Brawlers hate us-What can we do?-READ FIRST POST!

[otg]

nobody should care what people play may it be ssbb or ssbm or even ssb64. If no one cared what people played none of this would be happning. So play what ever you want who cares. so stop flaming people you don't play the same game as you.

Did you read this thread at all? It's not about what you want to do for the FUN of it. It's Brawl is where the money is right now (albeit Easy Money), and that sucks because Melee is infinitely more superior as a competitive game. Yes, more people = bigger pots, but it saddens me that people's desire to play games only stems from money, and not from legitimate competition involving skills that separate Noobs from Pros.

 

[AlphaZealot]

So how many tournaments have you won in this easy game?

Claim one: Brawl isn't competitive
Claim two: Brawl is easy
Claim three: Some only play Brawl for easy money, and will quit when they start losing.

Claim three though, discredits claim one and two, for if it were easy, why would they ever lose? More importantly, why would you ever quit? Quitting when you start losing? Wouldn't that mean you quit because the game was to competitive?

 

[Pink Reaper]

I made $15 by spamming the **** out of some random kid with my Tink the other day in a MM. Does that count?

 

[Reaver197]

Wait, uh, shouldn't we be discussing how to have, at the very least, a peaceful equilibrium with Brawl and its fans, not which one is better?

Plus, I don't know if this what brought up yet at all, but have we also thought about how to attract new Melee players if we go with a dual-game set-up? I imagine most new people will be brought into the loop by Brawl, and then we'd have to figure out how to expose them and help them determine if they would also like to play Melee or not.

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

I love Brawl...just hallenge them to a game of Melee if they're in your place...?

 

[Pink Reaper]

So how many tournaments have you won in this easy game?

Claim one: Brawl isn't competitive
Claim two: Brawl is easy
Claim three: Some only play Brawl for easy money, and will quit when they start losing.

Claim three though, discredits claim one and two, for if it were easy, why would they ever lose? More importantly, why would you ever quit? Quitting when you start losing? Wouldn't that mean you quit because the game was to competitive?

Brawl IS easy, thats why we have random people like Futile and Bardull coming out of no where and ranking #1 on game battles and winning huge tournaments. And its not just them, you can look at any random tournament results and find high ranking randoms everywhere. The "Current" skill cap is way low on Brawl, which is why there has been a huge surge in the number of people who have reached the "Could win a big tournament" skill level. I say "Current" because Im sure someone is going to say "Well, it will eventually get higher" which is a claim you cant actually make for the same reason I can't claim that it will always be where it is now. However, with the restrictions placed on the game its highly unlikely the game will grow very far passed where it is now.

Also, having everyone on the same level =/= competitiveness. Everyone has an equal chance of winning at Mario Party but that doesn't make it competitive.

 

[AlphaZealot]

People said that a month ago, two months ago, three months ago, and the game has already progressed quite a bit and continues to progress.

Its a new game, there will be new people who are really good, thats what happens when new games come out. By your logic, when Ken won TG4, it proved that Melee was shallow, because any random could win. When Mango placed high at EVO, it proved that Melee was shallow 6 years after it was released, because any random could place high. The truth is though, thats awful logic, I guarantee if you ask DSF, he will tell you Futile is really good. Do you even know who Futile plays as? WARIO.

People are good when they are good, its that simple, and when a new game is released, the skill levels of everyone are closer because everyone has to learn the new medium, so its no surprise that new faces appear, because these new players have the opportunity to grow with a fresh game, instead of coming in 5 years after a game is released and having to learn everything at once, they instead learn it in the same steps and pace that everyone else is learning it.

However, the best way to refute your argument is quite simple, go out to a tournament and prove how easy it is by winning it.

 

[otg]

So how many tournaments have you won in this easy game?

Claim one: Brawl isn't competitive
Claim two: Brawl is easy
Claim three: Some only play Brawl for easy money, and will quit when they start losing.

Claim three though, discredits claim one and two, for if it were easy, why would they ever lose? More importantly, why would you ever quit? Quitting when you start losing? Wouldn't that mean you quit because the game was to competitive?

