.

I think he wants to know which tipper smash hits sooner when the opponent is at stage level in front of you. Like, if you fthrow near the edge so they leave the stage, can you hit with fsmash or dsmash faster?

I'm pretty sure dsmash is faster, but fsmash has a longer range so it might balance out. Dunno.

Also, that back tipper thing is cool. My rest punishes are gonna get a whole lot more badass when I get the spacing down.

 

[ArcNatural]

Can you re-word that? I don't get what you mean.

Also, random note, the back tipper of Marth's d-smash is a little stronger than the front tipper.

Say if someone goes to upB sweetspot and you fsmash. Correct me if I'm wrong, But isn't the entire hitbox on the ground of the fsmash a tipper? I'm just curious if the dsmash has the same effect (ie if they go for a sweetspot and you dsmash, do you still need to tip it to get the tipper hitbox).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ArcNatural you're talking about how there is a "tip" hitbox on the edge of marth's fsmash when it stops moving, sorta how there is a "tip" hitbox on dair when it gets to the end, and maybe other moves too.


There *might* be a possibility of marth's sword having a property like that, where it has a full tip hitbox at the edge when it stops moving. Even if that were the case, i don't think dsmash would have one because of the way he swings the sword (its a thrust not a slash like fsmash and dair).

Not that the game really cares what style of attack the move looks like, since its all programming stuff, but it just seems unlikely in my head. Props to you if you find it tho

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Holy crap, I def see that property when the last frame of the move is nothing but tipper-capable.

I don't get what makes Marth's upsmash tipper or not.
Bc you don't have to hit 'em with the tip as you would with Marth's fsmash to get the tipper sound vs medium-strength sound.
>>

 

[Xianglian]

That's not fair, I was ignored

 

[Juno McGrath]

what did cactaur think of Shadowsword?

 

[Cactuar]

Haven't watched it yet.

I assume its freakin sweet though.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

To me, nair is used after a high-percent upthrow.
Most commonly done as my out of shield attack because it covers spot dodges/approaches.
I also ledgehop it right after grabbing the edge sometimes to make them up-b early into my nair.
The only time I SHFFL nair is when it's to get behind their shield or space it so that when I land in front of them, a reverse uptilt gets me out of their grab range.
Side-b, I use it in between dash dances bc it's an instant pivot in that direction. 1 side-b --> uptilt on floaties.

 

[Hellsinglover999]

I could have sworn that this was a questions thread...anyway, I have questions, marth mains, please answer.

When is it the appropriate time to use a Nair and how can you combo someone with forward b.

first hit of forward b then up tilt on high% floaties to kill

i also like to nair sometimes from the ledge but idk if its a good idea depends who ur against

 

[Xianglian]

To me, nair is used after a high-percent upthrow.
Most commonly done as my out of shield attack because it covers spot dodges/approaches.
I also ledgehop it right after grabbing the edge sometimes to make them up-b early into my nair.
The only time I SHFFL nair is when it's to get behind their shield or space it so that when I land in front of them, a reverse uptilt gets me out of their grab range.
Side-b, I use it in between dash dances bc it's an instant pivot in that direction. 1 side-b --> uptilt on floaties.

Thank you person who finally answered my question, this was helpful for me.

EDIT:

first hit of forward b then up tilt on high% floaties to kill

Thank you too.

 

[Dart!]

I definitely use d-smash's tip intentionally
So does Jetfour
I bet Mew2king does sometimes

i win sets with dsmash tippers.
i think marths should utilize these moves more. it could be the next step for marth in general.


as for nair, unless the character is less mobile than you...at high levels nair is mainly a protection/zoning move.
using it offensively will/more times than not get you punished and potentially killed. be wary.

 

[Jun.]

I realized something today

VS Falco is it better to shield or counter if they're in sword range. Obviously swinging anything is a loss cause lasers will stuff it, shielding is succumbing to their shield pressure, but countering seems to be the missing link.

You guys should try it.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm not a good Marth player by any means, Junk, but hasn't M2K been doing that for a reallllllllllllllllllllllllly long time?

Smooth Criminal