Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[makoforce]

Dtilit has IASA (Interruptible As Soon As) frames, and quite a lot of them. The moment Marth starts pulling his sword back, you can do several things: shield, walk, any A move, and probably a lot of other stuff. If you hold forward/back on the joystick as soon as you dtilt, on the first possible frame Marth will interrupt his dtilt with a walk, which you can then do anything from.

In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc at around 1:36 does he cancel his dtilt with a walk?

 

[Signia]

In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc at around 1:36 does he cancel his dtilt with a walk?

He cancels it with a dash. make sure you cancel it with something every time otherwise the recovery is as long as a ftilt.

 

[makoforce]

ok and one other thing im having trouble being vreative with my edgegaurding like its just the same ole thing

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

then experiment with new things :D

 

[Niko45]

ok and one other thing im having trouble being vreative with my edgegaurding like its just the same ole thing

Watch videos for different ideas but I don't really get what you're saying. I mean if you're bored because your opponents are just letting you fsmash them to death over and over play different/better people and they'll force you to make adjustments in your edgeguards.

 

[AlcyoNite]

dr pp gave me some of the best advice ive ever heard for the marth vs falco matchup:

delayed f-airs and d-tilt

i promise, its sooo good.

agh this was a bad typo. meant to say vs falcon

but i guess its good against falco too cuz if u get hit by a laser u can fair after the laser or air dodge away to screw with falco's spacing.

bad mistake

 

[P D]

whats the best way to kill a spacy at high percent? seems i have troubles more so then at low percents

 

[OverLord]

F-Tilts and B-Throws to FSmash.

Don't spam FSmash 'cause it just opens windows to punish you.

He'll probably be careful 'cause of the high percentage, so just try to read some movements and techs.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Side B *****

 

[Jun.]

I wish I knew how to use the full side B correctly

as in not just the first hit.

 

[earla]

tips on approaching falco? i get stuck in shield too frequently.

tips on dealing with lasers?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

wavedash->shield

then when you think he might come at you, wavedash back fsmash

100% of my vs falco game

 

[OverLord]

^yeah

and in general, don't get stuck in shield, move around and shield just when the laser hits you, then wavedash wherever you want, but don't stuck in shield, that's what Falco wants you to do..

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Just jump towards him at an angle like M2K. Use your double jumps and ****. Ofc mix in your shield work and fair out of shield approaches too, but don't forget that your aerial approach is a huge weapon.

 

[earla]

how do you use crouch cancelling effectively as marth? tips much appreciated?

 

[OverLord]

it depends on match-ups. Generally when you know you can't do **** to avoid a hit, just press down, then grab or whateva.

 

[AlcyoNite]

how do you use crouch cancelling effectively as marth? tips much appreciated?

learn what u can cc

then cc grab

edit: cc grab by holding shield and spamming a

 

[Wo1f]

What does OOS mean?

 

[OverLord]

Out Of Shield

 

[Tee ay eye]

guys, help me come up with a name for my combo video

sooner i get a name, sooner it's released

according to bob$, sleepyK, and gg7, it's the best marth combo video ever made

 

[ChivalRuse]

You could name it "the best Marth combo video ever made."

 

[Teczer0]

You could also put that post in the social thread where you shoulda put it you *******.

=3

 

[Tee ay eye]

there's a social thread?

 

[Teczer0]

Yea, check the stickies.

Now stop spamming before I move this convo =3

 

[Dart!]

You could name it "the best Marth combo video ever made."

Do it now gohan. duh

 

[Tee ay eye]

Do it now gohan. duh

i can't believe i didn't think of that.

either way, bob$ came up with a name

TAI - Tipping an Illusion

 

[MT_]

Lmao at this tournament Saturday we were rocking "Do it now Gohan!" so hard... and then whenever they didn't: "No, he has to suffer more!"

 

[DippnDots]

what direction should you DI when you play sheik, especially out of a down throw.

When you get hit really high but don't get KO'd off the ceiling, do you usually go for the edge, platform, stage, is it more situational?

And is it a bad idea to attack sheiks shield?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

what direction should you DI when you play sheik, especially out of a down throw.

