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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

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Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Cause I link them to you, and we laugh. I think we should pursue this 'supposed to be' avenue. I'm pretty sure no one could beat Ganondorf then except for Link...that ****er.

On topic, I think this is a great nightly build. Personally, I think a lot of the Link changes feel superfluous, but if the Link mains think it suddenly makes him great and fun then whatever...
I think more people should check it out and give feedback other than like 3 or 4 Link players. I'll give it a try in a minute and give my super-biased opinion lol

lol Toxicorw reminds me of me when i first started posting....181 posts ago......good times......I got flammed quite a bit XD
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
Let's keep this to discussing nightly builds please and not begging for buffs. Keep posts with constructive criticisms and intelligent please.
I'm quoting this, but supersizing the text for extra effect.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
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2,512
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oakland
shanus, I see what you are trying to do in your Nightly Build, but I have some disagreements. I notice that the hitstun is lower (than 4.0), in an attempt to make the game faster. However, this is not a good combination with the landing lag. Kupo's set has less landing lag, which makes combos much more conistant, and better. After all, combos are fun to pull off! Just a suggestion, but you should lower the landing lag just a bit.

On a side note, I like what you have done with Captain Falcon's short hop! However, it is TOO short; this is hard to work with: He can't do many arials after the start of the jump, and by the time he is at the peak of the jump, he cannot get many arials in. Just raise his jump a little, and he could be more fun to play with, and can consistently combo.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
^ this might be the reason why Brawl+ may fail in the fututre.
Making things too easy, you gotta get used to it, espciallyif no one else is complaining about it. No to put you down or anything but its the whole fact of making everything easier to do just cuz you're not used to it, which may be the reason why some people may drop Brawl+. Thats only if the coders listen to them that is.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
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No, I play Brawl+, but combos are way harder to do now, consistently, at least. In Version 3.3, for example, Captain Falcon, Falco, and many others could combo very well, and consistently. Meh, maybe "easier" wasn't the right word. I will edit my post.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
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No, I play Brawl+, but combos are way harder to do now, consistently, at least. In Version 3.3, for example, Captain Falcon, Falco, and many others could combo very well, and consistently. Meh, maybe "easier" wasn't the right word. I will edit my post.
No, the right word was indeed "easier." Not to mention it's completely your imagination as nothing about them has changed that would make it harder to combo for them since 3.3.

And you wonder why the broom doesn't listen to people like you.

Huh? Isn't it at 4.685 or something weird like that?
.4865, where the vbrawl default was .4000. And in fact, .4865 is the highest the plussery set has been in hitstun for a while now. I can't actually remember the last time we went above .4865 hitstun.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
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Playing melee and smash ultimate
Probably, it is always something wierd, lol. IDK what it was earlier.

Please, leafgreen, I already said that I DON'T CARE. RLY, just rant all you want, but nothing will change my ideas, especially the fact that I consider you extremely nosy and annoying, to be dead honest. Complain to someone who cares. If you absolutely wont keep it to yourself, pm me whatever you want to say instead of wasting space here.
I answered your question in my post. I suggest you read it.

That makes two of us.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Umm....chillax dudes?
ANYWAYZ new set.
The changes with Link are pretty cool, they fit him well.
The upB thing is intresting tho, behind him is the strong hitbox and the front is the semi spike/strong hitbox? Idk if the cpu learned how to DI in the last few days but I'll need an actual person to try this out on. Maybe I can find some1 2morow.
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
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1,059
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Kentucky
The cookiemonster vision

Please understand what I am saying, people, as I just want Ness as a playable character.
I totally understand. Kirby buffs to make him better then MK plz. Cuz thats how it's suppose to be. I mean do you watch the tv show? Kirby is the main dude. He is pink and cute and metaknight is a badass but he is evil. At least i think, sometimes he helps kirby. Omg, this means we have to make sure that DDD always stays worse then both of them. This is how it is suppose to be. While we are at it, bring back Mewtwo and make him the best character in brawl. Like broken good. No pokemon should even be able to touch him. Cuz i watched that one movie and yea, thats how it was. And wtf, i just realized Luigi is higher on the tier list then mario. NERFS!!! Perhaps, we should make a list of how things should be, then we can make are own tier list. Yea, what a great idea! Peach should be nerfed as well and be completly ub-able to beat bower. I mean, ive never seen a game where Peach didnt get captured. Soo yea, bowser has to be better. So, im sry lucas mainers, i mean your cool and all, but Ness is SUPPOSE to be better.

