Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[GHNeko]

I'll be happy with mario when I get a jab that hits up.

The ghost of Doc commands it. :V

When I get the chance, Ill test out the new Mario uair. I'm still standing by the idea that this change makes it too 1D and way less versatile though.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I don't understand why you would buff Wolf. Sure his recovery is bad but he was already a good character! There really isn't a reason to make him really good instead of just good.

Additionally, you must remember the wolf sideB glitch on Yoshi's Island, this makes that much much more powerful.

Same goes to snake but to a lesser degree.

 

[goodoldganon]

I don't understand why you would buff Wolf. Sure his recovery is bad but he was already a good character! There really isn't a reason to make him really good instead of just good.

Additionally, you must remember the wolf sideB glitch on Yoshi's Island, this makes that much much more powerful.

Same goes to snake but to a lesser degree.

Wolf is meh at best. This isn't a huge buff. There are no combos into side-b except d-air on the stage at like 130%, aka big whoop. You b-throw to side-b if they DI poorly, but that's hardly anything to rely on. It just makes edgeguarding Wolf a little more of conscious effort.

The Up-b linked semi-well in vBrawl, we just fixed that. Lastly, the extra KB on the last hits of Up-b is just a little something fun. He won't get many kills with it, but Up-b kills are surprising and cool for any character.

I don't want to sound offensive, but it seems like spacie hate...

I told you why we adjusted Snake's C4. He could C4 recover in vBrawl, and it was gimped a lot in B+ with the higher gravity. I think you are forgetting that C4 recovery does damage to Snake, is easy to intercept, and leaves him in histun. This is hardly a buff, it's adjusting a problem that arose to Snakes games due to OUR changes.

 

[Wingflier]

Hmm giving the heavy character with the best recovery in the game even better recovery...

Makes sense too me.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I get the snake buff , but is there any way to limit the buff to when he's using it for a C4 recovery? Like it's only sped up if its detonated within X frames of deploying it?

And about the spacie hate, I 100% promise you my earlier post about 3 spacies being high tier was a joke. I don't think we should intentionally make ANY character really really good unless we make every(or at least most) character(s) really really good as well.

Although I do see what you mean about it not actually being that much of a buff to him. I worry about its uses on Yoshi's Island though.

EDIT: wing, snake in no way has one of the best recoveries in Brawl+, what are you talking about?

 

[goodoldganon]

I get the snake buff , but is there any way to limit the buff to when he's using it for a C4 recovery? Like it's only sped up if its detonated within X frames of deploying it?

And about the spacie hate, I 100% promise you my earlier post about 3 spacies being high tier was a joke. I don't think we should intentionally make ANY character really really good unless we make every(or at least most) character(s) really really good as well.

Although I do see what you mean about it not actually being that much of a buff to him. I worry about its uses on Yoshi's Island though.

EDIT: wing, snake in no way has one of the best recoveries in Brawl+, what are you talking about?

I'll look into it on Yoshi's Island.

As for the Snake thing, first off there is difference between recovery distance and a good recovery. Snake covers a lot of distance, but it takes him a while to get the momentum to start heading back up. Watch the Chu vs Yes match where Yes loses the match right at the end. Getting on the Cypher SCREAMS spike me.

Also, what you are asking for is impossible Matt. It would be cool and a better fix then the incidental on the stage buff, but thems the breaks sadly.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Snake is spike bait, and there isn't a lot he can do about it. At least with a C4 jump he can be spike bait twice. xD
C4 always seemed a bit too slow to me anyway.

I can't play Brawl+ at the moment, but I'm liking the sound of these changes. Bigger nair for Dedede and faster dair/better fair for Ness especially.

 

[Jimbo_G]

HELL YES for Mario and Wolf tweaks! I'll give those a good look over for the next day or two and let you guys know what I think.

 

[Swordplay]

Wolf is meh at best. This isn't a huge buff. There are no combos into side-b except d-air on the stage at like 130%, aka big whoop. You b-throw to side-b if they DI poorly, but that's hardly anything to rely on. It just makes edgeguarding Wolf a little more of conscious effort.

But don't you wish there were?


I've had dreams of comboing into a suicide offstage side-b for ***** sake.



I honestly think when we get a code for throws, we should allow one of wolfs throws to combo into side-b. It would be unbelievable.




