Social C. Falcon Social

[Nakamaru]

What do you do against a sheik that is essentially always CCing?

Grab wiffs when she is crouching, and she can catch me when i try to hit > run or Hit > Roll. It seems like you just have to wait for sheik to jump. However sheiks that know the matchup are never going to jump.

 

[Wenbobular]

So I've noticed through videos that alot of good falcons can Uair instantly out of a short hop, is this just purely through speed of the fingers? or is there a different technique used?

Hold up on the control stick or be fast with the Cstick

If Sheik is always crouching why not approach with stomp

 

[S l o X]

every sheik except tope sucks vs falcon i hope it stays that way.

mango shield is really good. (if he misses tech chase as falcon he immediately dashes towards enemy and sometimes shields)

who is going to big house

wenbo i was going to say that but dair will get ***** by utilt or ftilt or even fair even if its not an obvious approach. well spaced knee or run up shield is your best option but dair is pretty good on paper vs crouch

 

[Wenbobular]

I mean if the Sheik is literally always crouching <_<
If you can get them to do something just by running at them, that's like a victory right there is it not

Dairing is a necessary evil to keep them honest, otherwise not even knee is really plus on CC at low %

After you've proven your willingness to stomp their face in they should respect your run-ins a little more ... and if not, continue to stomp their face in

I'm probably going to Big House

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I agree with Wenbo, if you can't stomp them for overusing CC, then what else are you supposed to do? Stomp may not always be the safest option, but sometimes it is the only option.

Speaking of which, I finally played a decent Sheik last night and applied some of the stuff ppl told me to do way back when, and it worked pretty well. Stomp them for overusing CC, stomp them for being predictable, stomp them on platforms. Space with bairs. CC their ftilts and retaliate with downslanted ftilt. Get the most out of every grab and try not to get grabbed. Stay mobile and camp from platforms. I may link a vid when I actually have time to deal with the 9~10hrs of footage I've recorded over the last two days.

 

[It's me Q]

So I've noticed through videos that alot of good falcons can Uair instantly out of a short hop, is this just purely through speed of the fingers? or is there a different technique used?

Ive found it pretty easy to do using the control stick to jump (quick flick up) free's up my other hand for C-stick. Great for all instant aerials imo.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yep, you must be fast. There is a solid technical barrier involved with executing some of the strategies the top players use.

 

[Tee ay eye]

i use Z for instant uairs

 

[FerrishTheFish]

People ask that question so often, maybe s2j should edit it into the first post or something.

 

[JMan8891]

I use up and A. I tried in friendlies this week to get it as fast with c stick and I sometimes get my Usmash by mistake. That's something I need to drop.

 

[Wenbobular]

I mean you could also play like a ***** and never go near them but they have needles so it's mad annoying
Also camping is boring <_<

 

[Deleted member]

Jump with Y + hold up lightly + A for instant upair

 

[JMan8891]

Jump with Y + hold up lightly + A for instant upair

I watch Hax, and when he is practicing his tech/applying it mid-match, he doesn't instaUair so fast and consistently SHFFLs it, I can't imagine he was utilizing analog up. Just that by default one is bound to flub a fastfall that way. May be the case he just has it down that solid, but that was my thought.

 

[Wenbobular]

If you're delaying them you can't do things like scoop standing Foxes

Instant Uairs and delayed Uairs are two completely different beasts

 

[tarheeljks]

agree about having to dair sheik. fwiw i had this very convo with tafokints (pretty good norcal sheik main) like a month or two ago and he basically said what wenbo said

 

[Nakamaru]

If you hold up before you leave the ground you can instant Uair a lot more consistently IMO. I'm pretty sure this is also the method hax uses.

Just hit jump -> hold up -> press A -> DI.

Works really well for things like jab jab uair on shields.

 

[Mokumo]

i came up with a pretty good technique the other day, though i am sure it has been used before. I call it the "Just kidding!"

Whenever you get a free layup knee (works best after a stomp), set up as if you're going to do a knee. make it real dramatic - like double jump and space it as if you will hit them with the knee as late as possible. Here's the trick: right before you hit your opponent, scream "WATCH OUT FOR THE KNEE!!", but instead hit him with an upair. 90% of the time they will survival DI it and you get a free uair -> knee.

it is crucial that as you hit them with the knee, you say "just kidding!"