It's easy in comparison to Melee. How are you going to even argue that? I made this claim before and I'll make it again: There is a difference between something having competitive merit, and competition. I compete with my friends in Mario Party, doesn't mean I'm going to invest my time and money into it. And yes, many people have switched Brawl because it's where a majority of Noobs are right now, and yes they are easy money.

As for how many tournaments have I won? Only 1, it was local and it was a crew battle and yes we won. The whole thing took about 6 hours and there were only 5 teams. It took way to long, was boring to watch and was completely uneventful. So after that tourney I decided to stop wasting my time, it gets too boring too quickly.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Brawl is not Melee 2.0, no comparing them

And yes I know who Futile plays, he's your favorite person to bring up everywhere forever. And Im not saying he's not good, Im not saying Bardull is not good, Im saying its become too easy to become good. Gah, I need more time for this post, but unfortunately I have to go to work

/work johns

 

[th0rn]

He is saying the game is easy, and you're telling him to prove it by winning a tourney, correct?

By saying the game is easy, anyone can play it... and almost any random scrub can pick up the game and beat him because of the game being too easy.

Perhaps he was saying people are quitting not because it is too competitive, but because it's too easy and not competitive.

 

[AlphaZealot]

It's easy in comparison to Melee. How are you going to even argue that? I

Its less technical than Melee. Less technical =/= easy. Everyone thought Halo 3 was easy, yet FB stomped on the competition. Sure, its easier to do things in Halo 3, that doesn't stop the game from being hard or competitive, because players still think, its still about the decisions players make. Just like Brawl.

And yea, Futile is great cause he is so creative and goes against the Meta/Snake grain that everyone likes to say anyone can pick up and win everything. 1 month ago, no one would have thought Wario would be winning California tournaments, espcially when DSF was on his winning streak. The statement that makes about how undeveloped the metagame currently is cannot be understated.

 

[th0rn]

I hate when people make comparisons with smash to halo.

Halo 2/halo3 is completely different from melee/brawl. Halo 3 itself still takes tremendous amount of BR skill and teamwork let alone taking out the silly BXR and adding leading with the BR. If anything the game halo3 takes MORE skill with the BR and the sniper (less auto aim).... and FB stomped the competition? lollll last time i checked they went 0-3 by a newer team to the halo scene. Don't compare such a fast-paced, tech skilled, competitive game like Halo to a stinky party game like brawl where 90% good players use snake and f-tilt out of shield constantly.

You could compare halo to smash if they took out all the guns in halo 3 and made it rocket launchers only.

 

[otg]

Its less technical than Melee. Less technical =/= easy.

1. Tech Skill should be rewarded, not shunned.
2. Tech skill separates nOObs from beginners.
3. The Tech skill that was taken out in Melee is now Automatic in Brawl, WTF?

I would actually disagree with you, a game that's very technical is typically a lot harder to play well than one without it (Ie: MvC2). In Melee there were things to work towards to get better at like mastering the technical aspects, character aspects, DI patterns. Brawl's style of Hit and run doesn't appeal to me, and I hate camping because it's frustrating and isn't fun for me. Most of my friends who like Brawl play campy in EVERY game possible. That isn't an exaggeration either.

Brawl is different because of it's physics engine where most of my biggest problems with it lie. I wouldn't have a problem with Brawl (although I would still probably prefer Melee) if it had SOME form of hit stun. Even a little bit. I know combo's don't make the game deep, but to pull them off fluently requires skill and time to master.

 

[Zodiac]

So how many tournaments have you won in this easy game?

Claim one: Brawl isn't competitive
Claim two: Brawl is easy
Claim three: Some only play Brawl for easy money, and will quit when they start losing.

Claim three though, discredits claim one and two, for if it were easy, why would they ever lose? More importantly, why would you ever quit? Quitting when you start losing? Wouldn't that mean you quit because the game was to competitive?

All three claims are true, Brawl is easy is easier than than melee, its easier thean 64, its just easy to be good, initially, no on said it didnt involve skill(Alright IDIOTS said that) but ya know, the skill cap is really low.

