Brawlplusery Official Codeset 5.0 RC1 Discussion

[Alphatron]

Actually cleaned up the issue there with the assistance of Shanus and Magus. Holding A to first jab no longer works, but the timing on the jabs or holding A to complete them should be more or less unchanged.

Reading this, I feel at ease with the jab changes. Simple button presses for jabs should never feel awkward to perform in any fighting game. I don't think Paris has anything to worry about in this case.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

If all you can do is **** the changes, get out. It's an experimental build. Sure, since it's experimental, negative comments are welcome. But, ranting on and on about how much we fail and how we're crossing lines and not making the game deeper and **** like that is NOT welcome. Please tone your ranting down to constructive criticism.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I am being very constructive. I haven't said a single thing that could be viewed as being insulting or even as a rant by any reasonable person. I'm trying to be helpful. "If you want to help, tell us what we want to hear" isn't constructive, it's pandering which I won't do.

 

[Isatis]

I'm guessing that some of this discussion, and some from the character+ forums, mean that this build is actually NOT finished and ready to go whenever Bionic Sonic is told to add it to BrawlPlus.net?

I know it's not gonna be finished on time (I said soon, don't kill me!) but we're just waiting on a few people then it'll be released.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The thing is that we're not going to change every little request that you bring up, sfp. I mean, if you don't like something doesn't mean that the majority of the community doesn't like it as well.

We don't tailor to personal needs.

And I really don't see how you are being constructive. You took out of context EVERYthing I said.

 

[The_Guide]

Just popped in to say that SFP's comments are welcome by me. It never hurts to have different opinions in the mix.

SS, as has been said many times, please don't respond so angrily. So the guy disagrees with a lot of what we like about Brawl+; so what? There's nothing wrong with that, it's all personal opinion. We shouldn't just chase him out for giving us suggestions.

 

[The Cape]

I appreciate his comments even if I dont agree with all of them.

However, the ZSS D tilt I just discovered was changed 20 degrees instead of the proposted 10, which was a definite issue that got past me, and it was a good thing it was brought up. So thanks for that.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I know it's not gonna be finished on time (I said soon, don't kill me!) but we're just waiting on a few people then it'll be released.

*Bites lip hard* Well, I'll hope for the best. I'd rather not rush, but I'd also rather not have a crappy tournament on Sunday because of Ness and stuff. =[

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Curious, why was the decision made to change dtilt?

It wouldn't be so bad if dthrow wasn't nerfed in such a harsh way (launches the opponent to a height that is hard to use well).

I'll wait to see the newer one before I bust out the flamethrower, I'm just curious.

 

[The Cape]

The D tilt is one of her best sheild pressure moves and with the old angle of 80 it lead into a free uair no matter the DI. This being ZSS's best combo move its not the best thing to get a free setup. The lower angle that it was supposed to have (and will have in the next update) allows some DI so she has to at least chase, but should be able to catch the opponent with good spacing and timing.

The D throw was also edited slightly to have slightly less base and growth so that its more useful for a longer period. This was initially changed since the original KB on the D throw (and in the RC1 version) gave a 100% of the time follow up into uair, and again, best combo move.

Now this normally wouldnt be an issue except for the fact that ZSS has had her grabs sped up and they also grab out of the air now. This therefore creates and issue as things such as a charged neutral B to grab can only be avoided by rolling back. A good pressuring ZSS should have no issues landing a D tilt or a grab, and because of that neither should be a guaranteed followup into her best combo move.

What I did in the set with most of the throws was to make most of the floor bouncing D throws force techs and then make the U throws more combo oriented, in ZSS's case I just gave the D throw more of a range of DI by increasing its base KB, this keeps its combo potential without keeping it as the move with a free followup at every percent into at least a uair.

Make sense?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It does make sense, but I can't say I agree with your assessment of her grabs. They are better than in vBrawl but they're still really hard to land. I like that you can combo one from nair at low percents, though.

I also am kind of surprised you even see you mention neutral B, a move that is pretty much worthless in both vB and B+. It has about 1000 "come **** me frames" and if anything could use a buff in B+.

Down Smash is another move I was surprised to see nerfs to (not talking about the chains and such, those should have gone) because I talk to Snakeee pretty much every day and he's literally stopped using those moves in vBrawl because of how bad and slow they are. I'm new to B+ though, so maybe someone tell me what I missed. Does something combo into dsmash or something?

Last post on ZSS for a while, I promise.

 

[The Cape]

Well the D smash "nerf" was actually in the change over to plus, we think because of the hitlag change. The move still leads into most of its vBrawl setups, but just takes a tighter timing. I can land things like dsmash to F smash, sideB, fair, bair, uair, etc with very little effort.

As for the neutral B the move does a good deal of sheild stun and can be "silently" cancelled like Falco's laser with good timing on a short hop (at least I think it still can be). This creates a wall in front of you that you have to deal with. Trying to jump over it gets you intercepted by ZSS with a uair or U smash, rolling or sidestepping gets you grabbed and getting hit by it in block or your body can also lead to a free grab. Trying to attack it puts you in 'clank" status, which gives ZSS a good frame advantage. This therefore leads to her throw and therefore a good combo string, hence the change on the D throw.

ZSS is actually a very good character in Brawl+ due to her thriving in hitstun and it changes her playstyle dramatically from vBrawl (IMO) and she has been seen as a very solid character in many aspects.