 

[Wenbobular]

... <_<

Usually if they're at 90 you just take the knee and edgeguard
Around like 70 or so is usually when you want to Uair for a much easier edgeguard (or often the straight kill)

 

[Boat Mode]

For onstage edgeguarding, do any of Falcon's moves hit sweetspots besides dair? I've seen some cool uair stuff but i dont think it was vs sweetspotting. I guess utilt would work vs some but I don't really use that move.

 

[S l o X]

how about you just go for reverse bair and ****?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Or bair -> edgecancel -> edgehog?

 

[RFrizzle]

Runoff uair?

 

[Deleted member]

For onstage edgeguarding, do any of Falcon's moves hit sweetspots besides dair? I've seen some cool uair stuff but i dont think it was vs sweetspotting. I guess utilt would work vs some but I don't really use that move.

i dont know hitboxes but if ur timings perfect up-tilt might beat perfect sweetspot (spacey side-b)

 

[Wenbobular]

Won't hit shortens though
Nothing hits shortens

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Won't hit shortens though
Nothing hits shortens

You LIE, sir! Dash attack hits shorten every time!! You just gotta try harder!

Jokes aside, I'd say bair -> edgecancel -> edgehog is def your best bet if you think they're going to shorten, or if you just have time to do that where you know the sweetspot Illusion won't hit you. They'll react to the bair by trying to sweetspot and/or shorten, then you edgehog them because you got there first.

 

[Strong Badam]

just checked fb

have 69 mutual friends with s2j

feels good man

 

[Wenbobular]

Height sweetspotted shortens are pretty scary to try the Bair edgecancel edgehog against because they actually grab the ledge very quickly

If you have the read on the shorten just grab the ledge and getup attack

 

[Tee ay eye]

if you mess up the ledge WD a lot and end up doing the unviable, super ****ty high-jump onto the stage, it may be more than just an execution issue. WATCH THIS VIDEO SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddiyOoqAzio

also please show it to anyone else you know who you think can learn from it

 

[Scar]

thx for the vid tai you easily could have done it in 1/4 the time but it's still interesting / helpful. my biggest problem is always doing things too fast

 

[Tee ay eye]

yeah, i didn't plan ahead that much when i was making the video. i sorta got the inspiration to make the video today when i randomly watched oscar vs ppu and i saw oscar make the same mistake (he PC hogged onto the ledge, tried to ledge WD, and did a tournament winner.

im busy this entire weekend, and i knew that if i waited until after the weekend, i'd lose the motivation to make it, so i just rushed it today.

glad you learned from it, though. i'm thinking about trying to make more vids like this where i try to teach game stuff that not everyone knows or understands fully.

 

[knightpraetor]

nice video..good to popularize it..ever since wobbles post i've been having less problems. Everyone really does need to know about the 3rd reason

 

[flantasticflan]

scar and s2j need to make a teach me how to Dougie vid

 

[Nakamaru]

That video was great Tee ay eye. I knew everything but the last part about the control stick. That actually helps a lot and i definitely noticed it affecting me at times during my last smash session.

You should make more vids.

 

[Tee ay eye]

That video was great Tee ay eye. I knew everything but the last part about the control stick. That actually helps a lot and i definitely noticed it affecting me at times during my last smash session.

You should make more vids.

thanks

and ill think about that second part

i can't think of anything else to make a vid on, though

 

[Deleted member]

cliffs for vid don't have patience for watching 5 minute vid for 1 piece of advice

unless that 1 piece of advice takes 5 minutes to explain which i doubt

 

[Twinkles]

summary of tai's video

reasons for missing ledge-dashes
1. you messed up (hit jump before hitting down or hitting jump and down at the same time)
2. you tried letting go of the ledge too quickly (8-frame window before you can let go of the ledge, basically for as long as the little circle for grabbing the ledge is out)
3. you didn't bring the control stick to neutral before grabbing the ledge (wobbles has a post about it in Melee Discussion)

 

[Nakamaru]

You don't need the control stick to be at neutral position before grabbing the ledge. You just need it to be at neutral when you grab it. So during the 8 frames you can't do anything anyway let go on the control stick and you shouldn't run into this problem.

 

[Wenbobular]

No you need it to be in neutral when you let go haha

 

[RFrizzle]

How do you **** a campy dash dancy fox?

 

[KUSH.]

make every grab count