Joke or not, I responded with a perfectly clear response and you somehow completely misinterpreted it.
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Oh my bad. I'll just wait for that to happen.Joke or not, I responded with a perfectly clear response and you somehow completely misinterpreted it.
against Marth where were all the turnips?guys check out this kick *** peach sorry if im off topic http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/shuffle-and-cut-edreesespieces-vs-jamez.html
XD I know I tend to do that alot.You just answered your own question.
When logic fails brute prevails.Classy.
That video proved nothing. Edrees played quite badly, relatively speaking.guys check out this kick *** peach sorry if im off topic http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/08/shuffle-and-cut-edreesespieces-vs-jamez.html
Your argument would've fine just stopping there. the rest was just overkill. XDYou're a ****ing moron.
I want to know how the other top characters can compete against them. If other high tier characters can compete against Snake/Meta, then nothing should be done about Snake and Meta, but if the other characters can compete with Snake/Meta, when why are those 2 obliterating the competetive scene. If all of the great players just use Snake/Meta, how can any other character even place remotely consistent?What happened to "They're just easier to play on a technical level!"?
Because I could care less. Nobody cares about how novices do in Competitive play against other novices.
Any one else catch this quote? I did, great show btw."Your [opinion] is bad and you should feel bad!"
Lower tiered characters will always have to fight harder. Azen can only go so far with Lucario.It's called a character having more tools and requiring less effort to win as.
The instance you ***** about losing because the character had a good match up against another, you lose all credibility. And if you hate the game so much, get the hell out of the Brawl boards and go ***** in the Melee section.The fact of the matter is, people lose to other people they shouldn't lose to thanks to how broken some characters are. It's just an unfair, stupid game.
Well, that makes sense. Thanks.Lower tiered characters will always have to fight harder. Azen can only go so far with Lucario.
Novice players will not beat seasoned ones, however, even if they're using Low Tiers because they will have little experience and "mindgames". But, Snake, Meat, G&W, D3 and others require much less effort to win as than some other characters.
It's how Competitive gaming works.
Lowered tiered in general (and with a bad matchup against the opposing character).EDIT: Yuna, when you say lower tiered, do you mean lower than the top characters, or are you inferring Lucario is low tier?
Not really. Not Lucario and DK. Probably not Marth. Falco and R.O.B. will probably be able to do pretty well. Wario and D3 hot on their heels. But G&W, Snake and MK are looking like mighty fine characters at the moment.But, one thing though, do you think that other high tiers like G&W, Lucario, Wario, Marth, ROB, Falco, DK, etc. will ever come close to matching Snake/Meta/D3 in tourney outings? I could care less about low tier character players if they are not being beaten by great high tier players and low tier characters in general, but shouldn't something be done about Snake/Meta if there is very little to no chance that the other high tiers can actually catch up to those 2?
No.. Kirby's recovery is alot worse, so is Fox's.Everyone's recovery's gotten a boost. Yoshi's is still largely the same, though, still one of the worst in the game.
Except they're not dead once their 2nd jumps are gone. And they can meteor cancel. Kirby's recovery is friggin' good in this game because he's so floaty and he has 4 jumps + Up B. His recovery is not the best, but it's far from Yoshi-like.No.. Kirby's recovery is alot worse, so is Fox's.
I can honestly say, as a Kirby main, that Kirby's recovery went from "Ok" to "amazing" in Brawl. The addition of the horizontal hammer means kirby can actually recover with NO jumps. He's either dead, or he's back on stage, thats about it.No.. Kirby's recovery is alot worse, so is Fox's.
Temporary amnesia. I totally forgot about horizontal hammer for a while there.I can honestly say, as a Kirby main, that Kirby's recovery went from "Ok" to "amazing" in Brawl. The addition of the horizontal hammer means kirby can actually recover with NO jumps. He's either dead, or he's back on stage, thats about it.
Go to melee forums and *****, no one needs to hear you whine.ugh brawl was made for n00bz anything can be used to recover nuff said
Never refuted that but al-x was being a generic Melee troll.Recovery in Brawl was simplified for casuals and new players though...
