Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

[MK26]

yeah, regardless of the traction, i cna see summit+ working

speaking of which, has anybody tested Stadium 1+? Not that we need it, but...

 

[FrozenHobo]

my work with BBox today made me realize that NPC may be salvageable after all. if each floating block has a separate bone then we can move them into any structure we want (like shans' idea) as well as fix the death boundaries using BBox:

it could actually be very feasible.







i wonder what 75m looks like in BBox....

 

[GHNeko]

Would it keep the Chimera? As is, i don't feel much for it.

 

[bobson]

Please keep the Chimera if possible. Combos into the Chimera are the best thing about that stage.

 

[[TSON]]

Move it, along with the limo, to the center of the stage (that's the most iconic part) and we're good.

And the chimera covers too much of the stage to be allowed. You'd literally be forced to aircamp it unless we can find some way to framespeed mod it.

 

[GHNeko]

The limo could fly under stage, and hopefully, be worked onto a timer ala Jungle Japes.

 

[Shadic]

my work with BBox today made me realize that NPC may be salvageable after all. if each floating block has a separate bone then we can move them into any structure we want (like shans' idea) as well as fix the death boundaries using BBox:

Erm. Unless you're abbreviating my name weird, it wasn't Shanus' idea. >_>

Limo: Sure, make it cruise at the bottom every once in a while.
Chimera: If so, you're gonna have to significantly slow down the intro shine, or whatever. Doesn't it appear pretty quickly? And it's an insta stock-loss, so it really shouldn't be popping up very quickly.

 

[fortwaffles]

Ultimate Chimara and I are buds. we cool. We always hang out at the park and stuff. :3

 

[Revven]

What's wrong with the stage changing? Can't players adapt to different stages?

If by adapting you mean camping behind then tree on the Fire stage, camping behind the giant rock on the Ground stage, or camping behind the Windmill on the Water stage then yes. Otherwise, those three transformations don't really add anything other than 30 seconds of PRO CAMPING. Neither side will approach once they get into that situation. And while it's only for 30 seconds, it still holds up the match a lot.

Adapting to stages in tournaments is taking advantage of the gayest **** on the stage you're playing on in order to win. If there's nothing to abuse (like Smashville) then the match typically goes over fine. PS1 just inhibits outright camping on three of its four transformations. And it's stupid because it benefits ANY character because it's easily taken advantage of.

 

[Veril]

Why not keep the Chimera? Its a casual stage regardless. Teching the Chimera hits = amazingly snazzy.

 

[GHNeko]

The Chimera is fine as long as it gets a super nerf in power and ko ability. It takes a good while in frames for the hitbox of the Chimera to come out. Try dodging it yourself. You can also avoid it by teching if you're knocked to the ground right in front of it. :V

 

[FrozenHobo]

Erm. Unless you're abbreviating my name weird, it wasn't Shanus' idea. >_>

Limo: Sure, make it cruise at the bottom every once in a while.
Chimera: If so, you're gonna have to significantly slow down the intro shine, or whatever. Doesn't it appear pretty quickly? And it's an insta stock-loss, so it really shouldn't be popping up very quickly.

lmao my bad, dude, my bad.

as for the chimera, unless you freeze the stag it should still show up, but i don't know how it would react with the platforms moved. i'll try it out once i finish up Summit+ and the smaller WWR.

i'll also take a look at PS1, but no promises yet.

 

[MK26]

i know how to fix the melee windmill, but it cant be done with the file replacement

ive also got a fix for skyworld ready, but im waiting on dant for an edit to the skyworld+ code

 

[VietGeek]

no, i replaced the stage model...its just that im not sure whether a straight replacement is all that i need

and i can check the effect files, but i dont think custom ice traction is possible atm

no collision data at all =/

i tried a straight up model swap and stgposition export (who knew all the forms had their own fight start spawn points) and the platform collisions did not port over.

Then I tried to swap all the forms w/ just grass. It looked like it worked, but it had the collision data of the Rock transformation (O_o).

Also the little stream on the grass stage doesn't work, but that was to be expected. =/

 

[Alphatron]

i know how to fix the melee windmill, but it cant be done with the file replacement

ive also got a fix for skyworld ready, but im waiting on dant for an edit to the skyworld+ code

Why can't it be done with file replacement? Can it be done through gct methods?

Also, I see no point in nerfing the chimera.

 

[GHNeko]

Why can't it be done with file replacement? Can it be done through gct methods?

Also, I see no point in nerfing the chimera.

Because 1 Hit KO hazards are dumb.

 

[Alphatron]

Because 1 Hit KO hazards are dumb.

Well, if NPC+, whatever its final result may be, actually makes the stage list, I'll agree with you 100%.

Otherwise though, you should only be getting killed by the chimera in brawl the same number of times you got killed by it in Mother 3.

This especially goes for those who did not play Mother 3.