Anyway, you just pointed out three key points of why people dont play it.

People said that a month ago, two months ago, three months ago, and the game has already progressed quite a bit and continues to progress.

Its a new game, there will be new people who are really good, thats what happens when new games come out. By your logic, when Ken won TG4, it proved that Melee was shallow, because any random could win. When Mango placed high at EVO, it proved that Melee was shallow 6 years after it was released, because any random could place high. The truth is though, thats awful logic, I guarantee if you ask DSF, he will tell you Futile is really good. Do you even know who Futile plays as? WARIO.

People are good when they are good, its that simple, and when a new game is released, the skill levels of everyone are closer because everyone has to learn the new medium, so its no surprise that new faces appear, because these new players have the opportunity to grow with a fresh game, instead of coming in 5 years after a game is released and having to learn everything at once, they instead learn it in the same steps and pace that everyone else is learning it.

However, the best way to refute your argument is quite simple, go out to a tournament and prove how easy it is by winning it.

Thats pretty idiotic reasoning on our reasoning. random scrubs/players cannot just go beat KDJ or PChris in brawl, by YOUR logic melee is shallow because pc came of nowhere in 06 and beat ken in new york. this claim is pure bs, Pc is good, any "random" that wins a tournament is good. but the fact remains, If I fought KDJ in melee, I would get four stocked and give him maybe 30%. If I played KDJ in brawl, I would get two stocked and give him 100% +.

Its like this.

Dmstudios, great melee pro, base level pro, He two stocked me consistently in melee and I won every once and a while.

In Brawl we go even, I win half of the matches, he wins half of the matches. get it? Skill cap/gap = low

@ OTG/Alpha Zealot- Tech skill separates the noobs/beginners from the competitive crowd that wants to become pros. What separates the competitive crowd that are good with tech skill from the pro's is is something entirely different you cant actually grasp until you get four stocked by a pro or start reaching pro status. (Its not just mind games)

 

[Zodiac]

Grr sorry 10 char

 

[Banks]

The best brawl players play like flaming homos, and its funny to watch. ftilt, sheild, camp etc.

They even admit it too, talk to cort about his playstyle sometime.

The best people just camp and spam at a higher level, they can predict your spamming and counter camp it. SO DEEP

 

[Zodiac]

The best brawl players play like flaming homos, and its funny to watch. ftilt, sheild, camp etc.

They even admit it too, talk to cort about his playstyle sometime.

The best people just camp and spam at a higher level, they can predict your spamming and counter camp it. SO DEEP

Yea, that is just about the jist of brawl

 

[AlphaZealot]

Thats pretty idiotic reasoning on our reasoning. random scrubs/players cannot just go beat KDJ or PChris in brawl, by YOUR logic melee is shallow because pc came of nowhere in 06 and beat ken in new york. this claim is pure bs, Pc is good, any "random" that wins a tournament is good. but the fact remains, If I fought KDJ in melee, I would get four stocked and give him maybe 30%. If I played KDJ in brawl, I would get two stocked and give him 100% +.

I'm confused by this. Your making the exact point I'm making, that good players will win, they will win in Brawl and they won in Melee.

Dmstudios, great melee pro, base level pro, He two stocked me consistently in melee and I won every once and a while.

In Brawl we go even, I win half of the matches, he wins half of the matches. get it? Skill cap/gap = low

Melee and Brawl are very different games. Everyone will take awhile to learn it, including people who were really good in Melee. You completely missed the point I had made earlier. In Melee, coming in at 2006 meant you had to adapt to all the knowledge the community had from all the years prior, learning those things take time, which is why the skill gaps were so prevelant. In Brawl, as a fresh game, there is a lot for everyone to learn, and no one knows everything yet (I learned something new today that is really useful, actually), so, a new players coming in gets to develop with the rest of the community and he won't be substantially behind because there are only a few months of playing to base things on. In a year, if a new player comes in, he will have to learn everything that everyone else who has been playing already knows, just like in Melee, and that player will not be able to compete in Brawl until he learns everything, just like in Melee. Players today would stomp players from the February. Essentially, you just made a comparison of people with equal amounts of time and experience with a game, and for some reason your upset because you guys are evenly matched.

