Marth vs Fox, a strong defense is the best defense >.>
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- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
I think vs fox cc grab is pretty good if you can sdi out of dairs or cc nairs at early percents or mispaced bairs.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
cc grab is always amazing
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
cc grab is why marth isnt a low tier.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
They won't get that you're being serious.
Just talk about Cactus milk or something and be shirtless. That's way more entertaining
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
question!
does marth have the option to be more aggro vs fox than sheik does vs fox?
does marth have the option to be more aggro vs fox than sheik does vs fox?
OverLord
Smash Ace
I don't think being aggro will get you anywhere far: Marth can just be defensive and **** hard vs most of the Foxy ladies out there, just keep the right distance and hold/cover position.
If you play aggro Fox can do some annoying stuff and just be patient to punish you.
As Cactus said, keep a good defense, and play mostly on reaction.
If you play aggro Fox can do some annoying stuff and just be patient to punish you.
As Cactus said, keep a good defense, and play mostly on reaction.
Dart!
Smash Master
Yea guys... Im thinking about quitting marth and picking up sheik. Marth has sooo many downfalls. Sorry guys
hahaha trolling
hahaha trolling
mers
Smash Ace
Marth's real slow from the edge. I guess you'd be invincible for the first little bit of any ledgehop aerial, but generally no, you don't get much useful invincibility.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Meh, I think we've said all that needs to be said on the nair topic. I think you need hitboxes out to prevent a Fox from ragng on your face, you guys think that dancing and prancing with em is better. I don't agree but whatevs.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
Hey guys I got some questions about Marth.
The first is which hitbox of Marth's D-Air do you need to spike/meteor smash? Is it when the animation barely begins or is ending?
Two: I'm having trouble finishing my food lol. I can combo decently, but am having trouble killing them. Often times my opponent lives till like 120 before I can get the kill.
What should I be doing more?
Also as far as edgeguarding goes what are my best options? I know Down Tilt is amazing against spacies, what else is there?
The first is which hitbox of Marth's D-Air do you need to spike/meteor smash? Is it when the animation barely begins or is ending?
Two: I'm having trouble finishing my food lol. I can combo decently, but am having trouble killing them. Often times my opponent lives till like 120 before I can get the kill.
What should I be doing more?
Also as far as edgeguarding goes what are my best options? I know Down Tilt is amazing against spacies, what else is there?
OverLord
Smash Ace
Marth's Dair spikes with the tip.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
and what part is that xD?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
...Really?
The tip of the sword. If you're looking at the hitboxes, it'll be the red bubble closest to the edge of his blade.
Fishing combos with Marth is basically figuring out where you can slot an F-smash, Up+B, or Dair to kill them when appropriate. Or pushing them offstage with Fairs or other stuff if you can't use one of those three, or if using one of those three is incorrect. Marth doesn't really kill instantly with his combos like Sheik and Fox... often he just does a ton of damage and then has to do an edgeguard.
For edgeguarding, just do the basics. If they're close enough for you to jump off and hit them, do so. Jab / D-tilt / F-air illusions, etc. What you're describing (D-throw D-tilt) is a gimp. Gimps are just simple setups that cover some recovery options and can kill at low percents. Edgeguarding is how you go about preventing recoveries. There is a difference.
The tip of the sword. If you're looking at the hitboxes, it'll be the red bubble closest to the edge of his blade.
Fishing combos with Marth is basically figuring out where you can slot an F-smash, Up+B, or Dair to kill them when appropriate. Or pushing them offstage with Fairs or other stuff if you can't use one of those three, or if using one of those three is incorrect. Marth doesn't really kill instantly with his combos like Sheik and Fox... often he just does a ton of damage and then has to do an edgeguard.
For edgeguarding, just do the basics. If they're close enough for you to jump off and hit them, do so. Jab / D-tilt / F-air illusions, etc. What you're describing (D-throw D-tilt) is a gimp. Gimps are just simple setups that cover some recovery options and can kill at low percents. Edgeguarding is how you go about preventing recoveries. There is a difference.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
I know there is a difference between edgeuarding and gimps, what I was implying is that Down Tilt is still really good to edgeguard with?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
nvm misread your post
yeah d-tilt *****
yeah d-tilt *****
OverLord
Smash Ace
yo guys, have you seen vidZ from MAD?