At 0-7%: up and behind her then either side b or jump.

After that, you kinda have to mix it up. She has ways to cover all your options. Sometimes, its best to just eat an ftilt (DI AWAY so that you don't get the fair afterwards). Test the Sheik's knowledge; go on platforms and see if she wavelands on and grabs (if you see this, don't go for platforms anymore lol) or does some bull**** weak aerial. DI behind and see if she'll be dumb and bair. At high % first DI to eat a uair, then fair (uair kills better on most stages).

I know this isn't the advice you want to hear but its true...Sheik ***** off grabs. You have to try to trick her with DI; there is no safe way to get out. Its built up karma for what we put spacie mains through lol.

When you get hit really high but don't get KO'd off the ceiling, do you usually go for the edge, platform, stage, is it more situational?

Situational. I go for the edge for sure if I have no double jump though; going for the stage without fast-fall/DJ mindgames is suicide. Counter can save your *** in these situations, but don't rely on it.

And is it a bad idea to attack sheiks shield?

Depends on the attack. Delayed fair, nair, and dtilt are ****ing fantastic. It'll keep her guessing about when you are gonna go in for that grab. Pretty much everything else is bad, including rising/double fair. A Sheik who knows her shield options will punish those on reaction every time.

Don't forget that Marth's primary shield pressure is his dashdance though. Hes not Fox, Falco, or Peach. He doesn't hit shields repeatedly for his pressure very often. He has tools to but his grab is his main weapon. Every shield attack should be a mixup for the grab.

 

[AlcyoNite]

what direction should you DI when you play sheik, especially out of a down throw.

When you get hit really high but don't get KO'd off the ceiling, do you usually go for the edge, platform, stage, is it more situational?

And is it a bad idea to attack sheiks shield?

the 0-7 stuff crimson said should be right

after that, a good sheik will wait for ur away DI after the throw and chase for a guaranteed chaingrab. depending on how good u know the sheik is, either DI away if hes not gonna CG and just eat a tilt or something, or DI up the throw (or no DI) and DI the tilt away.

DI behind the sheik might(?) be a good mixup used sparingly, but sheik can up smash for a chunk of ur percent if u do that, so just be careful

 

[DippnDots]

At 0-7%: up and behind her then either side b or jump.

After that, you kinda have to mix it up. She has ways to cover all your options. Sometimes, its best to just eat an ftilt (DI AWAY so that you don't get the fair afterwards). Test the Sheik's knowledge; go on platforms and see if she wavelands on and grabs (if you see this, don't go for platforms anymore lol) or does some bull**** weak aerial. DI behind and see if she'll be dumb and bair. At high % first DI to eat a uair, then fair (uair kills better on most stages).

For clarification, you can't just hold away, you have to actually move the stick away as you're getting hit? Also this sheik has been using dair to platform chase and a lot of times I can get out of it, but it's good to know that in general it's not a great idea to tech on a platform against sheik. I'm gonna end up telling him to practice wavelanding on the platform and grabbing.

I know this isn't the advice you want to hear but its true...Sheik ***** off grabs. You have to try to trick her with DI; there is no safe way to get out. Its built up karma for what we put spacie mains through lol.

I'm a ganon main lol, kinda used to it, what you've told me though has eased the pain a little bit.

after that, a good sheik will wait for ur away DI after the throw and chase for a guaranteed chaingrab. depending on how good u know the sheik is, either DI away if hes not gonna CG and just eat a tilt or something, or DI up the throw (or no DI) and DI the tilt away.

luckily the sheik i play doesnt chaingrab unless it's serious or you're a space animal/falcon, but that's good to know for when i'm playing others. Thanks!

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

For clarification, you can't just hold away, you have to actually move the stick away as you're getting hit? Also this sheik has been using dair to platform chase and a lot of times I can get out of it, but it's good to know that in general it's not a great idea to tech on a platform against sheik. I'm gonna end up telling him to practice wavelanding on the platform and grabbing.

Hold away to DI the grab and continue holding to DI the ftilt. I usually Smash DI the ftilt just cause its so easy though.