 

[VietGeek]

however the tendency for pigmasks to throw you into the chimera is 0

cuz they're never there (consciously anyway)

obv

 

[bobson]

Chimera: If so, you're gonna have to significantly slow down the intro shine, or whatever. Doesn't it appear pretty quickly? And it's an insta stock-loss, so it really shouldn't be popping up very quickly.

After it shows up it takes quite a bit for it to start chomping; enough for anyone to dodge it on reaction unless they just got piledriven into the ground or something.

Because 1 Hit KO hazards are awesome.

Fixed. If you nerf the Chimera there's no point to keeping it. Its whole point is to be a 1HKO.

 

[GHNeko]

New Port City as is. 1hko hazard.

NPC+, no 1hitko hazard.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ok, i've looked at NPC and 75m

for some reason, there are no bones for the platforms in either. i need more time to look, but its not looking good right now.

 

[MK26]

no collision data at all =/

i tried a straight up model swap and stgposition export (who knew all the forms had their own fight start spawn points) and the platform collisions did not port over.

Then I tried to swap all the forms w/ just grass. It looked like it worked, but it had the collision data of the Rock transformation (O_o).

Also the little stream on the grass stage doesn't work, but that was to be expected. =/

did you test my model swap? if you did, and it didnt work, send me your swaps (noting which files you changed in each) and ill see what i can do

 

[Veril]

The Chimera should appear in sudden death. That would be sick.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i've tried something with PS1 and managed to keep it them same size as the original file. it might work as a fix (once frozen) but i don't have access to my tv right now so i have to wait to test it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, its very odd. the stage loads grass, but it has od collisions (not neutral stage's). apparently, you can't stand on the tree/bush or the top platform. the middle platform has some odd collision as well. oh, and you also float a little off the ground.i may have some other ideas, but this is notably difficult.

 

[ValTroX]

Guys, I had another idea while my niece was playing brawl on Luigi's Mansion(kinda the only game i had accessible xD), why not make the platform where you can tech (second floor) like a normal platform, that would make the stage a good CP. You could still destroy the stage to make it flat. I came across this idea because last night i saw Summit+, which looks entirely amazing, and if you can remove the effects of the ice block, i'm sure you can make it so you can go through the platforms below the columns.

 

[MK26]

Guys, I had another idea while my niece was playing brawl on Luigi's Mansion(kinda the only game i had accessible xD), why not make the platform where you can tech (second floor) like a normal platform, that would make the stage a good CP. You could still destroy the stage to make it flat. I came across this idea because last night i saw Summit+, which looks entirely amazing, and if you can remove the effects of the ice block, i'm sure you can make it so you can go through the platforms below the columns.

*facepalm*

why did i not think of this sooner?

EDIT: yes, i literally facepalmed at myself irl when i read this.

EDITEDIT: if you truly think PS1 is a banworthy stage, post a download link to a grass-only PS1 with everything fixed but the collision data. Then, and only then, will I commence work on the collision data for teh stage, as it seems the stage I uploaded does not work. Not only that, but I also know how to return the Melee windmill to the Brawl, and FroHo can probably edit the rock and fire portions of the stage to be less obtrusive (but i personally think that its fine the way it is...)

 

[FrozenHobo]

Guys, I had another idea while my niece was playing brawl on Luigi's Mansion(kinda the only game i had accessible xD), why not make the platform where you can tech (second floor) like a normal platform, that would make the stage a good CP. You could still destroy the stage to make it flat. I came across this idea because last night i saw Summit+, which looks entirely amazing, and if you can remove the effects of the ice block, i'm sure you can make it so you can go through the platforms below the columns.

thats a good idea, actually.

just note, though, that the summit's ice is still slippery (ICs don't slide on ice so you couldn't see that. my bad) but Maestrooo can get that done, i'm sure.

 

[MK26]

i facepalmed at myself again

its character-specific

which means its an attribute in the character pacs



EDIT:

For self-reference, dont mind this:

Spoiler

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl) <--
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Smashville
WarioWare (singles) <--/Wifi Waiting Room (doubles) <--

Delfino Plaza
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate Orpheon <--
Brinstar
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium <--
Castle Siege
Wifi Waiting Room (singles)/WarioWare (doubles)

Skyworld <--
Luigi's Mansion <--
PictoChat
Jungle Japes <--
Norfair
Green Greens

Distant Planet
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Onett
Corneria
Pirate Ship

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 <--
Mario Circuit
Mario Bros.
75m
Rumble Falls
Bridge of Eldin
Temple
Spear Pillar <--
Port Town Aero Dive <--
Big Blue <--
New Pork City
Summit <--
Flat Zone 2
Shadow Moses Island
Green Hill Zone
Hanenbow

 

[Veril]

Guys, I had another idea while my niece was playing brawl on Luigi's Mansion(kinda the only game i had accessible xD), why not make the platform where you can tech (second floor) like a normal platform, that would make the stage a good CP.

