Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[~tgm_Zeej]

Super low SH is cool and all, but any WoP type maneuvers with his aerials no longer work, so shield pressure has to be done differently. Not a bad thing, it just really takes some getting used to.
I think it makes for an overall more effective Ness and doesn't change his general feel too much, but I'm waiting to get used to the new physics before I critique it.

 

[cubaisdeath]

has everyone's jump height changed?

 

[shanus]

has everyone's jump height changed?

In what regard? We only altered Ness' physics in the past build, which is again getting fine tuned in the next build.

 

[Yingyay]

I basically main Ness now, actually. And frankly, I feel like you and _clinton need to work harder to improve. I don't see why Ness needs any more buffs than he already does. He's been given a major overhaul - what you two ask for is just making things easier for you.

Someone posted earlier - "omg yes I can finally sh-Dair to fh-dair over and over again!"

You could already do that, folks. :/

This. Eventually every character is gonna require no skill if people keep complaining about not being able to do something AND if the coders listen to them. If you cant do something then mess around with the buffer not decide that "insert move here" needs a buff.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

This. Eventually every character is gonna require no skill if people keep complaining about not being able to do something AND if the coders listen to them. If you cant do something then mess around with the buffer not decide that "insert move here" needs a buff.

You do realize that 2 dairs didn't combo before, right? xD

Even so, it's a moot point. That combo is for the most part useless. It's just cool that you can spike dance on people's faces again. That was all he was saying. >.>

 

[shanus]

This. Eventually every character is gonna require no skill if people keep complaining about not being able to do something AND if the coders listen to them. If you cant do something then mess around with the buffer not decide that "insert move here" needs a buff.

As I've said before, and I'll say it again. The WBR doesn't think Ness is bad, (in fact, we agree with delorted completely) we think a lot of the players severely underrate him. Thats why we made *barely* any changes to him despite all the complaints. In the next build, the only thing ness is gonna see is just adding more precision to the changes already made to him (i.e. retune the SH height a bit, etc)

 

[Yingyay]

As I've said before, and I'll say it again. The WBR doesn't think Ness is bad, (in fact, we agree with delorted completely) we think a lot of the players severely underrate him. Thats why we made *barely* any changes to him despite all the complaints. In the next build, the only thing ness is gonna see is just adding more precision to the changes already made to him (i.e. retune the SH height a bit, etc)

I know.

So what are your plans for the next release besides ness. I Think B+ can finally reach a golden point soon. All we gotta do is fine tune a few Short hops and gravity related things I'm guessing?

 

[VietGeek]

I suppose waiting for that much anticipated throw mod would finally make things polished enough that many can say without a doubt that B+ will then go gold.

I don't know how others feel, but that throw mod is important stuff for reshaping throws to firstly and foremost fix the problems already presented with certain grabs (obvious example is Falcon versus certain characters), and perhaps tweaking some throws here and there to make them flow better in Brawl+.

Physic tweaking is important too, and that is fine-tuning the WBR can currently do. But yeah, if you disregard throws, B+ just needs some retweaking for gold.

Also whatever happened to that suggestion for removing port priority? Something about forcing a grab break, and giving both players the damage? Was that ever implemented?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Ness seems to play well enough. Lol bowser is a threat now. U guys did a great job with him. I cant land safely against him XD. That usmash is big O_O. And toon link is awesome (with 8 buffer)

 

[Revven]

Also whatever happened to that suggestion for removing port priority? Something about forcing a grab break, and giving both players the damage? Was that ever implemented?

Port priority cannot be messed with due to Wii's limitations (yet again). It cannot seem to keep track of all the players, which is what port priority deals with. If PK was here, he'd be able to explain it better but, he's in Greece right about now. In any case, port priority cannot be messed with which is very unfortunate.

 

[shanus]

We are near done with balancing, however there are other fancy little things which we want to add before Godl release. Things such as a good camera mod, improve system performance a bit, fix a few known bugs, etc. But yeah, we are closer

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Is anything going to be done about some of the stages? Pirate Ship comes to mind as one that needs work.

