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AceDudeyeah

Smash Ace
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Dec 13, 2007
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Floridaa!
It's comparatively harder to hit him out of, though.
Fair enough.

Few questions:

Playing against Fox, when you get shined off the edge....what are your best options? I try to side-b, or jump to fair, but I always seem to get punished and killed by another shine.

Playing against Sheik, recovering from off stage, I usually go low so I can sweet spot the edge, but then she usually jumps out an nairs me. What do I do...
I suck against shines too when shined off the stage. That's why you have to hold towards the stage if you are shined to immediately grab the edge instead of flying off or if you are really close to the edge when you are shined off, hold down but let go so that you are able to grab the edge once you fall off.

One option I know around shines is to keep stalling with side-b, but make sure that you stay in place while side-b'ing.
Someone else can elaborate because I do not know whether you do it close enough so that you hit them if they try going off stage/grabbing the edge and if you try to grab the edge via jump or up-b.

Against sheik, are you naired out of your jump or your up-b?
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
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i just comboed axe's falco into a fullhop -> reverse rising fair -> reverse falling fair -> f-smash

i also almost comboed dualcats' sheik into a reverse bair to spike, but i choked on the spike and did another bair. i wanted to cry so hard. i slammed my fist on the table despite having just landed a game winner LOL

:(
 

ArcNatural

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Fair enough.



I suck against shines too when shined off the stage. That's why you have to hold towards the stage if you are shined to immediately grab the edge instead of flying off or if you are really close to the edge when you are shined off, hold down but let go so that you are able to grab the edge once you fall off.

One option I know around shines is to keep stalling with side-b, but make sure that you stay in place while side-b'ing.
Someone else can elaborate because I do not know whether you do it close enough so that you hit them if they try going off stage/grabbing the edge and if you try to grab the edge via jump or up-b.

Against sheik, are you naired out of your jump or your up-b?
The biggest thing about recovering with Marth is you shouldn't do ANYTHING without justification if you can just DI and upB recover. So many players overB or dbj fair just as a forced reaction just for being off the stage.

LEARN THE HORIZONTAL UPB RECOVERY. This makes your recovery a lot better in terms of how you can stall/space and your options.

Learn to reaction upb/overb/fair when people try to run off and hit you. I tend to only overb shine spikes or needles since I like to keep my jump. I also tend to upB on reaction to any wavedash edgehogs or run offs if I know they can't CC it and I have the time. They can bait this reaction, but that's part of the game, if they bait it you could of sweetspotted safely.

The other big thing is to STAY SPACED. You can fair and over B so that they can't just drop and shine you if they are edgehogging, and also make ledgehop bairs a lot harder to hit. A lot of players will often dbj fair or overb during the Fox invinc and just get shined or baired out.

OverB should only be used if you want to try to hit the edgegaurder while saving your double jump or stalling. It's mainly a stall.

Double jump fair I only typically use after I'm spaced after a stall or two since it really forces them to get off. I also almost always dbj fair away from the stage or straight up, never forward.

If you can maintain proper spacing, Sheik run off nair won't bounce you off the stage as she will only be hitting the sword hitbox. But of course this is all a pot shot, they can somehow do something to hit you. But the run off nair typically only works if your really close to the stage and trying to ride up it to sweet spot.

The biggest thing to remember really is don't use ANYTHING unless you have to, so many players just do the recovery stuff because they just see it being used. For example, when recovering high, the only reason to spam overB is because your trying to see how they setup to edgegaurd you and to set up your spacing accordingly, are they jumping out? are they edgehogging or staying on the stage? etc.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
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Up-B itself does weird things with meteor canceling. If you're recovering with Up-B and get meteor'd out of it, a 40 frame counter starts from the beginning of your Up-B and you can't meteor cancel in any way until that's over, and that counter doesn't run during hitlag.

Credit goes to Magus420 for originally finding this information out. Hope that helps!
Mind Blown. I never knew about the existing counter on the upB.

Edit: Crap I double posted D: Just merge if you care enough.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
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Mind Blown. I never knew about the existing counter on the upB.
There are some pretty ridiculous nuances with Melee's engine, no doubt. It's why the game is so ****ing good even after nearly 10 years. <3
 

Dr Peepee

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Sooooo.....

I split with M2K at a NC tournament today. Which is gay, but we super try harded and I went Marth first set of GF. =) Please tear the vids apart for me.

Also Cactuar since this is the ask you stuff thread we gotta talk Marth and wtf happened in here lol. <3
 

Dr Peepee

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Yes it was played out but split anyways and we were very serious.

I lost the Marth dittos except for 1 in that tournament set I'm pretty sure, but I don't think I got ***** any of those games. He switched to Sheik on me loool.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
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Oct 20, 2005
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2,321
so where should marth strike down to against sheik and why? can i get some opinions? i keep ending up on FD because i hate FoD and Dreamland

but lately i've been wondering is FoD really worse than FD for marth vs sheik.

Also, what was the most recent top level match of marth vs sheik..i don't even know what t o watch lately
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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so where should marth strike down to against sheik and why? can i get some opinions? i keep ending up on FD because i hate FoD and Dreamland

but lately i've been wondering is FoD really worse than FD for marth vs sheik.

Also, what was the most recent top level match of marth vs sheik..i don't even know what t o watch lately
Top level Marth vs Sheik doesn't happen often. I had a recent set vs Chillin's Sheik, but neither of us are really TOP anymore.
 

Tee ay eye

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especially since chillin wasn't really a sheik main, anyway
i'm sure his sheik was pretty good, but it still wasn't his main
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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I mean... Chillin's Sheik beat M2K's Marth at Evo World when M2K was playing like ***. Which makes me the best player in the world somehow.

Too lazy to do the full Inui logic follow-through. :troll:


But in that same line of thought, I'm not really a Marth main either. :troll:x2


I'm a GaW/Roy main with Fox/Marth secondaries. :troll:x3
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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I really like BF and FoD for Marth vs Sheik. Dislike Yoshi's. Dreamland isn't bad and suits the way I play that matchup really well, but I don't think it would be as good for the way most people play that matchup.
 

Strong Badam

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Yeah, exactly. It depends on your playstyle & your opponent's playstyle. There's more than one way to play Sheik or Marth at a high level, so stage impact changes based on the players.

Personally I'd like a stage with higher up platforms & a lot of space for Marth to control. So Kongo Jungle 64, Dreamland, and FD come to mind. The dip in KJ64 gives Marth an excellent location to control space while having a vertical difference between him and his opponent, and dtilting through the stage while standing uphill is so good.
 

Niko45

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Dreamland is really weird cause the drawbacks on paper are really obvious but I don't really have a problem playing sheik on it. There must be some more subtle things sheik loses from having plats so spaced out or something, idk.

And yea, sheik is free on YS!
 

Dart!

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for some reason i have a problem with sheik on every stage randomly sometimes i will **** sheik or just beat her everywhere or sometimes i can't beat her anywhere, i ****ing hate the matchup when the sheik is really gay vs marth.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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Aggressive Marth = Aggressive Sheik
Defensive Marth > Agressive Sheik
Aggressive Marth < Defensive Sheik
Defensive Marth < Defensive Sheik


Point is, a good defensive Sheik will beat Marth. Some stages accentuate her defensive capabilities much better than others.
 

Strong Badam

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usually the two go hand in hand... but jiggs is rarely ever going to KO you vertically and the only stage with close side blastlines and a high-ish ceiling is FoD, which everyone hates.
 

Dart!

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quick question, jiggs bans yoshis and you lose game 1 where do you go? i usually pick battlefield or man up with FoD
 
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