Also, why do you keep increasing zelda's fair lighting kick size and not her bair? I'm not against it but I just want to know the logic.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ok, i'm trying out this new codeset, and i think ness/lucas got some really gay as **** buffs (no homo). i don't know who though lucas's up smash should be faster, but he should be shot. as far as ness goes, his fsmash is ****ing over power as hell. i ran tests and on average he can kill with his fsmash at approximately 50% with a tipper'd hit from the center of FD. this kind of killing power with his already insane aerial moves (which now have little to no lag) he can rack up damage super fast and be able to kill without even thinking about it. nerfing his throws really isn't that even as the ness player really doesn't need to use throws with these ****ed to hell buffs.

i don't want to ask for IC buffs to counter these because then its just power creaping. instead, i think some of the attacks (mainly lucas's usmash and ness's bair) should have more startup lag like vbrawl due to their killing ability. additionally, ness can now deal exorbitant amounts of damage in a short period of time (he can 4 stock MK easy)and turn pretty much any of his moves into a kill move. i just watched him put over 160% on a MK in less than 10 seconds. i'm pretty sure the idea of B+ is to make characters more even and balance, not overpowered and ****ing god-like. with these updates, i can see ness being one of the best B+ characters.

also, there seems to be some lag in their falling occasionally. it'll just have them float like their on the wind PS2.



i also checked out ivy and i'm not sure if she's been buffed in the right areas, but i can't really tell that big of a difference in her gameplay. i like ivy as a character, but i think she was better off in earlier builds.

 

[Swordplay]

i also checked out ivy and i'm not sure if she's been buffed in the right areas, but i can't really tell that big of a difference in her gameplay. i like ivy as a character, but i think she was better off in earlier builds.

Not sure but These are the only characters with ARL other than 50%

-Most characters reduced to 50%
-Captain Falcon reduced to 40%
-Lucas has 40% ALR
-Link reduced to 35%

I remember Ivy was one of them but she is not listed....................................

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Has Lucas' usmash been buffed since the last official build?

Because all that has is range and damage output. It's startup and kill percentages on most are pathetic in relation for how hard it is to hit.


And did Ness' bat get a buff? I'm reading the changelist, and I can't find that. His bat's knockback is really pathetic unless it's been buffed.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Has Lucas' usmash been buffed since the last official build?

Because all that has is range and damage output. It's startup and kill percentages on most are pathetic in relation for how hard it is to hit.


And did Ness' bat get a buff? I'm reading the changelist, and I can't find that. His bat's knockback is really pathetic unless it's been buffed.

i don't know about any of that, but i do know lucas's up smash came out about as fast as the IC's up smash and ness killed me at bellow 60% with an uncharged bat on YI.

 

[I LAG]

mks up-tilt needs a wider hit box and more high %age killing power

 

[FrozenHobo]

mks up-tilt needs a wider hit box and more high %age killing power

it really doesn't. if ICs can live with our sliver of a utilt hitbox, MK should do just fine.

 

[CountKaiser]

The Ness fsmash buff hasn't been put in yet. It's still being worked out. As of right not a tipper bat kills DDD at 85% with DI.

Also, Frozen Popo, who is Ness's bat killing at 50%? The tip of Ness's bat kills 4% lower than Lucas' stick, and I'm sure Lucas' stick doesn't kill at 54%.

Besides, Ness' bat is slow as balls. If you're getting hit by it to the point where it's a problem, you need to get better.

 

[FrozenHobo]

The Ness fsmash buff hasn't been put in yet. It's still being worked out. As of right not a tipper bat kills DDD at 85% with DI.

then does it really need a buff?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

-Lucas U-smash 1.15x (Comes out 24 instead of 28, ends 85 instead of 98)

Pretty ridiculous lag on it, and not insanely fast. Doesn't kill like it used to either.


Only change Ness' bat has gotten is the Home-Run sound, and it's knockback is barely better than Lucas' stick. Shouldn't kill at 50% anywhere unless it's been buffed without it being added to the changelist.

 

[FrozenHobo]

-Lucas U-smash 1.15x (Comes out 24 instead of 28, ends 85 instead of 98)

Pretty ridiculous lag on it, and not insanely fast. Doesn't kill like it used to either.


Only change Ness' bat has gotten is the Home-Run sound, and it's knockback is barely better than Lucas' stick. Shouldn't kill at 50% anywhere unless it's been buffed without it being added to the changelist.

well then wtf. why does it seem to be acting weird for me then.... let me try downloading it again and see if that fixes this **** up.

 

[I LAG]

Mk needs an up-tilt buff coz that is his least used move and now that his d-tilt has been nerfed his main combo d-tilt to grab is EXTREMELY less effective and this is a HUGE nerf so i think he needs a tiny buff on his up-tilt and maybe up-smash

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

well then wtf. why does it seem to be acting weird for me then.... let me try downloading it again and see if that fixes this **** up.

Yeah, definitely a weird happening. I'd say it might be due to bad DI, but you can't even DI it bad enough to kill you at 50%.

