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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Kanelol
Smash Lord
my friend reverse up-b'd me out of my falco up-b
like, i was in that invincible super fast fireball phase too
i was like ***** WHAT
in unrelated news, Colette's hot
like, i was in that invincible super fast fireball phase too
i was like ***** WHAT
in unrelated news, Colette's hot
OverLord
Smash Ace
^ there's no "invincible super fast fireball phase" in Falco's up-b LOL
Jun.
Smash Lord
I was about to say that just didn't wanna sound edgy
yeah if he has invincible frames in his up-b..... we'd all play falco
yeah if he has invincible frames in his up-b..... we'd all play falco
OverLord
Smash Ace
Don't worry about being edgy/whateva, Truth is naked.
makoforce
Smash Ace
can we discuss the fox MU? it so nostalgic to discuss it.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Okay: react with low aerials to him running at you. React with dash dancing to him jumping at you.
Good start, yes?
Good start, yes?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Marth's Nair is a terrible way of approaching Fox.
You now know 2x more about Fox than you did before. Because you dumb dumbs ALL DO THE STUPID NAIR APPROACH and it SUCKS and Fox can DASH DANCE / NAIR / WHATEVER **** it but you guys DO IT ANYWAYS even though it LAGS YOU GUYS THE **** UP AND DOESN'T COVER GROUND AS WELL AS YOUR OTHER STUFF WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THIS GUY'S STRENGTHS
You now know 2x more about Fox than you did before. Because you dumb dumbs ALL DO THE STUPID NAIR APPROACH and it SUCKS and Fox can DASH DANCE / NAIR / WHATEVER **** it but you guys DO IT ANYWAYS even though it LAGS YOU GUYS THE **** UP AND DOESN'T COVER GROUND AS WELL AS YOUR OTHER STUFF WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THIS GUY'S STRENGTHS
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
SH delayed fair ***** though.
SH retreating nair is okay for beating Fox's jump ins.
SH retreating nair is okay for beating Fox's jump ins.
Fortress | Sveet
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Nair is actually a bad move vs fox in general, though it has some uses. For one, fox can just running shine under your nair for most of the animation. I actually like using nair when fox is directly above on platforms. You can aim your back hit to cover platform options while using the front hit to cover run off options. I do this cause its at times safer than shffl uair since it doesn't have the same CC weakness.
You can also place your nair hitbox in fox's range if he is on the opposite platform, but good fox players wont jump into it.
In general, if fox is on the ground you should be on the ground.
You can also place your nair hitbox in fox's range if he is on the opposite platform, but good fox players wont jump into it.
In general, if fox is on the ground you should be on the ground.
Jun.
Smash Lord
agreed with sveet
one of the rare times
one of the rare times
Fortress | Sveet
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i say smart things once in a while... maybe
OverLord
Smash Ace
Sveet is always right.
But I have to say that retreating Nair is good against a happy jumpy Fox approaching.
But I have to say that retreating Nair is good against a happy jumpy Fox approaching.
Fortress | Sveet
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Aww u make me blush.
I might add that quote to my list, the first of which is (i think GOD!) saying "Sveet is the only person here making logical arguments" or something like that
I might add that quote to my list, the first of which is (i think GOD!) saying "Sveet is the only person here making logical arguments" or something like that
OverLord
Smash Ace
My signature is there for a reason man!
Fortress | Sveet
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< 3
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Running up and grabbing Fox (as he's dashing toward you, trying to overshoot a nair or dash attack) is hilarious.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It's even better if you just stand there and do it.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
I agree that nair is a terrible approach against fox. I disagree that nair is a bad move against Fox.
Nair is your primary way of protecting your dashdance. Pivot nair is fundamental in the matchup.
Nair is your primary way of protecting your dashdance. Pivot nair is fundamental in the matchup.
Fortress | Sveet
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running shine beats both dash dance and shffac nair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i think dash dance if your primary method of protecting your dash dance
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
omg shieldbash is viewing this thread
he should totally drop some knowledge
he should totally drop some knowledge
mers
Smash Ace
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
shieldbash is the best player in the world (hes pretty good)
i wish people knew how good he is
i wish people knew how good he is
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
KK if they see you dash away everytime they are just gonna overshoot. yea you can adjust back too but having nair to protect your dashdance gives you another option for them to account for. its legit..
what? it doesn't beat nair. you nair them in the face before they even get close to you. unless you are doing nair way later than you should be...and running shine only beats dashdance if they actually hit you with it lol.