If you are under a platform in the 20s and 30s, its pretty easy to trick them into thinking you are going on the platform but don't. Higher %s its a lot harder because you are so far above the platform that you are basically forced to tech. At some angles under the platform, you can actually DI so that you can choose to tech or go past the lip of the platform and land on stage. Thats very tricky and even the best Sheiks miss those follow-ups.

I get grabbed a lot.. way too much right now. I think personally I need to work on my spacing with him but I'm gonna ask for a little clarification in case it's more than that.

Yeah, its tough. Sheiks grab is so good. Keep in mind that most Sheiks just wait until you land to grab. One huge mistake I see a lot of Marths making, even the great ones, is that they overestimate their own lag. Dash if your spacing wasn't horrendous, and spotdodge if you ****ed up bad. Don't just stand there after you land with a fair asking to get grabbed...Marth really doesn't have as much lag on his aerials as people think. The thing that makes Sheik so tough (well, one of the many things) is that her wavedash is ****ing perfect for spacing a Marth. She sees you coming in with an aerial? Wavedash back, wait till you land, dash attack or grab. You hit a rising aerial on her shield? Wavedash forward, sheildgrab. Her short but quick wavedash gives her the ability to weave in and out of Marths ranges, putting her just far away enough for you to miss, but close enough to punish.

Really good to know about the rising double fair. Do you need to space perfectly with the down tilt? I know the nair and fair need to be pretty much perfect, then again i havent been delaying them often. Sometimes I feel like I've tipped her shield but still gotten grabbed, with the nair especially. Does it need to be spaced better than just a tip and literally on the edge of his hitbox or will a delayed tip get-r-done? Don't tell me it's both or I'm gonna switch to fox (jk)

Nair spacing is tricky because there are 3 variants of it. The stand-still nair space, where you hit the top of their shield while jumping straight up. The running nair space (nair cross-up), where the first hit of nair hits while you are in front of them and the second hits behind them. And finally, the floating-back nair space, where you dash forward, jump backwards faking a running nair or grab, and hit the bottom then middle of their shield while floating back. All 3, when done correctly, are unpunishable. Its not so much as hitting with the tip, as landing in the right place. Also, make sure you autocancel your nairs, never delay a nair (only fairs!).

Dtilt doesn't need to be perfectly spaced. Actually, it doesn't have to be spaced at all, it just has to hit...lol dtilt *****. See this thread.

Oh oh oh and real quick, does CC->grab help against sheik at all? i'd assume only if you know she's gonna dash attack

Yes yes a million times yes. CC is Marths main weapon against Sheik. You can CC like...everything. If you are below 50% you should be thinking about CC more than shield.

 

[DippnDots]

Rep +1, got a lot to work on now.

 

[Dart!]

In all honesty, after playing the matchup so much.

Pretty much do your best to not get grabbed, don't get caught in your shield.

Just space her out with dtilts and fairs and utilize your IASA frames for the love of god. KEEP MOVING. don't stand around, sheik will chase you down.

 

[AlcyoNite]

hey anyone wanna talk about the vs peach matchup?

i mean, vs actually good peaches plz?

ways to do this:
top 5 moves to use against peach
top 5 moves NOT to get hit with by peach
what is the least risk/high return approach/move to use vs peach?
what should i look for while comboing peach? at particular percents?

edit: name dropping m2k mew2king jason zimmerman in case he has anything to say about this

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

top5 TO use: dtilt. fair. ftilt. fsmash. nair.
top5 to NOT use: dtilt. fair. ftilt. fsmash. nair.
best approach: dtilt.
what to look for in combos: dash attack

The match-up isn't so much about what moves to use but when to use them. Marth's match-ups aren't quite as simple as other characters', you cant just be like "X move beats everything they do". Peach has an answer to every move marth has, but marth really should destroy her in the match-up.

 

[G.L.]

if you havent watched vids of mangos marth, then you need too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeR68yUhVNY
the final game on dream land is so crazy. mango is too good

 

[Tee ay eye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNwenAqVaBU&feature=recentf

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

awesome video tai

 

[MT_]

Tai that was ****