Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[jalued]

So it's like melee sheik's Down-throw. Till at least like 170 on non-lightweights you will get a D-throw to fair/bair. It's not that broken to have a guaranteed combo...

ahh i guess ur right, ok then,its fine then lol

 

[grim mouser]

The general consensus right now is that Marth and Squirtle need slight tone-downs, but the majority of the cast is fine. With these few tweaks made, an official Final Beta will likely be released.

Has a throw hitbox mod been deemed out of reach? I was under the impression that code was one of the last things needed before refining to a final version.

 

[Plum]

Has a throw hitbox mod been deemed out of reach? I was under the impression that code was one of the last things needed before refining to a final version.

At this point I think its just a matter of finding where the values are stored, once that is found then modifying them would come right after.

You can alter the damage of the throw iirc, and that directly impacts the power of the throw. That's the best we can do right now.

 

[Almas]

It may be something that we will use as a balancing tool in the future - it is certainly possible. Paprika killer recently developed a modification to the hitbox code which allows the changing of the hitlag and size of any hitbox. Sadly the size modification is done as an overall modifier, not one in each direction, but it is still very useful.

I can foresee the complaining about Snake's tilts immediately imminent - but his tilt game is one (if not THE) of the things which defines him as a character.

We can modify the damage of throws because many throws have hitboxes. An obvious example - during Mario's Backthrow he spins the opponent round several times, and conjures a hitbox where they are being hurtled. Changing the damage of these hitboxes changes the damage of the throw but has no significant impact on its knockback.

 

[grim mouser]

Hitbox size modification? That sounds fun.

So in short, there aren't (m)any throws that would need to be altered anyway?

 

[Arkaether]

Oh my god a hitbox size modifier.

...So how about that Jigglypuff dtilt?

 

[CloneHat]

Oh my god a hitbox size modifier.

...So how about that Jigglypuff dtilt?

Or utilt.

 

[Revven]

Has a throw hitbox mod been deemed out of reach? I was under the impression that code was one of the last things needed before refining to a final version.

Um, by final, Almas probably meant OFFICIAL 4.1 release, not the VERY VERY VERY last beta.

Also, Almas, why tha hell did you just post about what PK discovered? Now we're gonna get this thread flooded with hitbox size change ideas. And would you look above me, it already started. -__-;

 

[MK26]

Does Lucario's Up-B really need the speed boost now that it doesn't go into Helpless?

 

[Revven]

Does Lucario's Up-B really need the speed boost now that it doesn't go into Helpless?

Planning on getting rid of it. (The speed boost).

 

[Almas]

I highly doubt that the next release will be anything other than a final beta. Attempting to hold off a "Gold" release as y'all like to call it until the game is perfect in every way is silly. The majority of the cast is pretty tightly balanced now, and all that remains are some final balancing, aesthetic changes and minor feature additions.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i was about to make a post about how buffing recoveries is stupid, it waters down the gameplay, it paves the way for people asking for their character's weaknesses to be consolidated, and if we follow this path we will eventually end up with a game of 39 characters w/no strengths or weaknesses to exploit.

but i got bored and don't care anymore.

you can read the first part of my post tho:
Before I start, I'd just like to let everyone know that I am well aware that I am a nobody. I have no credentials as a player and I've never participated in an in-person tourney. I'm just a gamer that enjoys the competitive side of smash bros. I don't even have more than 1000 posts or a colored name. I know these things are important when it comes to taking someone's opinion seriously when it comes to this forum, but please just hear me out.

 

[jalued]

I highly doubt that the next release will be anything other than a final beta. Attempting to hold off a "Gold" release as y'all like to call it until the game is perfect in every way is silly. The majority of the cast is pretty tightly balanced now, and all that remains are some final balancing, aesthetic changes and minor feature additions.

is that once u have NTSC and PAL both at the same level (so that online will finally work between the two)? and YAY :D

 

[cAm8ooo]

The general consensus right now is that Marth and Squirtle need slight tone-downs, but the majority of the cast is fine. With these few tweaks made, an official Final Beta will likely be released.