I would support that as a CP.

post a download link to a grass-only PS1 with everything fixed but the collision data. Then, and only then, will I commence work on the collision data for teh stage, as it seems the stage I uploaded does not work. Not only that, but I also know how to return the Melee windmill to the Brawl, and FroHo can probably edit the rock and fire portions of the stage to be less obtrusive (but i personally think that its fine the way it is...)

That would be amazing.

 

[FrozenHobo]

EDITEDIT: if you truly think PS1 is a banworthy stage, post a download link to a grass-only PS1 with everything fixed but the collision data. Then, and only then, will I commence work on the collision data for teh stage, as it seems the stage I uploaded does not work. Not only that, but I also know how to return the Melee windmill to the Brawl, and FroHo can probably edit the rock and fire portions of the stage to be less obtrusive (but i personally think that its fine the way it is...)

just saw this.

i have a PS1 with grass visually working, but the middle structure has no collision, and the collision for the tree is under the middle/bottom platform of the center structure (boy, that was a mouthful).


if you know how to give it melee windmill, then i can go ahead and make a second pac for the stage that just decreases the effectiveness of the rock/tree (i know how i want to do the rock, but the tree will be interesting...).

 

[Deleted member]

Stuff in red is deleted.
The swinging boat has a semicircle path set in blue regarding its position with the stone base of the level. Boat and level need to be placed well.
The green ellipse contains a platform which is not big enough to be a nuisance with the boat. It can be moved down towards green line.

The sloped stone base would make a nice level. Only other example that comes to mind is 1st phase of Castle Siege. The slope adds a strategy where certain characters projectiles may not be spammed if they move very horizontally. But gravity or ground hugging based projectiles may work well enough to camp the right edge.

The right ledge is susceptible for gimping/punishing some character's recoveries with an overhang on the level base. Also, it has a decent edge that many characters may recover on with ease.

The left ledge has a nice edge as well and a wall for versatile recoveries with wall jumping, wall teching, tether, wall sticking. Also if the boat were to swing overhead it may give another recovery option similar to Smashville.

Whether or not there should be a platform on the right can overshadow what makes the level unique- the boat. A moving platform in both simultaneous horizontal and vertical measures could be a good counterpick on good tech chasers, jugglers, etc.

 

[ValTroX]

I still think that any of the current ideas for PSI are better than the PSI we already have. I the perfect world, I see PSI with neutral, grass and water(melee windmill) transformations. If that's not possible, then try to freeze it on grass mode. If that's not possible either, then just release the stage with melee windmill, because the windmill is one of the most annoying things ever -.-. Also, I'm glad you guys liked the idea for Luigi's Mansion, I can't wait to see it done, it shouldn't be too hard and it will make a wonderful stage

 

[GHNeko]

Yoshi's Island: B - Putting Ghost on a timer.

possible?

 

[Revven]

just saw this.

i have a PS1 with grass visually working, but the middle structure has no collision, and the collision for the tree is under the middle/bottom platform of the center structure (boy, that was a mouthful).


if you know how to give it melee windmill, then i can go ahead and make a second pac for the stage that just decreases the effectiveness of the rock/tree (i know how i want to do the rock, but the tree will be interesting...).

The edges also need some work too if it's possible at all to actually make them easier to grab than normal.

 

[MK26]

I still think that any of the current ideas for PSI are better than the PSI we already have. I the perfect world, I see PSI with neutral, grass and water(melee windmill) transformations. If that's not possible, then try to freeze it on grass mode. If that's not possible either, then just release the stage with melee windmill, because the windmill is one of the most annoying things ever -.-. Also, I'm glad you guys liked the idea for Luigi's Mansion, I can't wait to see it done, it shouldn't be too hard and it will make a wonderful stage

Mansion is done, somebody pm if you want to test it for me

Yoshi's Island: B - Putting Ghost on a timer.

possible?

I've thought of this, but the control for it is probably in a file i dont understand yet...if it's not completely random...

The edges also need some work too if it's possible at all to actually make them easier to grab than normal.

oh thats easy...the hard part is making the thickened edges visible...do we need that?

 

[FrozenHobo]

Mansion is done, somebody pm if you want to test it for me

yeah, go ahead and send it to me.

I've thought of this, but the control for it is probably in a file i dont understand yet...if it's not completely random...

alternatively, i could move up the platforms and freeze the stage so they are always up, just not all the way (maybe not a good idea, but eh)

oh thats easy...the hard part is making the thickened edges visible...do we need that?

i can look at actually thickening the stage to be physically thicker. don't know what it will do in-game, though

 

[AMKalmar]

drpepper, have all those parts already been removed from NPC or is that just what's planned?

 

[MK26]

i just realized that i cant recreate the bounciness of tree in the grass stage, period.



cape, is a non-bouncy tree good enough?

 

[Revven]

Maestro, the tree doesn't bounce...