Social C. Falcon Social

[Deleted member]

hes not bad actually and vs any falcon he is better then his defensive style will inevitably lame out a win

 

[Wenbobular]

I just felt that it wasn't hard to get hits and a Falcon better at punishing than me would've beat him up

Unless he was just like ... mad sandbagging vs me
That'd be kinda lame

 

[Nintendude]

I'd be surprised if Kels was bad vs Falcon since he's played Darkrain a bazillion times (and he beats him too).

 

[Deleted member]

I just felt that it wasn't hard to get hits and a Falcon better at punishing than me would've beat him up

Unless he was just like ... mad sandbagging vs me
That'd be kinda lame

might be stretching but Kels has no respect for the midwest (smashwise). probably sandbagged da **** out of you

 

[Wenbobular]

How depressing

I'm not from ... anywhere close to the Midwest though o_O

 

[Nakamaru]

Big house was a lot of fun. Wenbobular, you're really good to warm up against, and it helped me a good deal with 2nd round pools.

I got bodied in bracket, chillin then lovage back to back was rough. -.-

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha
Glad to be of some help

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Falcon Help!

I know I prob have more Yoshi experience than 99% of the ppl here on account of playing Angel quite a bit, but does anyone know what % I should start going for finishers against that stegosaurus? My brain tells me that 70~80% is the right time, but when it actually comes down to us each with 1 stock and I get him to that %, it just ... I dunno, it just seems like that isn't enough, and before I know it, he's at >100% and I can't combo him into finishers anymore X_X Am I right about killing %'s being 70~80%? Should I be going balls-deep even earlier? Or should I be camping the **** out of him until 140%?

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha .... Yoshi doesn't have a shield game aside from shield dropping so .... pressure better or something

 

[Tee ay eye]

you can probably beat yoshi by using bair and knee very liberally mixed with smart movement and grabs until he's dead

 

[Oro?!]

Wenbob good matches. Our pool was tough but still beatable imo for either of us.

Your set vs Little England was so close.

 

[Wenbobular]

I was pretty depressed about that Little England set
Were you that Falcon that beat me or was that someone else?
Cuz I was pretty depressed about that too haha
I'm usually pretty confident in the ditto

 

[KirbyKaze]

u heard WRONG call me w/e u like

Foo-foo-cuddlypups it is!

 

[Oro?!]

I was pretty depressed about that Little England set
Were you that Falcon that beat me or was that someone else?
Cuz I was pretty depressed about that too haha
I'm usually pretty confident in the ditto

Yeah that was my falcon.
I would've been depressed losing to you too because I think I'm decent at the ditto as well.
I threw my set away vs Shady and had a shot vs LE too, so I was really mad afterwards haha.
Who did Kels go against you?

 

[Wenbobular]

Spewing sets sucks :[ I had Little England >_<

Kels went Fox

 

[Oro?!]

I should've done worse vs his Falco/Sheik so he would've tried going them vs you for easier wins lol.

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha well I like playing vs Foxes anyway it's kinda fun

We should money match next time I am somewhat salty
Apex??

 

[Oro?!]

If I am going sure. I'm motivated for the first time in a long time after this. Time to put the work in.

 

[DuckPimp]

Falcon Help!

I know I prob have more Yoshi experience than 99% of the ppl here on account of playing Angel quite a bit, but does anyone know what % I should start going for finishers against that stegosaurus? My brain tells me that 70~80% is the right time, but when it actually comes down to us each with 1 stock and I get him to that %, it just ... I dunno, it just seems like that isn't enough, and before I know it, he's at >100% and I can't combo him into finishers anymore X_X Am I right about killing %'s being 70~80%? Should I be going balls-deep even earlier? Or should I be camping the **** out of him until 140%?