I was under the impression from the kirby board that kirby would also be toned down some with a slight KB nerf for his fsmash. Is this still going to be implemented?

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I don't even think anyone at all needs changing besides Marth. The fact that Marth is TRULY based on JUST dancing blade is not an annoying problem, but it just takes away from the uniqueness in him. I was playing b+ for a good while with a bunch of people yesterday at a smashfest and its really apparent that his dancing blade is too much in a sense. Nothing is going to really change my mind about it.. its fine if you keep it that way, but it makes him boring

 

[GHNeko]

I don't even think anyone at all needs changing besides Marth. The fact that Marth is TRULY based on JUST dancing blade is not an annoying problem, but it just takes away from the uniqueness in him. I was playing b+ for a good while with a bunch of people yesterday at a smashfest and its really apparent that his dancing blade is too much in a sense. Nothing is going to really change my mind about it.. its fine if you keep it that way, but it makes him boring

Update your B+ codeset. <_>

If you are using the latest codeset, and you think that, you guys are doing it wrong.

 

[leafgreen386]

I don't even think anyone at all needs changing besides Marth. The fact that Marth is TRULY based on JUST dancing blade is not an annoying problem, but it just takes away from the uniqueness in him. I was playing b+ for a good while with a bunch of people yesterday at a smashfest and its really apparent that his dancing blade is too much in a sense. Nothing is going to really change my mind about it.. its fine if you keep it that way, but it makes him boring

Like neko was saying, in the nightly builds set marth's sideB has received a hefty nerf. Its damage was greatly reduced, and it no longer can be used as a kill move. I think I actually overnerfed it, since the final hit down no longer seems to be safe on hit. I'll need to go back and fix it. It'll still have reduced damage and it still won't kill - it just won't be punishable on hit.

Honestly, at this point, if there is any move marth is "based on," it's fair, which I think is fine.

The only things marth needs to be nerfed are his upB invincibility and maybe the amount of damage his moves do (besides sideB, obviously, which has already been nerfed).

 

[metaXzero]

Question: What are the chances of Brawl+ getting unrestricted replay camera? I know it doesn't add anything competitively, but neither does unrestricted pause camera. It's just cool.

I ask because when I introduced Brawl+ to my friends, they really loved it and liked playing Brawl again. Even casually, we were having loads of fun. We just wished we had unrestricted replay camera.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I don't really ever notice damage, but thats a good point, I never noticed the nerf..

I am updated to the latest codeset though. I guess thats why I was getting annoyed, since the marth kept trying to kill me with it and it took years.. :/

 

[shanus]

Like neko was saying, in the nightly builds set marth's sideB has received a hefty nerf. Its damage was greatly reduced, and it no longer can be used as a kill move. I think I actually overnerfed it, since the final hit down no longer seems to be safe on hit. I'll need to go back and fix it. It'll still have reduced damage and it still won't kill - it just won't be punishable on hit.

Honestly, at this point, if there is any move marth is "based on," it's fair, which I think is fine.

The only things marth needs to be nerfed are his upB invincibility and maybe the amount of damage his moves do (besides sideB, obviously, which has already been nerfed).

Step 1. Lose first match in tournament as your main.
Step 2. Pick marth and camp with fairs
Step 3. Watch opponent crash and burn. He has huge speed, high priority, and can combo with solid kill moves.

 

[Roxas215]

So yall really don't think fox needs to be nerfed? Yall really don't think pikachu needs his dsmash and uair angles changed? As of now it is WAY TOO EASY to score a thunder with pika. Yall really don't think kirby needs a fsmash nerf? Yall really don't think Ness needs SOMETHING??????After btl ALOT of people feel that there are way more changes needed then just squirtle and lucario.

Edit also. I may be on the minority of this but NL also agrees. I think diddy should get his auto ledge back. True he is a beast on stage but really it makes no sense how you can never get back on the ledge once u below it. Maybe nerf something about his ground game to counter bringing his auto ledge back?