Someone plz shut the cookie jar.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
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693
This isnt gonna turn out well....well I gave my feedback on Link so Im outta here before anyone hurt digitally.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
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Fine, you people wanna flame me, just do it. I don't care. I guess i wont post my ideas anymore, and I wont flame leafgreen anymore. just calm down people, this is a Nightly Build thread, and not a "lets flame cookiemonster" thread. Lets PLEASE stay on topic. I'll now edit all of my posts to get rid of flaming.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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Mar 14, 2008
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Playing Melee
You've got the wrong guy, sorry, I never talked about the ledge mechanics ever except at one point agreeing about the ledge distance needing to be toned down SLIGHTLY (not in an incredible amount).
My apologies
Hey, there's a problem with Link's standing up-b. It skips one of the "strong" hitboxes in front... still hits with it in back, though. It's because of the frame speed change.
Ahh ok. Is there any frame data so I can speed it up when the hitboxes end?

And the main concern I have with my newest release is jump heights. Please let me know if they are too high
 

XSilvenX

Smash Lord
Joined
May 29, 2007
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1,166
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Brooklyn, New York
5/13 Codeset

Fine, you people wanna flame me, just do it. I don't care. I guess i wont post my ideas anymore, and I wont flame leafgreen anymore. just calm down people, this is a Nightly Build thread, and not a "lets flame cookiemonster" thread. Lets PLEASE stay on topic. I'll now edit all of my posts to get rid of flaming.
Nothing against you Cookie but umm we really should stay on topic here. :ohwell:

Ness Suggestions..
Oh and Ness is already playable ^_^. If you don't wanna get gimped learn to recover on par with the stage or high (with fastfall mindgames). You really should never be using your up-b with Ness anyway. That's how it is with him for all games although I do know there are times where you simply HAVE TO. But yeah, to be honest if you guys could buff his 2nd jump to like broken status Ness' recovery wouldn't be an issue because you would just be able to 2nd jump back on like in 64 ^_^. A La Melee Yoshi...


Link
In regards to Link. He feels pretty solid, didn't find much wrong but from what others are saying it looks like there's an up-b problem..? I didn't mess with it a lot so I dunno. I love that upsmash connects the way it's supposed to now and his gravity changes feel pretty good.

Lucario
I sorta think his vertical recovery is borderline broken but I spoke to Ninjalink earlier and he emphasized the fact that the up-b has no hitbox...I then said, well now it does since it doesn't go into free fall anymore (which I'm all for by the way) I just didn't like how it extended the move's range by 50% and on top of that you can immediately do a f-air or something. It rivals Sonic's up-b now which is kind of funny because it only goes that far when you go vertical. I guess it's a double edged sword because if you really think about it, it's really predictable for someone to always try to go straight up. I'm pretty neutral about the whole thing really, I don't care either way....

Wolf
Shine feels like it should...I don't know what the frame 15 - 2.5X thing is about honestly, I can't tell any difference.
 

cubaisdeath

Smash Lord
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Concord
The real reason I want it is because sometimes when you Bstick you do PK Freeze instead of PKfire/Psimagnet. If I do PK Freeze with it (It happens when you hit exactly in the corner of the c-stick, which is easy to do when trying to wavebounce) when I'm over the edge I fall to my death helpless.
learn to do it normally, then you won't have that problem
 

camelot

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
597
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Northfield, MN
Is there any frame data so I can speed it up when the hitboxes end?
I don't have it, sorry. You'd have to use the "debug pause" to see when it ends... I guess.

Also, I don't see any change in Wolf's shine, either... maybe you're speeding up the wrong Action ID? I'm guessing there's three different IDs for the reflector: one for the start-up, one for "holding" it, and one for the ending lag.
 

goodoldganon

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,946
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
B-sticking is fine. I'm sorry, you'll just have to get better at it. We have already begun a slippery slope in making Brawl+ too easy play.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
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6,021
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Orlando Florida
It is much faster and easier to do with the c-stick, not to mention more convenient. There is really no reason learn to do it the other way unless your dead set to smash/aerial with the C-stick.
You mean you'd trade the ability to fine tune your aerial spacing for the ability to...make recoil specials a little easier?
 

Nybb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
399
Location
Victoria, BC
I say get rid of the Ness multiple up-B's and give him DJC. Give some players an opportunity to use fast fingers in Brawl+. Then people who didn't like it could just play Lucas, since he is mostly the same as Ness right now anyway; the people who like it can have some sweet combos to reward their practicing, and the Mother boys will finally have something to distinguish them. Everyone wins.

Also, I would just like to say keep up the good work to all the coders. Brawl+ is turning out to be a lot of fun; I don't intend to ever play vBrawl again. The nightly builds are getting really solid.
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
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I say get rid of the Ness multiple up-B's and give him DJC. Give some players an opportunity to use fast fingers in Brawl+. Then people who didn't like it could just play Lucas, since he is mostly the same as Ness right now anyway;



