Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Revven]

If you want too help Samus, you need to fix her shield roll speed.

That's not something we wanna do. It's an inherent weakness I could say now and really, you shouldn't be rolling hardly or that much at all with Samus in the first place.

All that needs to be done for her right now are the bombs (fixing them) so that way she can act after them once using them and a few other things (bombs exploding on contact for example).

 

[Yingyay]

About Bowser's usmash buff, how big is the new hitbox? Does it cover his whole body er something?

 

[stingers]

ICs desynch blizzards are crazy...it doesn't freeze anymore so even at high %s you can still chain them together.

it can be DIed out of but not before some serious damage. nerf the damage a bit and it'll be good...

 

[Cytrs]

lucas was already ****, he didn't need a buff.

 

[stingers]

What did Lucas get? I main him...he feels the same.

 

[Cytrs]

u smash speed up

 

[Revven]

u smash speed up

That's been in... since... forever and it's not that significant either. =\

 

[stingers]

seriously lol. i barely use usmash...the decreased knockback means that it just isn't worth it most of the time.

 

[FrozenHobo]

can IC's belay get more knock back?

 

[CountKaiser]

Wait, I don't play IC, but how would that help them?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Also, why do you keep increasing zelda's fair lighting kick size and not her bair? I'm not against it but I just want to know the logic.

Bair is better than Fair in every single way and doesn't need any help. There's also an issue where the sweetspots themselves are in fact so small that idle animations and tumble animations are enough to flub them due to 3D hurtbox nature, so this gives Fair a tactical use in the form of a more forgiving sweetspot. A list of things about Bair:

Slightly stronger KB than Fair
Comes out faster
Less afterlag
Less landing lag
Doesn't take up the entire duration of a SH like Fair (you can double jump, special, etc after SH Bair)
Better animation for trading blows. The animation movement of Fair is more gradual than Bair
Much better out of shield

Remember both kicks are only one frame sweetspots.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I love the new toon link bair. It actually combos now :O.

 

[Swordplay]

Bair is better than Fair in every single way and doesn't need any help. There's also an issue where the sweetspots themselves are in fact so small that idle animations and tumble animations are enough to flub them due to 3D hurtbox nature, so this gives Fair a tactical use in the form of a more forgiving sweetspot. A list of things about Bair:

Slightly stronger KB than Fair
Comes out faster
Less afterlag
Less landing lag
Doesn't take up the entire duration of a SH like Fair (you can double jump, special, etc after SH Bair)
Better animation for trading blows. The animation movement of Fair is more gradual than Bair
Much better out of shield

Remember both kicks are only one frame sweetspots.

I agree with every single one of your points and lve the tactics but in this game, Arn't Bairs usually superior anyway?

I guess I'm thinking the bair is suppose to be superior in some sort of way but thats not true for all character (MARTH COUGH) So I guess I'll drop it.

Thanks for the response.

 

[GHNeko]

can IC's belay get more knock back?

What would be reasoning behind that? The move can already kill at 100% in the air IIRC, not sure what kind of DI you'd need.

I agree with every single one of your points and lve the tactics but in this game, Arn't Bairs usually superior anyway?

I guess I'm thinking the bair is suppose to be superior in some sort of way but thats not true for all character (MARTH COUGH) So I guess I'll drop it.

Thanks for the response.

Falcon would like to have word with you. So would MK...and Bowser, and Lucario, and Ganon, and Fox, and peach, and wario, and pika, etc etc.


Need I go on?

 

[ToxiCrow]

What did Lucas get? I main him...he feels the same.

Lucas has had some changes

-the last Hexagon of bair can now spike; before it was only the toe
-usmash is fast
-utilt is faster
-dash attack is faster
-better air mobility

 

[stingers]

these are all...old changes lol

and better air mobility? do you just mean momentum?

 

[ToxiCrow]

these are all...old changes lol

and better air mobility? do you just mean momentum?

when you said he hasnt changed, i thought u ment since vbrawl lol

and yes, thats what i meant.

 

[cubaisdeath]

I guess I'm thinking the bair is suppose to be superior in some sort of way but thats not true for all character (MARTH COUGH) So I guess I'll drop it.

wtf? marth's bair is hella good. what are you talking about?