 

[Ryazan]

Is everyone here just dissing Brawl because they don't have it and are lying about having it so they look cool? Because that is just pathetic.

 

[Zodiac]

Alpha Zealot, what I meant was that your logic about our logic was incorrect.

 

[Banks]

Is everyone here just dissing Brawl because they don't have it and are lying about having it so they look cool? Because that is just pathetic.

no way you joined in may 2008 because you have wisdom beyond your years

 

[Ryazan]

Just because you're an insecure *** who cries himself to sleep because his mommy won't buy Brawl for him doesn't mean you can be sarcastic and try to make everyone think you know what you're talking about. It just won't work, *******. Get that through your head. You're just upset because you were stupid enough to main Pichu in Melee and Sakurai was smart enough to ditch him.

 

[otg]

Just because you're an insecure *** who cries himself to sleep because his mommy won't buy Brawl for him doesn't mean you can be sarcastic and try to make everyone think you know what you're talking about. It just won't work, *******. Get that through your head. You're just upset because you were stupid enough to main Pichu in Melee and Sakurai was smart enough to ditch him.

What? How could you even present this as a legitimate argument? Get off this thread.

 

[BIG C]

So how many tournaments have you won in this easy game?

Claim one: Brawl isn't competitive
Claim two: Brawl is easy
Claim three: Some only play Brawl for easy money, and will quit when they start losing.

Claim three though, discredits claim one and two, for if it were easy, why would they ever lose? More importantly, why would you ever quit? Quitting when you start losing? Wouldn't that mean you quit because the game was to competitive?

Claim one: Every game is competitive. NO MATTER WHAT. if someone can lose and someone can win it's competitive that's why im gonna make TIE: a game of only ties no winning or losing because winning is for losers

Claim two: It is, no johnz.

Claim three: Zjiin started out gettin top 3 at places thought the game was boring stopped making money no reason to play a crappy game and not win money when you could play a better game and not win money.

 

[Ryazan]

What? How could you even present this as a legitimate argument? Get off this thread.

I'm sorry. I'm usually much more polite. Sarcasm just annoys the hell out of me.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

No, im not. I worried that staying one big community will though.

So this is about creating a SWF community where everyone chooses melee for competition.

Claim one: Every game is competitive. NO MATTER WHAT. if someone can lose and someone can win it's competitive that's why im gonna make TIE: a game of only ties no winning or losing because winning is for losers

But the competitive aspect of one thing can contain much more depth and be more enjoyable than the competitive aspect of another. Can it not?

Is everyone here just dissing Brawl because they don't have it and are lying about having it so they look cool? Because that is just pathetic.

No, not everyone is doing that. We're not that bad. We've played Brawl and we simply don't care for it as much as melee.

 

[Banks]

Just because you're an insecure *** who cries himself to sleep because his mommy won't buy Brawl for him doesn't mean you can be sarcastic and try to make everyone think you know what you're talking about. It just won't work, *******. Get that through your head. You're just upset because you were stupid enough to main Pichu in Melee and Sakurai was smart enough to ditch him.

you are quite obviously a complete noob who has no concept of the differences between brawl and melee. I own the game actually and I don't need my mommy to buy me anything. go back to school.

 

[Ryazan]

And another thing: Why do you think all Brawlers hate you guys? Making generalizations is one of the dumbest acts we are capable of performing. I don't hate Melee-ers, I just hate Melee-ers that hate Brawlers. I probably speak for the majority of the Brawler community.

 

[BIG C]

So this is about creating a SWF community where everyone chooses melee for competition.



But the competitive aspect of one thing can contain much more depth and be more enjoyable than the competitive aspect of another. Can it not?



No, not everyone is doing that. We're not that bad. We've played Brawl and we simply don't care for it as much as melee.

heh i wasn't defending brawl in any form SNJ I'm just saying that any game where you can win is competitive I truthfully don't think Brawl should be the competitive standard. Melee to me is definitely a better competitive game. Brawl is fun to play with your friends.