Seriously dude. No. Just no. That's just wroonngggggg
 

Me_Aludes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
144
IMO, this needs to be fixed. I am really against the fact that hitting the shield or whatever during the up b causes auto sweet spotting. I know, falco400, that your reasoning (because I remember you saying it before) is going to be, "if you get hit by the move, you already failed at edge guarding so they should sweet spot" and I have to completely disagree with that statement. You are removing options and helping the person who is supposed to be at the disadvantage for no reason. Basically, with this logic, it is taboo for me to shield your poorly sweet spotted recovery and punish with a shield grab, or JC usmash, or JC aerial, or JC up b or if I have enough, shield drop jab or whatever. There is nothing wrong with offensively using your shield to edge guard and you should not be forbidden to do so.
Mmm... removing that is also helping the person who is going to kill the opponent for no reason. Edgeguarding has a really, really high reward, more than any other action in the game. Giving more options for edgeguarding it's making it less risky, which seems unfair to me.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't care if you don't sweetspot when hitting a shield (i think you're right, there's nothing bad with using it offensively), but I'm really like the fact that you sweetspot when u hit the opponent. Opponent's fault. It makes edgeguarding more challenging, while keeping it possible.
 

ToxiCrow

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
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Long Island, New York
It is much faster and easier to do with the c-stick, not to mention more convenient. There is really no reason learn to do it the other way unless your dead set to smash/aerial with the C-stick.
its actually very easy to do without the c-stick and it'll only take several minutes to learn.
theres really no need to b-stick anymore because it's easier to manually wavebounce in B+ than in vbrawl.
in vbrawl, u had to keep people away from you to avoid getting chaingrab infinitely (and bstick provided u with easier wavebouncing to keep space between you and the opponent). Lucas doesnt hav that problem anymore; so just keep ur c-stick to smash because his aerials nto eachother real well


Then people who didn't like it could just play Lucas, since he is mostly the same as Ness right now anyway;
other than the names of their specials, they play nothing alike. at all
 

lonelytraveler8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
259
I'm still playing around with all the various characters, as I've only just had the chance to get this setup a few days ago. Everything feels so different, so I'm bouncing around alot, thus I can't make any solid suggestions on anything just yet (not to mention, in the past day, 9+ pages were added to this thread and I don't feel like reading them just yet). I can say this, though:

MK's Tornado is nerfed. When Kirby copies MK, his tornado should follow the same rules. Just a random thing I noticed while fooling around with friends.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
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MK's Tornado is nerfed. When Kirby copies MK, his tornado should follow the same rules. Just a random thing I noticed while fooling around with friends.
Intentional. Completely intentional, although the Kirby bit is not going to happen as Kirby's Tornado 1. Doesn't distort match-ups 2. Can only happen during Kirby VS. MK and 3. Has much lower priority and range than MK's tornado does.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
On the topic of sweet-spotting the edge when you hi the opponent. I like that idea, why should the person recovering get punished for nearly making it there? If the edge0guarder doesnt succeed in gimping then thats their punishment, either getting hit or allowing the person to grab the edge. Keep it I say.

I still think Ivy shouldnt be able to rapid fire razor leaf. And I heard youre taking care of the multiple upB so I'll leave it at that.
 

TLMSheikant

Smash Master
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Ivy is fine with the rapid fire side b I guess gives him a way to camp but his upB is kinda ******** right now. Falco400- how is the toon link fsmash fix going? I want a fire arrow effect :p(not buffing the arrows theyre good enough already). After the fsmash fix IDK if tink needs anything else...other than making his useless moves useful...which the majority of ppl here seem to be against and tink doesnt really need it so yeah.
 

TLMSheikant

Smash Master
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Ftilt is slow, range doesnt compensate and doesnt kill till VERY high percents lol. Pretty useless. UpB can be DI'd or shielded and u get punished sometimes for doing it (at least in vbrawl) in this one its harder to SDI cause of almost/no hitlag but it can still be shielded between hits. But like I said tink prolly doesnt need any buffs. And yes, fire arrows would be great eye candy.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
693
In general Tlink's range isnt that good.
Most multi-hit moves are SDI able
Tlink has other kill options such as utilt, usmash, fsmash, dsmash, bair, fair, nair. one less kill move isnt gonna hurt espically if his others moves are faster.
He's okay as is, maybe they'll look into him in the future
 

JCaesar

Smash Hero
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Ivy is fine with the rapid fire side b I guess gives him a way to camp
I dunno, I personally don't think we should be encouraging camping for any characters. In fact I don't even think Falco should be able to double laser in a short hop. But that's just me.

Which of tlinks moves is useless?
Fire arrows would be cool eye candy tho.
I support this!
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
693
^ another hater of campers, I like it.
I think certain characters should be able to camp if it fits their moveset. Snake for instance. Ivysaur heck no, have you ever been camped by a dandelion? Exactly. A super special awesome secret agent? More likely
 

Revven

FrankerZ
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The problem with Fire Arrows is that they won't have a firey effect as they are shot (before hitting the opponent) like YL's Fire Arrows do in Melee, it would just be a plain arrow and then when it hits it would have the firey effect. I don't THINK there is an effect to put fire ON an object or item as it is moving like there was in Melee for YL's fire arrows.

In other words, it would look weird.
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Aww there goes that idea lol.
What about a fire effect on the last hit of his fsmash?..........still too weird
 
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