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Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

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†Slader7†

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Oli is a ***** to play against >.>
He as a mad grab range and smashes that can tear our ground approaches
upB can be annoying if the oli knows the timing
and he's so fricken Small! :mad088:

The only thing we have with us is utilt, uair, and good ol' Falcon Gimps :falcon:
 

Darky-Sama

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If you got the Uair to hit through MK's Dair, you just got close enough to him between his Dairs for it to hit, which is rare. It's one of the few attacks in the game that safely out ranges our Uair.

Aside from that, MK can space himself away from our Uairs extremely easy by burning his extra jumps + Dair. We can't cancel our momentum in the air all that well either, so it's difficult to get around.
 

Sovereign

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mk isn't so hard it's only anywhere near terrible because he can gimp you so easily


sacred how the **** does falco gimp at all
Chain-grab to Dair is the number one way to get gimped by Falco, especially as characters like Ganondorf and Falcon. The next is his lazors that screw with recoveries all across the map. His phantasm can be a nasty surprise, if you're not expecting it. He's got a powerful tech chase game, and has more priority than almost everything Falcon has.
 

Darky-Sama

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Though running off and back airing can cause Falco to fail his recovery, his Bair stays out for a long time making it a rather decent offstage punishing tool. If he runs off the stage, fastfalls, then uses a rising Bair to avoid the risk of being stuck too far below the stage, yeah. He can use his Bair to stage spike just as easily as most characters in that fashion.

I'm not entirely sure on it's hitbox, but Falco can run off the stage, fastfall and use a side+B to grab the ledge and it has the potential to semi-spike people as well as edgehog too.
 

Sovereign

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That I know, but it doesn't put Falcon in the best position, still. Falco can still follow up with something to keep Falcon off the stage.
 

Player-3

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like what? DJ bair?
just FF under it and get to the ledge

seriously he CAN'T gimp you unless you miss the tech, even then at low %s he shouldn't be able to gimp you lol
 

Zatchiel

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That I know, but it doesn't put Falcon in the best position, still. Falco can still follow up with something to keep Falcon off the stage.
I normally SDI > Tech Jump > Uair to punish Falco for attempting to Stage Spike in the first place, it works wonders.
If the have a Second jump after that, they're best option is to DJ >Side+B, which could set Falcon up to be Semi-Spiked and edge-hogged, as Darky stated, but it can be intercepted.
But if the Falco does that without a DJ, the Falco is as good as gone.
 

Darky-Sama

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It's not like Falco needs to punish us offstage. If he wanted to, he could go all the way across the stage and wait, then camp with lasers after we get off the ledge. We won't be benefiting much from stalling either since chances are, he'll be in the lead.

Falco doesn't really NEED to take a risk like that against us. If Falcon does stall and he wants to stop him, he can run off, fast fall and side+B toward the stage at the last second to instantly edgehog. That means Falcon either dies or goes up onto the stage where Falco can punish him. Falco might be limited on decent gimping, but like every character, he does have options. Some extremely annoying options, I might add.
 

A user name

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Instead of discussing multiple characters at once, why don't we actually start discussing one character match up?
 

Purple

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easy enough said user name, also we could go through a list of things to do for this matchup.

starting with getting people who are willing ot discuss, figuring out stages, then what moves beat what, etc.
 

lordhelmet

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:olimar: 25-75 - Video (lordhelmet)

  • Utilize:
  1. Your jab game, and utilt
  2. Uair, bair
  3. Dthrow
  4. FH nair>SH rising nair (true combo)
  • Other tips:
  1. Try to keep Olimar in the air as much as possible
  2. Always edgehog his recovery
  3. Don't get grabbed at low percents, play safe at low percents in general
  • CP:
  1. RC
  2. Frigate
  • Ban:
  1. BF
  2. Picto

*from my guide*
 

mlorenzo

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ill say is more like 30 - 70 olimar can get raptor boost chase and he lags when he uses pikmin and falcon can punch the pikmin. Best way to approach is fake a nair to jab cancel grab and up throw.
 

Zatchiel

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But remember, his Pikmin are classified as objects, so anything that hits them can cause the same amout of hitstun as if it hit a character.
This can leave Falcon open, making moves like Falcon Kick worthless if there is a desynched Pikmin in the way of Falcon.
 

Ussi

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Pikachu CGs falcon to 105% with dthrow. dthrows start at 19%, so from 0% its 2 fthrows> pummel > 14 dthrows + regrab(can Usmash instead)
 

Zatchiel

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Pikachu CGs falcon to 105% with dthrow. dthrows start at 19%, so from 0% its 2 fthrows> pummel > 14 dthrows + regrab(can Usmash instead)
o.o
lolwtf?
Is Falcon that horrible? I need a vid of this nao!
Sounds like a nightmare.
 