Aber
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2010
- Messages
- 276
idk if u still check this cactuar but 2 sort of stupid simple questions
.1. What should I do if a player is holding their shield on a platform above me?
2. What should I do if an opponent jumps out of my u throw?
btw I doubt u remember but I played with you for a while at no johns.....Me and a kid with long hair were alternating getting ****ed up lol....Anyways if you can answer thanks
.1. What should I do if a player is holding their shield on a platform above me?
2. What should I do if an opponent jumps out of my u throw?
btw I doubt u remember but I played with you for a while at no johns.....Me and a kid with long hair were alternating getting ****ed up lol....Anyways if you can answer thanks
Jun.
Smash Lord
not cactuar but.
1.1: Jump on platform waveland down real fast and grab them. Marth is pretty fast and they have shield lag to worry about
1.2: Tilt their shield anyway since its safe and might poke their exposed feet.
2.1: They used their jump and now are vulnerable to aerial attacks. The only thing they can do is float/DI towards a place = easy punish.
amirite?
1.1: Jump on platform waveland down real fast and grab them. Marth is pretty fast and they have shield lag to worry about
1.2: Tilt their shield anyway since its safe and might poke their exposed feet.
2.1: They used their jump and now are vulnerable to aerial attacks. The only thing they can do is float/DI towards a place = easy punish.
amirite?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If they are going to overshoot wouldn't it be better to just grab them then?
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Sure. Sometimes. But if thats all you do, they are just going to undershoot. I don't know why you'd play rock-paper-scissors when you have another viable mix-up...
Come on guys. Nair works. Pretty basic.
Fortress | Sveet
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Kanelol
Smash Lord
if you do waveland --> grab, MAKE SURE YOU'RE BEHIND THEM
getting shield grabbed coming up through a platform is the most irritating thing ever
I've always wanted to actually play a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock...
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Reading into when players go to overshoot against Marth and when your DDing (one of the easiest ways to tell is when they dash beyond the initial dash animation). Immediately turning around and grabbing them (turn around grab, jc grab, pivot grab, w/e just grab in their direction). Will usually net you a grab. If you ASDI down during the grab animation and they go for a shffl approach, you can often immediately grab them after that as well since as long as you turned around to grab them your spacing should be somewhat around the peak of their shffl jump. Making it easy to land a grab. You can sometimes even grab them out of aerials this way.
Fortress | Sveet
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Just saw this now. Fox's running shine gets below marth's shffac nair until after marth can fast fall on frame 20.
i agree with KK, marth's dash dance covers marth's dash dance.
makoforce
Smash Ace
if you guys mean overshoot like go above you, is it possible to dash under him and end up behind him.
Fortress | Sveet
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no they mean when fox expects you to dash away (since you are dash dancing) and attempts to hit where you are going instead of just nairing at the front of your dash dance and getting grabbed
makoforce
Smash Ace
so like reading the DD basically?
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Well yeah. And fox's shine gets under Marth's late fair until after he fastfalls too. But why are you doing a nair if he is close enough to run under you like that. You're supposed to space it...and besides, you are doing a pivot nair for a reason; he has to aim and know where you are to actually hit you.
Marths dashdance covers marths dashdance. Sure. But so does pivot nair. Its like 2 options and stuff...
Woah...marths a pretty good character.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
This part, the emphasis on Pivot Nair as a tool of immense importance, is what I mainly disagreed with. Nair doesn't cover distance as effectively as Fair, and Nair leaves him with fewer options going into the move because of its duration (unless you're willing to lag like hell).
There are a lot of limitations of the move. And consequently, I definitely think that controlling your movement effectively is a far better defense than Nair.
Fortress | Sveet
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20 frames is a long time. Thats longer than ganon's fair start up (16 frames). If fox were to run straight at you and shine and you attempted to pivot nair as a defense, you would have to commit much sooner than he would since you have about 25 frames before you are defended (including the jump animation). I agree with KK that controlling your movement is a better defense and TBH i think a strong offense is the best defense in this match-up.