• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

Kanelol

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
1,840
Location
Ohio yeeeee
my friend reverse up-b'd me out of my falco up-b

like, i was in that invincible super fast fireball phase too

i was like ***** WHAT

in unrelated news, Colette's hot
 

Jun.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,797
Location
UC San Diego
I was about to say that just didn't wanna sound edgy

yeah if he has invincible frames in his up-b..... we'd all play falco
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Marth's Nair is a terrible way of approaching Fox.

You now know 2x more about Fox than you did before. Because you dumb dumbs ALL DO THE STUPID NAIR APPROACH and it SUCKS and Fox can DASH DANCE / NAIR / WHATEVER **** it but you guys DO IT ANYWAYS even though it LAGS YOU GUYS THE **** UP AND DOESN'T COVER GROUND AS WELL AS YOUR OTHER STUFF WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THIS GUY'S STRENGTHS
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Nair is actually a bad move vs fox in general, though it has some uses. For one, fox can just running shine under your nair for most of the animation. I actually like using nair when fox is directly above on platforms. You can aim your back hit to cover platform options while using the front hit to cover run off options. I do this cause its at times safer than shffl uair since it doesn't have the same CC weakness.

You can also place your nair hitbox in fox's range if he is on the opposite platform, but good fox players wont jump into it.

In general, if fox is on the ground you should be on the ground.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Aww u make me blush.

I might add that quote to my list, the first of which is (i think GOD!) saying "Sveet is the only person here making logical arguments" or something like that
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
I agree that nair is a terrible approach against fox. I disagree that nair is a bad move against Fox.

Nair is your primary way of protecting your dashdance. Pivot nair is fundamental in the matchup.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
shieldbash is the best player in the world (hes pretty good)

i wish people knew how good he is
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
KK if they see you dash away everytime they are just gonna overshoot. yea you can adjust back too but having nair to protect your dashdance gives you another option for them to account for. its legit..

running shine beats both dash dance and shffac nair.
what? it doesn't beat nair. you nair them in the face before they even get close to you. unless you are doing nair way later than you should be...and running shine only beats dashdance if they actually hit you with it lol.
 

Aber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
276
idk if u still check this cactuar but 2 sort of stupid simple questions
.1. What should I do if a player is holding their shield on a platform above me?
2. What should I do if an opponent jumps out of my u throw?

btw I doubt u remember but I played with you for a while at no johns.....Me and a kid with long hair were alternating getting ****ed up lol....Anyways if you can answer thanks
 

Jun.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,797
Location
UC San Diego
not cactuar but.

1.1: Jump on platform waveland down real fast and grab them. Marth is pretty fast and they have shield lag to worry about
1.2: Tilt their shield anyway since its safe and might poke their exposed feet.

2.1: They used their jump and now are vulnerable to aerial attacks. The only thing they can do is float/DI towards a place = easy punish.

amirite?
 

Kanelol

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
1,840
Location
Ohio yeeeee
not cactuar but.

1.1: Jump on platform waveland down real fast and grab them. Marth is pretty fast and they have shield lag to worry about
1.2: Tilt their shield anyway since its safe and might poke their exposed feet.

2.1: They used their jump and now are vulnerable to aerial attacks. The only thing they can do is float/DI towards a place = easy punish.

amirite?
if you do waveland --> grab, MAKE SURE YOU'RE BEHIND THEM

getting shield grabbed coming up through a platform is the most irritating thing ever
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Reading into when players go to overshoot against Marth and when your DDing (one of the easiest ways to tell is when they dash beyond the initial dash animation). Immediately turning around and grabbing them (turn around grab, jc grab, pivot grab, w/e just grab in their direction). Will usually net you a grab. If you ASDI down during the grab animation and they go for a shffl approach, you can often immediately grab them after that as well since as long as you turned around to grab them your spacing should be somewhat around the peak of their shffl jump. Making it easy to land a grab. You can sometimes even grab them out of aerials this way.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
what? it doesn't beat nair. you nair them in the face before they even get close to you. unless you are doing nair way later than you should be...and running shine only beats dashdance if they actually hit you with it lol.
Just saw this now. Fox's running shine gets below marth's shffac nair until after marth can fast fall on frame 20.

i agree with KK, marth's dash dance covers marth's dash dance.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
no they mean when fox expects you to dash away (since you are dash dancing) and attempts to hit where you are going instead of just nairing at the front of your dash dance and getting grabbed
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Just saw this now. Fox's running shine gets below marth's shffac nair until after marth can fast fall on frame 20.

i agree with KK, marth's dash dance covers marth's dash dance.
Well yeah. And fox's shine gets under Marth's late fair until after he fastfalls too. But why are you doing a nair if he is close enough to run under you like that. You're supposed to space it...and besides, you are doing a pivot nair for a reason; he has to aim and know where you are to actually hit you.

Marths dashdance covers marths dashdance. Sure. But so does pivot nair. Its like 2 options and stuff...

Woah...marths a pretty good character.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Nair is your primary way of protecting your dashdance. Pivot nair is fundamental in the matchup.
This part, the emphasis on Pivot Nair as a tool of immense importance, is what I mainly disagreed with. Nair doesn't cover distance as effectively as Fair, and Nair leaves him with fewer options going into the move because of its duration (unless you're willing to lag like hell).

There are a lot of limitations of the move. And consequently, I definitely think that controlling your movement effectively is a far better defense than Nair.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
20 frames is a long time. Thats longer than ganon's fair start up (16 frames). If fox were to run straight at you and shine and you attempted to pivot nair as a defense, you would have to commit much sooner than he would since you have about 25 frames before you are defended (including the jump animation). I agree with KK that controlling your movement is a better defense and TBH i think a strong offense is the best defense in this match-up.
 
Top Bottom