 

[CloneHat]

I don't think Falco's laser damage nerf is longer necessary with stale moves.

 

[The Cape]

I don't think Falco's laser damage nerf is longer necessary with stale moves.

Stale moves was removed from the set.

 

[CloneHat]

Stale moves was removed from the set.

Oh, my. Why was this?

 

[MK26]

whoa wait what

get rid of nat 2 plox?

 

[Sterowent]

nat is cool though.

 

[JCaesar]

NADT is one of the essential changes of the set. It will not be removed.

Stale moves were removed because the way they currently function is less than ideal. Too many unintended consequences.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hey, Cape, I love the jigglypuff bair range increase, but you kinda made it the next snake utilt. Maybe shift the disjointed hitboxes inwards just a little bit? Some people seem to like this, though, so idk.


That's really my only beef with the current set. Can't wait for the new one!

 

[MK26]

...

cant blame a man for tryin'

 

[RPGsFTW]

Dammit. All this talk about things to be changed just makes me think I'll have to wait till after the upcoming tournament for this to come out. I really don't know if I can convince my TO, who's kinda strict, to use this if it isn't a nightly by then. Bawww, dammit, bawww.

I wish I could do something to help it be done.

I'd even like it if just the non-freezing version was added, just for a second, so I can, possibly, convince my TO to use it by then.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Stage > ModelData[100] > StagePosition > Bones >

All of the data there has it's XYZ coordinates in the translation tab.

This means that EVERYTHING there can be changed.

This includes, Spawn points, rebirth points, PT location, Blast zones, item spawn points, Camera control, and camera limits.

With this is mind, will you consider SSE stages for CP?

 

[JCaesar]

They are being considered, I assure you.

 

[GPDP]

Man, Brawl+ just gets better and better.

So we're just waiting for a few people to report in, and we'll have the new set?

Man, I can't wait. I've been away from the scene for a while, but I'll gladly get back into it to provide feedback.

 

[The Cape]

Its out:

http://brawlplus.net/download/

Under Beta

 

[GHNeko]

can we release an 5.01 RC1 with ness fixes and glitch fixes + new stages?

If we're gonna use RC1 for tourneys so nightlys can stay experimental, let's at least make it less dumb.

 

[The Cape]

Well the new Beta set is stable enough for tournies and should be used as such to gather data to possibly upgrade and fix it for the next official release.

 

[GHNeko]

idk there is that whole issue with nightlies and experiemental ****. mixing that with events where money is on the line isnt the greatest idea. we want to expierment with nightlies. but we dont want experimental **** with tourneys, ya dig?

data can be gathered multiple ways that dont involve tourneys imo. at least tourneys that have money on the line, tourneys like wifi ones are legit for nightly testing.

its not a matter of it being stable, but a matter of the content.

but idk that's just me.

obv

 

[The Cape]

In my personal opinion I feel that the new nightly got more testing (pre-release) and is a better tourney set than RC1 (even with fixing those things). But again, my opinion.

 

[GHNeko]

i can understand that though I have no opinion on if its better or not simply because I havnt even touched my console in a while due to other games, life issues, and projects.

i'm just saying, based on the reception of your set, it's obviously a good set (with a few superfluous changes, also based of reception) , but when classified as a nightly, it's deemed an experimental set in which should not be used for tourneys as it's subject to change on as little as a weekly basis to as long as a monthly basis with no guarantee of set period changes, meaning updates are sporadic and inconsistent. inconsistencies in sets that are used for tourneys is a no. 1 turn off to players, which is why we've lost players in the past that could of easily helped this project with feedback because of their skill (a few pros come to mind who enjoyed B+)

if we want this to be a tourney set, let's release it as two versions. one is an official and the other is a nightly, leave the official for tourneys and lets experiment our ***** off with the nightly.

unless we do that, patch RC1 to 5.01 RC1 with the intent of balance changes, glitch fixes, and stage additions and let GSH be the nightly of which we experiment on so the next official we release it's half bull**** half lack of testing.

and lets not keep nightlies and officials months apart. that was another reason why we had so many tourneys using nightlies as tourney sets, which was dumb.

 

[The Cape]

Thats a great idea, I like that.

Guess we should get this out as an official then if its agreed on?

 

[RPGsFTW]

Its out:

http://brawlplus.net/download/

Under Beta

Yesss. Thank you so much. Your set is definitely one of the best builds I've played on through out Brawl+'s life, for sure. I hope my TO uses this for Sunday now.

I'll be sure to watch the matches, definitely the finals, closely so I can make suggestions, if any, later.

 

[GHNeko]

if the public consensus and WBR agree super majority and NOT 50-50% or less in favor of saying "Yes" then i, personally, have no issue with it.

i still think NADT is nothing but filler tech skill. lol but hey. what do i know?

also, inb4kupogloating because i know we're gonna see it eventually in the future.

 

[GPDP]

Wait, so we're going back to vBrawl's decay system? I don't see either decay code on the text file.

 

[GHNeko]

Cape removed stale decay IIRC. Which is a good thing imo.

 

[GPDP]

But he didn't put in No Stale Moves. Which means we're back to vBrawl's system, no?

 

[Isatis]

>_<

Triangle...

 

[GHNeko]

....GG Bionic.

 

[Isatis]

cp?

Triangle.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

"- Bombs have less KBG"

Wait...am I really out of the loop or did Cape just say that he edited Link's bombs!? O_O