 

[shanus]

Philly, when we say small tweaks, it means things along those lines

 

[GHNeko]

Wall of Fair is still possible to break.

And even if you change the damage out put or even change the size of fair through whatever magical method, the move is going to work the same way regardless unless you start messing with its lag, in which you're going way to god **** far.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

I'm wondering to see how deep this rabbit hole goes; and by deep, I mean the meta game. Is there a plan to offer periodic updates to B+ if the meta-game stagnates to one super-dominant strategy? I know people will complain and complain their ***** off, but what exactly is going to be the norm or stance on situations such as these.

 

[MK26]

Question: What are the chances of Brawl+ getting unrestricted replay camera? I know it doesn't add anything competitively, but neither does unrestricted pause camera. It's just cool.

I ask because when I introduced Brawl+ to my friends, they really loved it and liked playing Brawl again. Even casually, we were having loads of fun. We just wished we had unrestricted replay camera.

Just use the txt file to compile the GCT yourself...I do it all the time to add codes like unrestricted replay camera, unrestricted button mapping editing, that code that allows multiple people to use the same colour, and my CSSes

 

[Deleted member]

It may be something that we will use as a balancing tool in the future - it is certainly possible. Paprika killer recently developed a modification to the hitbox code which allows the changing of the hitlag and size of any hitbox. Sadly the size modification is done as an overall modifier, not one in each direction, but it is still very useful.

I can foresee the complaining about Snake's tilts immediately imminent - but his tilt game is one (if not THE) of the things which defines him as a character.

We can modify the damage of throws because many throws have hitboxes. An obvious example - during Mario's Backthrow he spins the opponent round several times, and conjures a hitbox where they are being hurtled. Changing the damage of these hitboxes changes the damage of the throw but has no significant impact on its knockback.

to elaborate at bit (it's out now anyway), the hitboxes are more than likely circles (spheres to be more precise, but we play on a flat stage so that doesn't matter). editing this in only the X or the Y axis would be difficult since you would end up with eliptical hitboxes.

the hitlag modifier is not included since I didn't deem it important enough. (and would make the hitbox data have half lines again)

 

[VietGeek]

Step 1. Lose first match in tournament as your main.
Step 2. Pick marth and camp with fairs
Step 3. Watch opponent crash and burn. He has huge speed, high priority, and can combo with solid kill moves.

Alternatively:

Step 1: You lose.
Step 2: You CP Marth and camp with fairs. You win.
Step 3: You stay Marth and your opponent CPs Sheik or Meta Knight and overwhelms you through your fair wall.
Step 4: You're now going against a uphill battle that you may not win as Marth. As Meta Knight, your foe can choose whatever stage for a CP he personally prefers and you're hard pressed if you stay as Marth. You lose.

Like neko was saying, in the nightly builds set marth's sideB has received a hefty nerf. Its damage was greatly reduced, and it no longer can be used as a kill move. I think I actually overnerfed it, since the final hit down no longer seems to be safe on hit. I'll need to go back and fix it. It'll still have reduced damage and it still won't kill - it just won't be punishable on hit.

The only things marth needs to be nerfed are his upB invincibility and maybe the amount of damage his moves do (besides sideB, obviously, which has already been nerfed).

His UpB invincibility is fine since his DS is now a complete shadow of its former self. Considering how punishable it is and how unlikely he'll be using it to combo break everything due to risk/reward ratio, it's fine.

As for side-B. Keep it. It's a damaging move and shouldn't be so safe considering its speed. It'll be another weakness that keeps Marth in check.

 

[FireKirby7]

Can I have the code for the Hitbox Size Modifier?
I just want to mess with it

 

[Deleted member]

Can I have the code for the Hitbox Size Modifier?
I just want to mess with it

as soon as the one we have is considered stable.

 

[Joak]

I'm using this codeset and I have the text file in the root of SD card. All stuff works except that PK's Pokemon changes on death. Am I doing it wrong or is it just a bug?