 

[TheGlitchMaster]

I now know why i hate playing people online: PEOPLE WHO SUCK AND DO STUPID THINGS WIN MATCHES. I can combo well with olimar, but as soon as i'm done, i can get stuck in Pit's Side-B and get more damage then i dished out. It's disgusting.

 

[Miharu]

And another thing: Why do you think all Brawlers hate you guys? Making generalizations is one of the dumbest acts we are capable of performing. I don't hate Melee-ers, I just hate Melee-ers that hate Brawlers. I probably speak for the majority of the Brawler community.

Get your immature **** out of this thread. "I only hate ____ because they hate us"; don't need kind of ****ing joke of an argument in here.

If you haven't noticed yet, it's morons like yourself who incite said flames anyways.

Onto the topic at hand, I still don't see how the argument can be made that Brawl is more competitive than Melee is/was. The physics and mechanics of Brawl itself almost seek to prevent a "true" competitive atmosphere. Sure, you can argue that camping, and the various strategies that revolve around it are "competitive"; which they are to a certain extent. However, Brawl simply has less depth, which is directly caused by a fewer number of options available to a player as a whole.

tl;dr Brawl doesn't really lend itself to being as "good" a competitive game as many fighters (or otherwise) out there, Melee included.

 

[Ryazan]

Ok, this is just getting ridiculous. I only lashed out at banks because i hate corrosive sarcasm. I never said anything bad to anyone else. I was just politely wondering why you guys think we hate you. But for some reason, none of you are capable of being anything but jerks.

 

[debaser]

But for some reason, none of you are capable of being anything but jerks.

we realize not ALL brawlers hate us, but you can't blame us for thinking so sometimes when people come up in here saying **** like this

 

[Xyro77]

Just leave you sinking ship that is melee and play brawl.

 

[debaser]

and obnoxious sig mcgavin up there isn't helping either

 

[otg]

Just leave you sinking ship that is melee and play brawl.

Melee a sinking ship? I laugh at the idea. Street Fighter II, MvC2, and many other older games continue to be played competitively even though other 'fighting' games have come out. I don't see why smash can't be the same.

I think one of the biggest problems amongst the Brawl community is that many of the members are new to the competitive scene, assume that Brawl will be as competitive as Melee was, and also assume that Melee is done. Have some perspective here people, you're trying to FORCE this game to be competitive, instead of it being natural like Melee. This incarnation of smash is more of a party game than ever before, but we all get flamed the second we try to raise our opinions.

Also, to Ryazan: you're response to banks was completely immature and uncalled for. No one will respond if you're going to rant and rave in that way.

 

[Xyro77]

Melee a sinking ship? I laugh at the idea. Street Fighter II, MvC2, and many other older games continue to be played competitively even though other 'fighting' games have come out. I don't see why smash can't be the same.

I think one of the biggest problems amongst the Brawl community is that many of the members are new to the competitive scene, assume that Brawl will be as competitive as Melee was, and also assume that Melee is done. Have some perspective here people, you're trying to FORCE this game to be competitive, instead of it being natural like Melee. This incarnation of smash is more of a party game than ever before, but we all get flamed the second we try to raise our opinions.

Also, to Ryazan: you're response to banks was completely immature and uncalled for. No one will respond if you're going to rant and rave in that way.

You cant compare marvel,gg,sf,snk.....ect to smash. its too far different.

Melee is a sinking ship. Look at the stats, my boy.

 

[Miharu]

You cant compare marvel,gg,sf,snk.....ect to smash. its too far different.

Melee is a sinking ship. Look at the stats, my boy.

They're games. It's not as if we're comparing gameplay between the various games; he's just making a point that older games are still played in major tournaments.

 

[Zodiac]

I swear people read the first post.

 

[Tr0n]

Melee is still pretty active in the UK, I mean some have had their Wii's chipped and stuff but the melee scene is still there... for now.
In my opinion hosting tournaments is really the only way to keep it alive right now, which will be hard. I hope I don't sound like a hypocrite here, as I'm pretty new to the tournament scene, but as long as ppl do that, or at least organise get togethers with friends, which is often what we do, then it's a start.