 

[comboking]

How come nightly builds work on my wii but not the official Brawl+ sets?
Also can I get a text file for this nightly build? PLZ

 

[GHNeko]

Is anything going to be done about some of the stages? Pirate Ship comes to mind as one that needs work.

IIRC they said they were going to weaken hazards.

Port Town too. :V


There are other stages that have the possibility of being saved,but I don't know if they really want to make more CPs.

I would because that would be more power to the players, and certain stages definately have legit CP material.

:V

 

[MK26]

-IC Infinite fix code isn't working properly yet, held off till fixed

Is it possible that it isnt working because it was created with Character ID Fix 2.0 in mind but now we're using 2.1?

EDIT:

Is anything going to be done about some of the stages? Pirate Ship comes to mind as one that needs work.

No amount of stage freezing will fix Pirate Ship's water camping...

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

IIRC they said they were going to weaken hazards.

Port Town too. :V


There are other stages that have the possibility of being saved,but I don't know if they really want to make more CPs.

I would because that would be more power to the players, and certain stages definately have legit CP material.

*pics*

:V

Ew, Hanenbow. D:

Ah, thanks. I had heard about that, but I hadn't seen discussion on it in a while. Just wondering if it had been dropped or not.

 

[Yingyay]

Oi I just tested out sheik.
Fsmash is golden now.
Ftilt, it hits a little too high.

 

[GHNeko]

No amount of stage freezing will fix Pirate Ship's water camping...

Reducing the water lag will deff help though.

Ew, Hanenbow. D:

Ah, thanks. I had heard about that, but I hadn't seen discussion on it in a while. Just wondering if it had been dropped or not.

Hannebow is legit CP material.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Speaking of character specific stuffs, I think Ness' dair sourspot needs to be either nerfed or shrunk.

The move's duration is nothing to sneeze at, the sourspot's inexplicable range is almost Snake level, and it'll kill you just as, if not more effectively than the spike. This wasn't a big deal before the speed-up, but now you can just sort of throw it out at the end of a combo and get a hit.

Thoughts?

Edit: GHNeko

Still, ew Hanenbow. D:

 

[Rudra]

Also whatever happened to that suggestion for removing port priority? Something about forcing a grab break, and giving both players the damage? Was that ever implemented?

Though Port Priority can't be removed, I had asked for a code in that should someone grab an attacker and take damage, a grab break would occur. Someone mentioned giving both players the damage? Why?

If a character attacked and the player rushed in and attempted a grab, why should he still land a grab at the expense of damage, especially when the attack could have varied from something weak that could have lead into a possible combo or something strong that could have finished him/her off? Though it is still rather rare, I dont think a character should land a grab despite taking damaage, as they would have been better off baiting the move or defending to begin with.

 

[Yingyay]

Reducing the water lag will deff help though.



Hannebow is legit CP material.

For spammers >_>
Its too campy.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Hanenbow is a perfectly legit CP, especially with how we can tweak stages.


It's just the idea of playing on it makes me want to cough up blood.

 

[GHNeko]

Hanenbow is only campy when add in that left part of the stage. Centralizing play on that one part removes heavy camping.

 

[_Yes!_]

My opinion of the 6-10 nightly build:

GANON!!!!

 

[Yingyay]

Meh, I still dislike hannenbow

Anywayz like I said earlier, I think sheik's unsweetspotted ftilt is a bit to high lowering the kgb by like a little bit wont hurt

 

[Epic Kovumon]

My opinion of the 6-10 nightly build:

GANON!!!!

My opinion?

NOW!

I love how the C4 explosion start-up time has been cut in half.

 

[FrozenHobo]

for hanenbow: can you make the inside ledges grab-able?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Anywayz like I said earlier, I think sheik's unsweetspotted ftilt is a bit to high lowering the kgb by like a little bit wont hurt

It's actually already lower than it was in 4.1. The thigh hit is pretty much there to stay.
The foot hit is what needs feedback.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

theres a glitch with the nightly build where wolf will randomly lose his idle animation. So when you stand still you are just frozen to the last frame you were on the walking animation.

 

[_clinton]

This. Eventually every character is gonna require no skill if people keep complaining about not being able to do something AND if the coders listen to them. If you cant do something then mess around with the buffer not decide that "insert move here" needs a buff.