M2K ***** StrictNYNE pretty bad, cool to see..
I don't think we use enough Uairs..
M2K ***** StrictNYNE pretty bad, cool to see..
I don't think we use enough Uairs..
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Uair is cool.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Yeah...his Uairs were mean lol. I agree. I love how he also perfectly spaces and times the tipper Uair and lands on the top platform of YS for even more ****.
OverLord
Smash Ace
Claw finger-style, Ice taught me that **** last summer, too good, it changes your Uairs from situational to spammable
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
what do u mean??
Dre the Ace
Smash Ace
Marth vs. Ganon
Which direction do I DI his d-throw/u-throw?
Which direction is best to throw when I grab him?
Which direction do I DI his d-throw/u-throw?
Which direction is best to throw when I grab him?
Fortress | Sveet
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There is no correct direction to DI. He can hit you regardless of your DI. Be aware of his follow ups and choose one that is the lesser of the evils (for example, when you break 100% certain DIs can allow him to usmash you for an easy KO, which is worse for you than simply getting hit by a bair/uair).
I don't suggest throwing ganon up. Its possible to just keep him at a disadvantage, but its better to fthrow/dthrow him towards the nearest edge and then techchase/edgeguard from there.
I don't suggest throwing ganon up. Its possible to just keep him at a disadvantage, but its better to fthrow/dthrow him towards the nearest edge and then techchase/edgeguard from there.
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
If you get Ganon above you get in those Utilt/Uairs on him. If you DI his Dthrow away you don't really go anywhere....so you have to DI into him, but he can still turn around grab you...
IDK about Uthrow.
OverLord
Smash Ace
Jump with your index for Uairing.
Fortress | Sveet
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Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Ok......I lol'd so ****ing hard rolfmao.
Fortress | Sveet
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linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
So I can **** Spacies with Marth, but I have a lot of trouble with floaties. General advice? Obviously F-Smash is great against them, but as far as combos go I have trouble. And against Peach and Samus I can never edgeguard . Peach normally cause she's too high and Samus cause of her stupid bomb tricks.
. Peach normally cause she's too high and Samus cause of her stupid bomb tricks.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
That sounds tricky. I like to jump using my thumb, but that's just me.
OverLord
Smash Ace
Everyone jump with their thumb, me too, but Marths should start to jump with their index while Uaring.. It's old stuff, M2K does it since like, 2007? I don't know, ask him.
Ice taught me this last summer, it will change your way of playing.
Never asked yourself why Uairs seem so fast and flashy on M2K and Ice's vids..?
And I remember JMan jumping like this too at RoM 3.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjuGiixvQpY Look at 11:34, that's what I'm saying.
Ice taught me this last summer, it will change your way of playing.
Never asked yourself why Uairs seem so fast and flashy on M2K and Ice's vids..?
And I remember JMan jumping like this too at RoM 3.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjuGiixvQpY Look at 11:34, that's what I'm saying.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Never thought about doing that exclusively for uairs.
Might start integrating that into my ICs ...
Might start integrating that into my ICs ...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Wow Ice is so gay vs space animals.
Fortress | Sveet
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M2K's uairs aren't faster than mine, and i only use the jump button.
then again i can pivot usmash as well as m2k and jman, and i dont do the claw for y+cstick up.
In the end, do whatever you want to do to preform the action. There is no 1 set way or even one best way in most cases.
then again i can pivot usmash as well as m2k and jman, and i dont do the claw for y+cstick up.
In the end, do whatever you want to do to preform the action. There is no 1 set way or even one best way in most cases.