 

[RyuReiatsu]

wtf? marth's bair is hella good. what are you talking about?

It IS hella good, but his fair is still better in many ways. I guess that's what he meant.

 

[GHNeko]

Fair is better than Bair. That's what he was getting at.

EDIT: NINJA'D FFFF.

I had some changes to Bair I wanted to do though. I wanted to lower the angle of bair so that it could semi-spike or at least stop knocking characters UP and at least sending them straight back ie horizontally. :/

 

[goodoldganon]

wtf? marth's bair is hella good. what are you talking about?

Better then f-air? Especially when discussing it as an approach or OoS option.

I'm glad you like the new b-air for Toon Link. I need people to do some extensive DI testing on it, it might be a little too good and get knocked down from 67 to 65 degrees.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I had some changes to Bair I wanted to do though. I wanted to lower the angle of bair so that it could semi-spike or at least stop knocking characters UP and at least sending them straight back ie horizontally. :/

His b-air has plenty of knockback already when tippered to make the fact the it pops them slightly upwards not matter most of the time when edge guarding. Making it hit horizontal or semi-spike would make it borderline broken, if not totally (and Marth doesn't need more buffs).

 

[cubaisdeath]

I use it as an OoS option all the time(but its usually better to dancing blade). its also a decent approach if you RAR it. its definitely not better than fair, but he made bair sound terrible with the way the post was worded.



also, I'd like for it to send more horizontally too, sometimes getting that tipper bair is ****, but then it helps them recover it sucks LOL

edit: ninja'd too T__T


it doesn't need to semi-spike, it just needs to be lowered a tiny bit.

marth is good, but I doubt that would be considered a buff if the angle was altered SLIGHTLY. the knockback should stay the same if not decrease depending on the angle its sent at

 

[Mattnumbers]

You could always suggest a slight nerf to tradeoff with that slight buff.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

His b-air has plenty of knockback already when tippered to make the fact the it pops them slightly upwards not matter most of the time when edge guarding. Making it hit horizontal or semi-spike would make it borderline broken, if not totally (and Marth doesn't need more buffs).

True, but he could use some changes.

 

[GHNeko]

Well, I was overexaggerating. :V

You got the point though. :V

And the trade off would be the weakening of the move's KB.

 

[VietGeek]

Train Link:

You know, 67 degrees looks kinda odd. Just played some B+ today and so while I doubt one would "extensively test DI" in the midst of battle, here's what I observed.

Like it sends people directly up if they DI up, looks really funky and makes getting the uair kill seem easier.

The angle height seems to have helped, simply ASDI-ing down to tech is not enough it seems. Tried this against a spacie//FFer btw (Falco).

I suppose you think that bair's angle allows for too many easy combos? Is that your concern GoG?


Marthy/Princey/It's really Sheeda:

Also as minuscule as it would be to lower the angle of tipped bair, currently there's a huge neg. stigma on Marth right now Neko (I'm sure everyone knows this though lol). Changing the angle to actually go horizontal might not sit well with some people considering Marth is already one of the beasts of edgeguarding (all the great vBrawl options with Melee-like ledge mechanics = pretty good imo).

I don't mind either way, as a Marth player I would appreciate it. But how well it's gonna be received is doubtful at best.

 

[cmness]

lol i dont get none of this....
whacha talkin about?

 

[GHNeko]

Marthy/Princey/It's really Sheeda:

Also as minuscule as it would be to lower the angle of tipped bair, currently there's a huge neg. stigma on Marth right now Neko (I'm sure everyone knows this though lol). Changing the angle to actually go horizontal might not sit well with some people considering Marth is already one of the beasts of edgeguarding (all the great vBrawl options with Melee-like ledge mechanics = pretty good imo).

I don't mind either way, as a Marth player I would appreciate it. But how well it's gonna be received is doubtful at best.

Yea. I know about the Stigma, but generally alot of people simply think, "Okay. Marth. fair to dair and fair spam and DB spam."

I'm just trying to add depth to the guy. All he's about right now is Fair spam, K3N C0MB0Z, DB spam, uair juggling, and SH Fair Uair/Utilt. He's almost as shallow as fox. Really. :V

 

[stingers]

he's about 5 different things?

he beats quite a bit of people then...

