Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

[ValTroX]

Well guys, my opinion on the stage discussion is that, if we have a completely useless stage, why not change it a little and make it playable, I mean, the stage is on the list, since we can't get it out of there, why not just make it playable, even if it's similar to other stages, it still will be another thing we can play, and a small difference will be notable. If you guys can work on PS1, please freeze it on water form with melee windmill, or just make it so it can transform ONLY into grass and water(the only forms without wall). I think if that even if you leave it transforming into all stages and fix the windmill, it has a very solid CP chance.
EDIT: If wee get that Big Blue+, it's a better idea to freeze Castle Siege in the first form

 

[FrozenHobo]

please god no

itll take forever to locate the model data for that one part

dont make me torture myself, neko

EDIT: 111 vertices
a hundred and eleven
all contained in 2 objects
so i have no clue where to start, let alone finish
i best be gettin paid for this

how about we get you laid?

but seriously....

how about you try the second object (it maybe split up by 1-1 and 1-2). this could be a fantastic stage edit. isn't that enough?

 

[MK26]

how about we get you laid?

but seriously....

how about you try the second object (it maybe split up by 1-1 and 1-2). this could be a fantastic stage edit. isn't that enough?

i was gonna say 'gettin paid or gettin laid' but i thought that was an unnecessary rhyme

and it isnt split between 1-1 and 1-2, they have completely different files

and i know it could be fantastical, and i know i can do it

its just that itd take forever

itd be so much easier if i could just write a program thatd decipher the file automagically

instead of making me go hex editor --> word doc --> excel spreadsheet
with lots of formatting changes and stuff in between

 

[SaltyKracka]

A liberal TO could run a tourney with 20 legal stages in singles/doubles. A conservative TO could stick to what is safest.

I don't see Norfair on that list, so that's nowhere near liberal.

 

[Alphatron]

since neko was excited about the progress of this, i'll just put this here. feel free to say whatever (i know most of you think its stupid anyway):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDIk6TSz00Q

This...actually looks pretty good. I noticed a camera issue, but nothing that can't be fixed. Anything that wasn't the Falcon flyer didn't really play a huge role in the course of the battle either.

Sadly for me though, the Falcon Flyer SSE stage has spoiled me.

 

[Mit]

Might be off-topic a bit, but can anyone tell me where I can get that SSE Jungle stage? IIRC the one you all are using is edited from the original release, so that the blast zones aren't humongous.

Is it contained in a codeset somewhere?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Might be off-topic a bit, but can anyone tell me where I can get that SSE Jungle stage? IIRC the one you all are using is edited from the original release, so that the blast zones aren't humongous.

Is it contained in a codeset somewhere?

brawlplus.net

check under downloads -> GSH2 -> pacs

 

[Mit]

brawlplus.net

check under downloads -> GSH2 -> pacs

Ah, thanks. I didn't notice the beta part there.

 

[FrozenHobo]

these are just the ramblings of a very tired man, but here's an idea i just had:

YI (melee):

larger side boundaries w/ no blocks over the middle gap. everything past the gap on the right effectively removed.

 

[Alphatron]

It works better than current melee island. Having the higher ground doesn't equate to having the advantage in a smash game though. It's the opposite. Obi Wan lied.

How about Rumble Falls with no spikes/speedup?

 

[Slashy]

Yoshi's Island isn't that broken, it doesn't need THAT many changes.

 

[Revven]

Uhh you're wrong Slashy, it is that broken.

Let's list what's wrong with the stage:

1) Middle blocks in the pit allow for easy planking with characters like Marth and MK who have good Up Bs that will autosweetspot due to hitting the blocks. Not to mention, both have really ****ing good Uairs too to just plank with effortlessly.

2) Right hill side has the epic blastzone camping, except instead of camping at the top, some people prefer to throw someone up there and keep doing so until they reach the blastzone. It also allows for silly *** combos up the hill too due to traction.

3) The left and right blocks on each side have a small temple syndrome where if you're under them or get knocked into them in general, you can tech them effortlessly and live for HIGH, HIGH %s, in the 200s at least.

4) Small boundaries on the left side and ceiling (not huge deals but, they are there)

And... yeah that's it. The big 3 are the main problems with the stage and why I don't, personally, play it in Brawl OR Melee (Melee was silly with up the hill madness). The stage isn't really that legal right now with all the symptoms it has.

 

[GHNeko]

1 and 3 are pretty much ***** by slowing down the stage to 33%, or by freezing the stage if you really want to do that.