Sort of.Falconv1.0 said:Mids in Melee could get up there in tourneys alone, in Brawl, most mids are generally counterpicks from what I've seen.
I agree with this, but weren't people saying you can't use a good player as an example of viability before when comparing Azen and Lucario?Falconv1.0 said:I wouldn't say everyone was viable in Melee, but I mean people like Neo existed, and they were pretty ****ing awesome with those bad characters, lol.
For one the top and high need to be combined into a new top, or at least Sheik and Marth.IrArby said:Also RedRyu: if some of the Melee lows should be in the mids where should we put those mids? Create a low, upper, and middle middle tier?
Lucario (16 top8, 9 top4, 5 top2, 5 wins)Yuna said:Name said mids and how well they're doing in tournaments.
This is assuming everyone sucks who is playing or playing against, which I've seen you claim they suck without any proof other than the character used.Yuna said:Why wouldn't they? People play as all kinds of characters in all kinds of games. It doesn't mean they're viable. For one thing, the majority of attendees at tournaments aren't even that good. Thus, they don't necessarily do everything in their power to win. Thus, they don't care if they're playing a character which gets destroyed against the Big 7.
Way to be a ****.Yuna said:Yes, because your opinion is obviously law.
Well, we either need to examin the likes of Azen, Gimpyfish, and other players from both games and use them as examples of how even a less than great character is relatively balanced and can compete against the highest tiers, or we need to discredit evidence of all great low tier character users as being "exceptional," and thus do not apply to the debate.i heard you can't just use Azen, cause he's just 1 person, and has always placed well with low tiers. i guess its because no one else has been able to replicate Azen's skill with lower tier characters that we can't throw his name around like an example.
i hear other Bowsers were able to replicate Gimpy's Bowser.
Gimpy's Bowser, M2K's Mewtwo, who cares? Pick whichever low-tier users you want from the two games.Me hears that amongst the professional players, Gimpy isn't one of the best in terms of technical skill.
Then again, that's what I heard somewhere.
The problem is Lucario is pretty ****ing good, lol. There's a difference between Melee Bowser with Gimpy and Azen with Lucario.I agree with his, but weren't people saying you can't use a good player as an example of viability before when comparing Azen and Lucario?
I am aware of that, but Yuna doesn't see much Lucario potential, and keeps going on about how it's all Azen. Due to this mindset, it makes it difficult to argue with him that there are a large number of very viable Brawl characters, as he often dismisses a lot of the high tiers. A better example may have been Tudor's Samus (although I don't know how he places in tournaments).The problem is Lucario is pretty ****ing good, lol. There's a difference between Melee Bowser with Gimpy and Azen with Lucario.
Consensus.ignoring Azen and Yuna. Lucario is good and can place high, probably even win. we just haven't heard of a bunch of other Lucarios winning other than Azens.
Ankoku mentioned somewhere that both him and Gimpy lack somewhat in technical skill.
if other players can replicate similar results then its and example, if only one or two well known for doing so players, A-al-Azen, then its an exception. what more do you need?
you know i actually had to look up that word. XDConsensus.
I wish I was that good.you know i actually had to look up that word. XD
although since Yuna is headstrong in believing that low tiers placing well are usually something like and exception or, like with Tudor, fault with the opponents not being good against Samus you could alwyas go prove their viability, and Yuna wrong yourself. by being the first example and then having followers. that could help your PT argument better.
Edit: this is not to start another PT thing, since thats gone on way too, much this message is for THC.
What this says to me is the top 4-5 chars are more balanced then the tier list would suggest and by moving everyone up and increasing the size of the Top, High, and Mid tiers that everyone is more viable against the tops. This would suggest that Melee is more balanced since we're talking about boosting everyone up since the tier doesn't do them justice.For one the top and high need to be combined into a new top, or at least Sheik and Marth.
Then the upper mid could be bumped up to high and every ranking gets a shove upward.
So the top of mid and low go up a rank, so to speak.