 

[grim mouser]

Um, by final, Almas probably meant OFFICIAL 4.1 release, not the VERY VERY VERY last beta.

In that case, I must have really misinterpreted what Almas said:

I highly doubt that the next release will be anything other than a final beta. Attempting to hold off a "Gold" release as y'all like to call it until the game is perfect in every way is silly. The majority of the cast is pretty tightly balanced now, and all that remains are some final balancing, aesthetic changes and minor feature additions.

._.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

If your trying it on wifi it wont work, atleast not for me

 

[Almas]

Well, I was until recently under the impression that most people were satisfied with the majority of changes made. I suppose we will see.

 

[GHNeko]

People need to start doing their own personal testing with other people offline and start gathering hard data and results if they want to see changes in B+ other than "x amount of people over 20 complained/requested buffs/nerfs and they got it"

Playing "He said, She said" and "I think, I feel"" wont help because it looks nothing more than complaints.


"Well, I played x (unit of time) and blah blah blah."

Give proof or not. Test all variable that can be touched before you complain about something. =__=


We shouldnt even be in a rush for Genesis. Rather than making a good, but rushed version, we should just take our time and just used the best version at the time for genesis. If things slip by, that will look worse at Genesis than if we just took our time.

 

[grim mouser]

Was Wolf's 90 degree shine removed in the most recent version, or am I mistakenly using an old version?

 

[cman]

Well, I was until recently under the impression that most people were satisfied with the majority of changes made. I suppose we will see.

I don't think they dislike the changes as much as they dislike that it is differing more heavily from the original game than what they wanted.

 

[GHNeko]

Was Wolf's 90 degree shine removed in the most recent version, or am I mistakenly using an old version?

Its gone.

10normalshineangle

 

[Magus420]

People need to start doing their own personal testing with other people offline and start gathering hard data and results if they want to see changes in B+ other than "x amount of people over 20 complained/requested buffs/nerfs and they got it"

Playing "He said, She said" and "I think, I feel"" wont help because it looks nothing more than complaints.


"Well, I played x (unit of time) and blah blah blah."

Give proof or not. Test all variable that can be touched before you complain about something. =__=

It'd be nice if we could perhaps get this sort of thing upon request for things that have already been added in the past. I've twice asked for an actual reason for Luigi's near n-air ko power aerial up-b that isn't essentially 'enough people whined about an escapable throw combo and they got what they wanted'. Did not enough people get ***** and complain about Ivysaur's d-throw to u-air to get the u-air nerfed instead of just learning to DI the throw properly?

 

[SketchHurricane]

i was about to make a post about how buffing recoveries is stupid, it waters down the gameplay, it paves the way for people asking for their character's weaknesses to be consolidated, and if we follow this path we will eventually end up with a game of 39 characters w/no strengths or weaknesses to exploit.

but i got bored and don't care anymore.

you can read the first part of my post tho:
Before I start, I'd just like to let everyone know that I am well aware that I am a nobody. I have no credentials as a player and I've never participated in an in-person tourney. I'm just a gamer that enjoys the competitive side of smash bros. I don't even have more than 1000 posts or a colored name. I know these things are important when it comes to taking someone's opinion seriously when it comes to this forum, but please just hear me out.

Well as far as I know, you've been involved in the B+ effort for a long time. You got some clout. Though I might just be giving you extra credit sense we've been largely voicing the same opinions as of yet

Besides, as long as the arguments make sense and are well supported, they will be considered reguardless of the poster. I've seen new people come in and rock the boat, I don't see why someone like you would be overlooked. The B+ backroom has been all ears from what I've seen, thought I haven't been following as closely as before.

Having said that, I'd like to see some B+ at Florida Gaming: Orlando Mayem this May 30th if I go. Anyone in FL hitting that up?

 

[MK26]

If we gave Falco's down-B and Ganon's Up-B a value of 0f to give them hitstun, can't we do the same for the 'swallow' portion of Kirby's neutral-B?

EDIT: and the very furthest-out hitbox of Ness' Fsmash doesnt have the home run bat noise