Autosweetspotting only works while the block is not spinning. So even if you DO slow down the stage, you can't really plank that well, and it's less risky to go after them because of how the hole is designed.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Honestly, that version of Yoshi's doesn't look fun to me at all. That doesn't fit what I'd call viable.

And, Neko, by slowing down Yoshi's Island 33%, do you mean the speed at which the block come back to their solid state after being hit, because if not, that makes no sense, especially when the stage doesn't move.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, the current form of YI:M isn't viable anyway, so its not like you're loosing a great stage anyway. at leats with this fix it eliminates the walk off/pit but keeps at least a descent fighting area. keep in mind, with BBox that little island can be a lot bigger than in vYI:M so t won't be a cramped area (not that its that small of an area to begin with).

the pint of stage hacking is to fix problems with stages that make them broken/unplayable. in this case you eliminate the primary problem areas while keeping a unique fighting area.



side note: i've removed the center area/ice platform on the right of the summit, frozen it, and am now trying to move the platforms into a better layout. not sure what i'll get, but i can at least say i tried.

 

[GHNeko]

Honestly, that version of Yoshi's doesn't look fun to me at all. That doesn't fit what I'd call viable.

And, Neko, by slowing down Yoshi's Island 33%, do you mean the speed at which the block come back to their solid state after being hit, because if not, that makes no sense, especially when the stage doesn't move.

Yes the speed of how long til the block go back to normal.

Also, looking fun != viable. If it works. it works. ya know. It'd be a unique stage imo.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ok, here's an idea of what the summit will look like:

keep in mind the center part is walk through now, but when i'm done it will be just an image in the wall and not actually be sticking out (gotta make ti look nice ). additionally, the platform on the left will be up permanently and the ice platform on the right is gone permanently. the stage will be frozen in this initial position. once this is done, i'll hand it off to someone who understands hex editors so they can make the ledges grabbable.

additionally, i may decide to move up the base so the platforms are closer to the ground. need to see how this looks in-game, though.


as for YI:M+, it will pretty much be this but CONSIDERABLY larger:

 

[GHNeko]

FrozenHobo you're amazing.

 

[Shadic]

I actually really like the Yoshi's IslandM idea. As long as all collision crap for the other piece is removed, and the boundaries are fixed, of course.

And like you said, a size increase.

 

[Alphatron]

Seeing this development is making me even more interested in seeing what can be done with New Pork.

Like, I put good music on that stage...

 

[SaltyKracka]

Choro, you're amazing.

10orgasms.

 

[The Cape]

Can anyone make me grass stage only PS1 with better ledges?

 

[Slashy]

What's wrong with the stage changing? Can't players adapt to different stages?

 

[Team Giza]

keep in mind the center part is walk through now, but when i'm done it will be just an image in the wall and not actually be sticking out (gotta make ti look nice ). additionally, the platform on the left will be up permanently and the ice platform on the right is gone permanently. the stage will be frozen in this initial position. once this is done, i'll hand it off to someone who understands hex editors so they can make the ledges grabbable.

Is it necessary to make it stuck in its initial position? I think it would be better to make it so the stage continued to move as long as it was possible to get rid of the gravity effects and nerf the fish.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Is it necessary to make it stuck in its initial position? I think it would be better to make it so the stage continued to move as long as it was possible to get rid of the gravity effects and nerf the fish.

1) i don't think i can remove the gravity effect

2) pretty sure i can't remove the fish (it spawns when people hit the water so changing its position won't get rid of it)

3) you really don't want it to move. REALLY. i tried it. the mountain winds up covering the entire playing field killing everybody... multiple times... i think it may take longer to reach the water, even. its not good.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Can anyone make me grass stage only PS1 with better ledges?

^This.

And that Summit looks like it'd be really cool. Can't wait to see it finished.

Also, by fun, I meant a decent competitive stage. It looks very cramped with the angled pipe right next to the blocks. And being cramped near a platform reminds me of the poor layout that is Frigate Orpheon flipped. It's too close to the ground for comfort, and leaves many approaches from the platform above harder to do.

PTAD+?

Has frozen first part of Castle Siege only been talked about more, for the next build?

 

[VietGeek]

It'll be quite helpful if someone knew how to remove model data without freezing the game, or rather, how to correctly remove things from stages.

Also replacing the neutral PSI with its grass formation (replaced neutral model data (.brres) with grass version and replaced neutral stageposition data with the grass version made the first transformation look like the grass version, but the collision data doesn't turn out right (no platforms, no running river, just a glitchy flat stage).