Ussi

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it's sounds scary but only is probable on SV, BF, FD, and Lylat to an extent. Dunno about Yoshi's and slants, but other stages have shenanigans to prevent landing standing still CGs To it's full effect (transforming and moving basically) though CS and delfino still have walk offs and Pikachu fthrow CGs you to 67%

EDIT: here is an old video showing the buffer CG, its not on falcon but it's showing it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v8Myoltijo[/COLOR]
 

Killua

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:olimar: 25-75 - Video (lordhelmet)

  • Utilize:
  1. Your jab game, and utilt
  2. Uair, bair
  3. Dthrow
  4. FH nair>SH rising nair (true combo)
  • Other tips:
  1. Try to keep Olimar in the air as much as possible
  2. Always edgehog his recovery
  3. Don't get grabbed at low percents, play safe at low percents in general
  • CP:
  1. RC
  2. Frigate
  • Ban:
  1. BF
  2. Picto

*from my guide*
Use Fthrow => Dash shield => regrab . I use this against good Olimar like Zulu , and that always work at 0-20% .
Near the ledge Fthrow = > aua => aua is too good and that can take is double jump and you can kill him with edgeguard him
 

Zeallyx

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Yes, falcon IS THAT bad.

That's why I lol@falcon overratingz and falcon optimism. :bee:
 

Zeallyx

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Falcon v MK is 100:0 to CF. Don't believe me? Watch me **** M2K when I go to America!
Kzz.
Will ya send me a postcard, too? :bee:

Dear 2Knee,

Today my dreams got shattered, and my joke misunderstood.
I send you this postcard from the land of nightmares and dispair:
M2K's bedroom. He's reapingz me as I write this, so I gtg moan moar.

Ttyl,

Urz truly, teh Willz
 

lordhelmet

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OKAY. Moving on, we are now discussing Olimar. I will report every single post that is off topic past this point.

And Kill, what do you mean by "aua"???
 

lordhelmet

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Against Olimar...

Grounded approaches are pretty much impossible, anything we do will get grabbed. Aerial approaches are still really hard, we have to make sure we don't get faired, you have to be really creative to get inside Oli's bubble. Obviously Olimar ***** us on the ground, we we beat him in the air. We **** him anywhere in the air (just don't get caught above him)!

At low percent's try to avoid grab>fair combos as they can combo us to 50% easily. Offstage gimps are pretty easy, flub>uair should do the trick. Always be careful when edgehogging, Olimar can still mix it up and throw fatties at us, he's not Ivysaur. Falcon Kick seems to mindgame a lot of the Olimars I've played, it's fun to kill all of us his pikmen with it, but I still wouldn't recommend using it.

That's what I got for now, might post something new later. And I'll get more offline games against L_Cancel next time I'm out and about.

Anywhere from 8-2 to 75-25
 

Darky-Sama

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Spamming up tilt in this match-up will do wonders. It demolishes his Pikmin, rather they latch onto you, miss and are running back toward him, whatever. Only a bad Olimar would sit around spamming smashes and grabs all day, but you can pretty much expect that from most Olimar players nowadays. Up tilt will at least keep his side+B Pikmin throwing at bay.

Olimar out spaces us otherwise. His range, attack percentages and knockback all rely on the types of Pikmin he has, so he's often limited on what attacks do what. It's almost a given that Olimars are going to abuse their grabs due to it's long range. That alone limits us on the ground.

In the air, watch out for Olimar's up+B when you're near him because it can smack you out of the air and deal quite a bit of percent and knockback. A defensive Olimar that knows how to shut down Falcon's approaches can make this close to unwinnable for him, sadly. It's not really the smashes that pose a large problem, but the grabs and up+B are by far the most ridiculous things that a character has to limit Falcon. When it comes to Olimar being in the air, spamming up air is good.


My strategy, camping.

Stay away from Olimar and force him to approach, if he throws Pikmin at you, just spam up tilt or something that can safely keep them off of you, or dodge them, even. When he's forced to pick more or they're running back toward him, use that opportunity to abuse your speed and punish him. You won't be able to catch him off guard without at least one Pikmin, but if he's down to one or two, that's still better than him having them all near him.

Spamming short hop air dodge might be good here too if he gets near you. Don't stay on the ground near him, that's just asking to be combo'd. He can abuse his quick follow up options and **** our fastfall properties if you don't stay out of his grab range.

20:80 or 25:75 seems about right to me as well.
 

lordhelmet

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Btw, Darky. I am thinking that turbo jab stops his pikmen from grabbing you, I'll have to test it, but for some reason I'm thinking that it does.
 

lordhelmet

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Zeallyx

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It's 75-25 Oli's advantage.

But barely. It's leaning towards 80-20. Olimar.
 

Darky-Sama

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Unfortunately, Slader, it really is.

The only thing we have on Olimar is the fact that he can be gimped horrifically easy, as to MK, trying to gimp him is as good as a suicide.

25:75 seems about right to me.


Edit: It might be able to stop the grab. I know it can stop Yoshi, but eh. It might depend on the range that Olimar tries to grab you. Unless you mean Pikmin grappling onto you as in his side+B, yeah, I know for a fact that it stops that.
 
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