AHA

I AM NEEDED

I am probably that 1%. In a great deal of situations before 70-80 you can do an uair or double uair (or uair to knee if they mess up, 2 ez). If you get to the percent where you cant combo him anymore, just go for errant hits that knock him offstage, and push your advantage. if he goes in shield, pressure him hard. If youre confident and consistent with your combos you can go pretty balls deep off of most hits (mostly uair uair uair uair). Though experience you'll learn when he can just dbljump or nair out of your things.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

Attention Falcons of the world who get ***** by falco and fox.

Lesser falcons (such as I) and even more experienced falcons at times fall into the trap of spot dodge->shine. That is, we attempt a grab on a spacy (usually during a techchase situation), miss it and then get shined and zero deathed =_=

I can think of some ways to get around it but I think it would be helpful to discuss all ways around this that are possible.

 

[Wenbobular]

You can add an extra tight dashdance if you're late on the grab

Or you can do delayed aerials if you they have a spotdodging tendency

 

[Twinkles]

I'm having more trouble against utilt

 

[Bones0]

Just (shield stop) knee. They'll DI it down and look dumb.

 

[tarheeljks]

Attention Falcons of the world who get ***** by falco and fox.

Lesser falcons (such as I) and even more experienced falcons at times fall into the trap of spot dodge->shine. That is, we attempt a grab on a spacy (usually during a techchase situation), miss it and then get shined and zero deathed =_=

I can think of some ways to get around it but I think it would be helpful to discuss all ways around this that are possible.

i think it's mostly about recognizing when you are late and adjusting accordingly

 

[S l o X]

falcon ***** but im not ready

sorry nakamaru i couldnt **** you in falcon dittos when you werent tired. i think your combo game is good but your neutral game isnt as good as it could be.

i didnt see a lot of wenbo so idk

if you play against westballz = wd oos into nair if hes doing insane shield pressure. just time it so when he wd down into more double shines you wd back. if you are cornered just prepared to roll

i wish wes was playing better vs frootloop, idk how scar lost to trail. scarrrrrr

i love playing against wc players

 

[FerrishTheFish]

i think it's mostly about recognizing when you are late and adjusting accordingly

Agreed. I won't pretend that I never get caught in the spotdodge-shine combo, but since Foxes and Falcos tend to abuse spotdodge, even if I know I'm late I can usually just predict the spotdodge and grab them right after (which you can set up with dashdancing, pivoting, or just stopping right in front of them). I haven't mustered the courage to run up and shield -> [insert manliness] or delayed [insert manliness], but I'm sure I'll get there once I have more experience against really good players.

Also, thanks for the tips QuackaliciousProstituteAdvertiser. I'll start trying to go for more ballsy stuff at like 50~60% and see what works and what doesn't.

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

This is good stuff. It can be a ***** if they decide to uptilt instead though..

@Twinkles - so yes beating uptilt indeed... I find if you are above them, don't try stomping the utilt (unless you are mango, ive seen him get the spacing Lol..). CC-dtilt/grab can be useful against it. Also Pivot->knee if you have that down, with neat spacing.

What else?

 

[Deleted member]

good players only spotdodge after a tech only in extreme borderline situations

so

just run up to them in those spots--> shield +A after spotdodge

the 2007 method was run up knee in place but that only works on scared n00bs nowadays

short hop stomping up-tilt could work but u have to do some extreme spacing

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

So you mean Shield and react with A when you see the spot dodge s2j?

As for up tilt, is there a potential just to space the up tilt and take the frame advantage by doing nothing to punish it? Maybe murder them when they try to cancel the utilt into a dash or someting.

 

[Wenbobular]

Yes
Shield + A = shieldgrab

I have no idea what you're talking about when you're talking about uptilt though
If you mean they whiff an uptilt and you punish their escape option ... why wouldn't you just grab them in the uptilt lag <_<

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

Ignore what I was saying, I was talking rubbish :D

 

[Scidadle]

Whenever I'm trying to D-Throw tech chase often times people will just tech in place and I don't have the time to react to grab first. Is there anything I can do to cover tech in place and still have time to follow up with a re-grab?