 

[MK26]

i can do stage position data

its just the models that arent working for me

 

[GHNeko]

i think its funny that PTAD+ is probably the stage that's been desired for the longest and yet barely any progress has been made.

Fhobo. Wouldnt freezing the stage + your mods help it at all?

 

[Alphatron]

You could freeze it so that its a flat unmoving platform on a still racetrack.

Yeah...Unless we figure out how to get moving/transforming stages to start off somewhere aside from the original location, a few ideas will be a bit tough.

Or is it possible to freeze stages at a set point in the match?

 

[FrozenHobo]

i don't think you can freeze at specific points. we may be able to look at moving the wall out of the way though. give me the pac for the current version and i'll take a look.

 

[FrozenHobo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_wOCPM6HmE

you can orgasm now.

it actually took me less time than i thought it would. got a little caught at one point, but then i realized i wasn't using the latest version of BBox and that fixed everything.

thanks MK26 (Maestrooo) for the ledges fix.


i'll post the pac when i get done making it look pretty.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I kind of wish that there was a way to keep the working clouds. Also, do the ice still make you slide? One can't really tell since ICs don't slide on ice. If they don't anymore, then I think that it should still be slippery, since I don't think it'll cause that much of a problem. The point of this stage is for a unique counterpick, so if it isn't slippery, it's not really that much different than your run-of-the-mill stage (there're already plenty of these starter-like stages). With the bottom one slippery, one will be able to use it in ways that'll differentiate it from other stages, or choose to rely more on the platforms if they don't want the lower friction.

 

[The Cape]

So I need that Pokemon Stadium 1 stage.

Anyone wanna be my hero?

 

[GHNeko]

I kind of wish that there was a way to keep the working clouds. Also, do the ice still make you slide? One can't really tell since ICs don't slide on ice. If they don't anymore, then I think that it should still be slippery, since I don't think it'll cause that much of a problem. The point of this stage is for a unique counterpick, so if it isn't slippery, it's not really that much different than your run-of-the-mill stage (there're already plenty of these starter-like stages). With the bottom one slippery, one will be able to use it in ways that'll differentiate it from other stages, or choose to rely more on the platforms if they don't want the lower friction.

Imagine the main stage with low levels of sliding, and the platforms with a slightly lower level.

Edge cancel heaven.

 

[MK26]

So I need that Pokemon Stadium 1 stage.

Anyone wanna be my hero?

Somebody test this: http://www.mediafire.com/?rzgnnlz0jyy

No guarantees, but if you managed to replace the model without a hitch and just needed teh collision data added, this'll do.

EDIT: if this works, i can also add better ledges, but they'll stay invisible unless someone else mods the model too

As for the ice, I doubt slipperiness can be edited individually. There's probably a master traction control somewhere in a common pac

 

[RPGsFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_wOCPM6HmE

you can orgasm now.

What a ****ing champion.

I'm glad that someone is working on stages at the moment, and they seem to be pretty good too. The more CPs, made out of terrible stages, the better!

 

[FrozenHobo]

Somebody test this: http://www.mediafire.com/?rzgnnlz0jyy

No guarantees, but if you managed to replace the model without a hitch and just needed teh collision data added, this'll do.

so this is a PSI pac, but only the collisions have been changed? do i need to go in and swap the stage models?

As for the ice, I doubt slipperiness can be edited individually. There's probably a master traction control somewhere in a common pac

well, even a universal decrease/addition would be fine, though i remember in that guide that the slippery-ness of a plane lies in the effects. if all of the platforms share a common plane (i.e. editing one effects the others) then thats perfect. in the meantime i can figure out the placement for the platforms so when you do get it to work its just a simple transfer process.



additionally, i'm having some difficulty figuring out how to fully remove the right side of YI:M. right now i have the stage focused on the pipes with what would be appropriate death boundaries, though the existence of the right side gives it a gap -> walk off effect which doesn't really work.

in the meantime, i am considering taking the blocks and stacking them in a "wall" of sorts on the other side of the pit. this... isn't an ideal fix. however, it may be the only fix until i can determine how to remove the other side.


edit: i also think i've figured out why i was having trouble modifying the size of certain object. that said, Maestrooo, you can expect your fixed up WWR tomorrow. Additionally, i should also have a stretched out YI:M Pipes then too (how god intended).

turns out its a good idea to have the latest version of a program before you start... :-[

 

[MK26]

no, i replaced the stage model...its just that im not sure whether a straight replacement is all that i need

and i can check the effect files, but i dont think custom ice traction is possible atm

 

[GHNeko]

liberal staaaaage list.

i see summit+ to be a legit CP.