Hope it doesn't happen again. Though 50% side kills with Ness' bat would be pretty awesome.

Casey Bat GO!

 

[Blank Mauser]

Not sure but These are the only characters with ARL other than 50%

-Most characters reduced to 50%
-Captain Falcon reduced to 40%
-Lucas has 40% ALR
-Link reduced to 35%

I remember Ivy was one of them but she is not listed....................................

Ivy's ALR was put back at 50, but I'm thinking it will hopefully be changed back to 35 to make up for the harsh punishments she gets. Having slightly less punishable aerials is the least she could get considering spacies get the same treatment with their flying, fast-fally selves.

 

[Magus420]

Mk needs an up-tilt buff coz that is his least used move and now that his d-tilt has been nerfed his main combo d-tilt to grab is EXTREMELY less effective and this is a HUGE nerf so i think he needs a tiny buff on his up-tilt and maybe up-smash

The time between when the d-tilt hits and when you can grab them is exactly the same...

 

[Blank Mauser]

Doesn't the move still trip? Thats more then enough time for a grab.

 

[iLink]

Samus' usmash still doesn't really work right with me, besides the fact that it is easier to get the first hit in.

I didn't get the chance to try out DDD, mostly because I didn't notice until now that he was tweaked XD

I'll give more feedback in a bit.

 

[CountKaiser]

then does it really need a buff?

That was the buffed version that just gave stats for. =/

 

[Mattnumbers]

Frozen Popo......both of those moves are rarely used because they suck.........moreso with Ness's Fsmash then Lucas's Upsmash.

Anyways, I LOVE Ness's new dair, its so amazing. I really feel that after these buffs he doesn't need any more, his amazing Dair is a good balancing factor. He has that crazy SSB64 combo again!!!!!!!!!! SH dair/falling Dair -> fullhop Dair -> SH dair -> Fullhop Dair. I love it so much its unreal

Anyways, I also like the DDD buff, FF Nair is fun especially since DDD drops like a rock. Mario's uair is easier to chain together, I like it, same with Tinks Bair.

I still need to try out Samus's new Upsmash.

 

[I LAG]

does anyone agree that mk needs an up-tilt or maybe an up-smash buff?

i think that mks up-tilt should get a hitbox buff making it wider or taller or a knock back buff so it can kill all/most at 130%ish or less

 

[timothyung]

A fix to MK's up smash to make the three hits connect to each other better would be ok, I think.

 

[I LAG]

you could nerf mks up-air and give it ALOT LESS KBG

 

[timothyung]

you could nerf mks up-air and give it ALOT LESS KBG

It would be a buff, not a nerf.
With less KBG uair will combo to hell

 

[I LAG]

It would be a buff, not a nerf.
With less KBG uair will combo to hell

shhhhhhhh!!!

 

[JCaesar]

MK doesn't need any buffs of any kind. Even with the dtilt nerf he's still easily top 3.

 

[KAN]

So, the only change Bowser got was a nerf to his fire breath?
lolwut?

 

[Revven]

Boozer just got Utilt and Usmash hitbox size increases.... that's a HUGE buff to Bowser, I don't think he'll need anything else after doing that. =\

 

[cubaisdeath]

definitely not. thats gonna **** now. uair can be a very good kill move now. maybe it will feel a little like melee bowser

 

[shanus]

Samus' usmash still doesn't really work right with me, besides the fact that it is easier to get the first hit in.

I didn't get the chance to try out DDD, mostly because I didn't notice until now that he was tweaked XD

I'll give more feedback in a bit.

It works on almost all characters on the game barring a few. Its amazing how hard that moving hitbox can be to link together :-\

 

[timothyung]

It works on almost all characters on the game barring a few. Its amazing how hard that moving hitbox can be to link together :-\

Did you try adjusting the knockback angle of the hitboxes? And the BKB?

 

[Wingflier]

If you want too help Samus, you need to fix her shield roll speed.

If I'm not mistaken, it's the slowest in the game. Which is pretty devastating to her, as she is already a slower moving character, at least compared with the rest.

It was maybe a little more acceptable for her to roll so slowly in vBrawl because everybody moved and attacked so much more slowly. But now that the game pace has sped up so significantly, her rolls make her so easily punishable it's almost not even worth it against faster characters...

This may have something to do with the fact that she only got 1 vote on the top 10 list.

 

[shanus]

Did you try adjusting the knockback angle of the hitboxes? And the BKB?

lol yeah, it ain;t my first time fixing hitboxes

The issue with it was trying to make it have enough to suck up smaller characters into its second hitbox, but if you raise it much more than its current, heavies can SDI out on the first hit. Its a very fine, annoying line.