OverLord
Smash Ace
no no trust me Sveet, it seems that your Uairs are the same M2K does, but it's not so.. I used to think that way too, but when I saw Ice doing 'em in front of me, they were actually WAY faster, and they actually comes out before normal Uairs done jumping with thumb. Watch the video I posted of Ice, there's no way you can chain Uairs that fast and hitting with the tip at a so low height using thumb..
It's simple to try and see what I'm saying by yourself, fight a CPU and try hit a Falco standing in front of you with a shorthop rising Uair. It's impossible to hit him with the tip if you're not doing claw style.
Obviously no one HAS to do Uairs this way. It just permits you to do some stuff that is not possible otherwise. I don't think Mango uses index for jumping, but his Marth is still good, so...
It's simple to try and see what I'm saying by yourself, fight a CPU and try hit a Falco standing in front of you with a shorthop rising Uair. It's impossible to hit him with the tip if you're not doing claw style.
Obviously no one HAS to do Uairs this way. It just permits you to do some stuff that is not possible otherwise. I don't think Mango uses index for jumping, but his Marth is still good, so...
Fortress | Sveet
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Overlord, i watched that video before i posted. Its not something you can't do without clawing. In fact, Ice was delaying some of his uairs on purpose.
I've been doing sh double fair with Y and cstick since 2006, its really not difficult for me to get frame perfect aerials in that fashion.
Do you also suggest we claw when doing shine -> immediate dair pressure with falco? or how about bair/shine pressure with fox? I use Y and Cstick for all of that and my execution of such is the same as any top level player, most of which i am sure do not claw.
Once again i say:
I've been doing sh double fair with Y and cstick since 2006, its really not difficult for me to get frame perfect aerials in that fashion.
Do you also suggest we claw when doing shine -> immediate dair pressure with falco? or how about bair/shine pressure with fox? I use Y and Cstick for all of that and my execution of such is the same as any top level player, most of which i am sure do not claw.
Once again i say:
mers
Smash Ace
It's definitely possible. I can JC usmash with X and cstick-up. Not too consistently, but since instant uairs are the exact same input but slightly slower, I can definitely do them.
And I'm bad.
And I'm bad.
OverLord
Smash Ace
Sveet, I do all those things you said with C-sticking and jumping with the thumb too.. there's no need to learn to claw everytime with every character, because it doesn't allow you to do nothing more than you could do with thumb.
But with Marth's Uair is pretty different. As I said, clawing can actually allow you to do things you couldn't do in other ways.
You can say that you don't think to need more than you can do now, that's ok, but it's just plain truth that clawing permits you to do Uairs way faster, 'cause they simply come out instantaneously.
If you see the video, the first Uair is delayed on purpose, the second and the third are not delayed and done with claw, and you can clearly see how fast and lower they are compared to Uairs done normally.
An Uair done clawing does not hit on top of YS, I challenge you to do a rising Uair that does not hit on top platform of YS without clawing. If you can do it, then you got the fastest finger ever, or maybe you just got two thumbs! You can also try to hit a Falco standing on ground without clawing. I don't think it's possible. You have to be very fast, don't think anyone is this fast.
(you can do Uairs like clawing jumping with the stick too, but you can't control the momentum on the air as good as jumping with X/Y)
But with Marth's Uair is pretty different. As I said, clawing can actually allow you to do things you couldn't do in other ways.
You can say that you don't think to need more than you can do now, that's ok, but it's just plain truth that clawing permits you to do Uairs way faster, 'cause they simply come out instantaneously.
If you see the video, the first Uair is delayed on purpose, the second and the third are not delayed and done with claw, and you can clearly see how fast and lower they are compared to Uairs done normally.
An Uair done clawing does not hit on top of YS, I challenge you to do a rising Uair that does not hit on top platform of YS without clawing. If you can do it, then you got the fastest finger ever, or maybe you just got two thumbs! You can also try to hit a Falco standing on ground without clawing. I don't think it's possible. You have to be very fast, don't think anyone is this fast.
(you can do Uairs like clawing jumping with the stick too, but you can't control the momentum on the air as good as jumping with X/Y)
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
@Overlord you mean to hit Y with pointer finger and C-stick upwards with thumb?