 

[GHNeko]

Because he has top tier genes. As long as marth has that moveset, he'll always be among high/top tier characters.

Fox is shallow as hell in Melee and B+ and the guy beats alot of people. :V

I'd nerf marth in for some depth. :V

 

[VietGeek]

he's about 5 different things?

he beats quite a bit of people then...

Despite how snide this is I actually agree LOL.

Also if you want to add depth to him Neko, you should wait for a throw mod, a lot of his depth comes from his throw game if you wanna go by Melee/vBrawl and the old "reviving Smash traditions" slogan.

Just my three yen, but I suppose if you want to add something now, bair trade-off wouldn't drastically change much. *shrug*

 

[TLMSheikant]

The new toon link bair feels like it should. BTW I quit having 0 buffer seriously I has no tech skill LOLOLOL. I cant do SHDA in brawl plus...

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Yea. I know about the Stigma, but generally alot of people simply think, "Okay. Marth. fair to dair and fair spam and DB spam."

I'm just trying to add depth to the guy. All he's about right now is Fair spam, K3N C0MB0Z, DB spam, uair juggling, and SH Fair Uair/Utilt. He's almost as shallow fun as fox. Really. :V

.

Ok, I'm stupid.
I'd like to get the same tweaks as VietGeek's, but I guess nobody really wants that...
His DB was greatly nerfed, spamming it results in simple punishments. It's not a character for itself anymore.

His spike is very situational also...
I had so much fun with his Melee combos (considering the fact that I was still a total noob and that my bro owned me to death). It's just sad that he doesn't really have that ability anymore. He's just knocking people far, very far.

Because he has top tier genes. As long as marth has that moveset, he'll always be among high/top tier characters.

Fox is shallow as hell in Melee and B+ and the guy beats alot of people. :V

I'd nerf marth in for some depth. :V

SAME HERE.

 

[GHNeko]

Despite how snide this is I actually agree LOL.

Also if you want to add depth to him Neko, you should wait for a throw mod, a lot of his depth comes from his throw game if you wanna go by Melee/vBrawl and the old "reviving Smash traditions" slogan.

Just my three yen, but I suppose if you want to add something now, bair trade-off wouldn't drastically change much. *shrug*

Well, I agree with him too. the lower angle on a weakened bair would be depth. His aerial and ground moveset (sans Bair) are good as they are.

For throws, I wouldnt touch a thing there, maybe uthrow. Fthrow is pimp already as I can CG with it and combo. Bthrow is ugh. His throw game as a nice amount of depth, but to give bthrow a use, there would have to be a trade off. I dont know what I would trade off from his game for bthrow. tbh, I'd leave it alone.

His moveset is awesome. I just want a little depth. The nerfs he got recently add depth to his game. Before he was more shallow. I love it. Uair is so sexy. Utilt is TOO sexy. New fair is pimp to. Bair has the potental to have sexy uses, and if that means to nerf is so that it cant kill tipped with Good Di til 150% in exchange for lowered angles. I'd do it.

But that's my opinion.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

His moveset is awesome. I just want a little depth. The nerfs he got recently add depth to his game. Before he was more shallow. I love it. Uair is so sexy. Utilt is TOO sexy. New fair is pimp to. Bair has the potental to have sexy uses, and if that means to nerf is so that it cant kill tipped with Good Di til 150% in exchange for lowered angles. I'd do it.

But that's my opinion.

I'd go for it too! Same for Fair .
By the way, just a question like that...
Does anybody ever use FTilt? 'Cause I NEVER do, while I used to do it a lot in Melee.

 

[GHNeko]

Fair is already cool. It's fine as it is. Bair is what I want to see sexing it up in a speedo.

 

[kupo15]

updated for (fun) those speed demons out there.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Fair is already cool. It's fine as it is. Bair is what I want to see sexing it up in a speedo.

I wouldn't mind having a sexy double fair :[.

 

[cubaisdeath]

Does anybody ever use FTilt? 'Cause I NEVER do, while I used to do it a lot in Melee.

I only use it on wolf and falcon lol. I feel like his other 2 tilts are way better and more efficient, so whatever.


its not melee, I like marth in both games though