I find it kind of funny that the only thing I wanted mainly with Ness and Lucas when this thing started was the ability to use their aerial PK Fire tricks the same ways as in vBrawl (Well that and no grab release bs...thank you). Which was wreaked because of the gravity increase...which I've brought up about more than once...

Really...the other buff ideas just came along with certain other things that were given to them...which a lot of them didn't really do much to help IMO (Utilt and Dsmash...I'm ok on the Dash attack though)

 

[Revven]

theres a glitch with the nightly build where wolf will randomly lose his idle animation. So when you stand still you are just frozen to the last frame you were on the walking animation.

Known, did it just happen suddenly? This is the bug we're trying to fix... and what held up the set from releasing.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

it happened suddenly, also happened to charizard and link

 

[Revven]

it happened suddenly, also happened to charizard and link

Yeeeep.... I figured it affected others. Thanks, we weren't sure if we fixed it or not. I'll let shanus know when he gets back.

 

[leafgreen386]

It's actually already lower than it was in 4.1. The thigh hit is pretty much there to stay.
The foot hit is what needs feedback.

I think the foot hit needs a bit more growth, actually. I was able to do ftilt -> usmash on ivysaur at 150% (no DI, but still), which is really just a little bit insane. The window for ftilt -> usmash shouldn't be that large.

 

[Mattnumbers]

To all the people saying ness is good:

We know this, the WBR knows this, but we also think he isn't average yet, which is what we should shoot for. The buffs we want aren't that big since we're asking to take away all of his buffs besides the dash attack one and the dair one. Yes that is including the PKT1 one unless the WBR thinks it would be ok after testing him with the new buffs.

And Shanus, all of the ness players that are working on him except for ONE love his new SH, but we agree that he needs momentum with it. It's just that one Ness player that doesn't and he wants Ness's game to be focused on PKT, he even told us this in IRC. Everyone else wants different things for him, we want him to be an all out offensive character with a bad recovery and trouble dealing with camping.

 

[metaXzero]

^No more infinite PK Thunder? Why take that away?

He still has a bad recovery. It's just not ****** proof bad.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

PKT1 buff is going? Wait, when did this happen? I love that thing, don't take it away. D:

And I believe a few others have had issue with his super low SH in addition to me. I can deal I suppose, but it could stand to go a tiny bit higher I think if others really don't like it.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I meant of the people that were discussing him on IRC before you got there Tatsuman. And the only reason we aren't asking for the PKT buff is because we are afraid that the WBR will deem our changes OP and take out a different one that we feel is necessary.

 

[shanus]

PKT1 isn't going. His SH height is being raised (slight, .95 from .85).

Also, I'll be frank. The changes you guys sent me were very very bad. The momentum could clear 1/3 to 1/2 of FD in a SH smaller than foxes. The funniest part, with your fair change, I could link multiple fairs on an opponent exceeding 120%, and that was with momentum only at 110% (yours was at 135%!). Also, your initial fair design could be SDI'd out on the first hit downwards.

You guys have a concept in mind, but throwing a **** ton of momentum at it isn't the correct solution.

Also, your bat changes you upped the damage output, KBG, and BKB in some instances. That means you upped the KBG twice, both by a damage multiplier and KBG, and added more BKB to boot.

You guys want an offensive ness, I know that, but the changes you sent were wayyyy overdone. Ness is a good character, and I'm frankly a little confused by how much you are underrating him. He really doesn't need much of a boost to get him to what you want.

P.S. Kaiser, don't tell me to give it more BKB on the final hit so it doesn't combo at high percent. Thats KBG, BKB would nerf it at low and high percent.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I meant of the people that were discussing him on IRC before you got there Tatsuman. And the only reason we aren't asking for the PKT buff is because we are afraid that the WBR will deem our changes OP and take out a different one that we feel is necessary.

There's something more important than stopping Ness from being existence gimped? Seriously?

As of now, he's just about perfect until we get a throw mod. Only buffs I'd still propose are aerial PKF cancels back, and at this point he's good without them.

Also, I'm beginning to think a dair sourspot nerf/shrink might be needed to balance the speedup. That thing has Snake range and usually kills better than the spike hitbox.