Also how do I convert pressure into opportunities to combo/kill. Say I'm in the middle of the stage pressuring them (by the ledge) with nairs and bairs. What's a good way to open them up?

 

[Wenbobular]

Personal favorite - pivot Bair the tech in place by the ledge -> grab their tech rolls
The bad thing about this is if you actually hit the Bair a lot of the time you won't get any real follow up until higher %

I mean, if you can't react to tech in place then you're just kinda forced to guess
The good thing is if you can't react with grab, you can dashdance and try to get their escape option (i.e. their roll / spotdodge)

Or you can just guess when they won't techroll with a stomp or something and just kill them whenever you're right
Then you can try to pick up their tendencies for when they switch up their tech in place based on their tendencies, position from the ledge, etc ... (because you can always react with regrab on their techrolls)

 

[Scidadle]

Yeah. I saw hax do the pivot bair thing. I dunno. I just feel like I should be able to react to it.

 

[Wenbobular]

Reacting to tech in place with grab is doable, just not the easiest thing in the world

I mean there a bunch of traps you can do while techchasing based on position and creative ways to cover multiple options

I see Mango often do nonfastfalled short hops that look like he's reacting to their tech option with the appropriate aerial ... he's giving up tech toward him, but you can't really cover all their options 100% so it's on you to get a read on what they will / won't do to get out of your techchase

Also if you get the chance, hitting / throwing them onto a platform in a way that gives you enough time to fall on them with stomp is like ... basically as sure of a stomp knee as you can get

Just like be creative
Falcon is mad fast
Unfortunately he doesn't have the best way of getting missed tech

 

[FerrishTheFish]

What I do is when I dthrow (or uthrow) and they don't DI away far enough, I'll just wavedash up right next to them. If they tech in place, I grab. If they roll, I chase. If they miss the tech, I jab reset and go from there. Sometimes I'll just wavedash in and jab immediately, which I'll do if A) I think it will cover the tech-in-place option as well as the missed tech option, or B) if I think I can still chase their techroll even if the jab misses.

Of course, this strategy is completely busted if they just DI farther away than you can wavedash. Perfect wavedash is pretty much required out of dthrow on decent players.

On a completely unrelated topic, I just now figured out why I can't stop fastfalling my knees/stomps even if the fastfalling makes me land before the hitbox actually comes out. It's such a silly reason, too. It's just that it feels like those moves do more damage when I fastfall them, especially stomp. Hopefully I'll be able to break this habit now -.-'

 

[Wenbobular]

You're silly
Hitting with a stomp is probably the most demoralizing feeling in the world

Especially the stomp on their missed tech that bounces them up ... that's just like ... hnnnnng

 

[ShiftingShadows28]

Sometimes I'll just wavedash in and jab immediately, which I'll do if A) I think it will cover the tech-in-place option as well as the missed tech option, or B) if I think I can still chase their techroll even if the jab misses.

Of course, this strategy is completely busted if they just DI farther away than you can wavedash. Perfect wavedash is pretty much required out of dthrow on decent players.

Doing the automatic jab can be dangerous if they want to CC, I try this sometimes and get ***** by a CC->shine

 

[knightpraetor]

"
the 2007 method was run up knee in place but that only works on scared n00bs nowadays"

why doesn't this work anymore? feels risky if they have good moves out of shield, but it seems a lot stronger than just another grab

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Doing the automatic jab can be dangerous if they want to CC, I try this sometimes and get ***** by a CC->shine

The jab is escapable, so you can't be predictable with it or use it too often. It's just another option to set up a regrab if they don't expect it.

"
the 2007 method was run up knee in place but that only works on scared n00bs nowadays"

why doesn't this work anymore? feels risky if they have good moves out of shield, but it seems a lot stronger than just another grab

If the knee kills, combos, or gets you a regrab after the knee, I'd agree with you. Other than that, how is a knee better than a regrab that puts them in the exact same situation except with 6% more?