Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[Dark Sonic]

So, I just got GGXX:AC for the wii and I must say.

That game is ****ing hard! And every character seems completely broken, until compared to the other characters, which are also broken lol. But IMO, what I think gives GG such great balance is the overall fighting system that it uses. The characters get to be completely broken...because the system will most likely be able to balance it out anwyay.

 

[RDK]

Umm, Tekken TT is incredibly imba, at least moreso than in its early stages.

And while SF2 is one of the most balanced games out there, most of the other games in the franchise suffer from imbalanced rosters too (Alpha series, Third Strike, etc.).

If you're looking for balanced fighters, GG, Melty Blood, and Arcana Heart would be your best bet.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wasn't it melty blood/GGXX considered among the most balanced out of all the fighters currently?

Or am I waaaaay wrong?

 

[Yuna]

GGXX, yes. MBAC? Probably not.

The results of one of Europe's largest MB tournies were literally:
1. Mech Hisui
2. Hisui
3. Some other character
4. Hisui

Would it surprise you to know that Mech Hisui is God Tier and Hisui is Top Tier?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

If you're looking for balanced fighters, GG, Melty Blood, and Arcana Hearts would be your best bet.

yay someone other than me plays Arcana Heart

but um whats Melty Blood?

 

[ShadowLink84]

GGXX, yes. MBAC? Probably not.

The results of one of Europe's largest MB tournies were literally:
1. Mech Hisui
2. Hisui
3. Some other character
4. Hisui

Would it surprise you to know that Mech Hisui is God Tier and Hisui is Top Tier?

Hell no it wouldn't.
If mech hisui is god tier though why not ban her?
Is it the same thing with Snake where she has characters countering her?

 

[Zankoku]

Mecha Hisui is NOT god tier. Those crazy Europeans.

sekuhara: S:Ciel(83)Len(81)Sion(77)Warc(77)
sekuhara: A:Miyako(69)Akiha(67)Mecha(66)Kouma(59)Hisui(58)Nero(53)
sekuhara: B:Vsion(47)Nanaya(44)Arc(43)Satsuki(40)Aoko(39)vakiha(35)
sekuhara: C:Hisukoha(26)Tohno(26)Wara(24)wlen(24)kohaku(23)
sekuhara: characters were rated from S(4 points) to C(1 point) by all of the top players

 

[RDK]

In Guilty Gear, even the characters in the low tiers have a **** good chance at beating the characters in the top tier. It's an extremely balanced game.

S Tier: Eddie

A Tier: Jam, Slayer

B Tier: Robo Ky, Millia, Dizzy

C Tier: Bridget, Sol

D Tier: Axl, Faust, Venom

F Tier: Ky, Testament, Zappa, Johnny, May

G Tier: Chipp, Anji

Edit: The above list is for #Reload; I'm not 100% sure about Accent Core. So yeah, if you're looking for balance, try GG, Melty Blood, or Arcana Heart.

Edit 2: Here's one for Slash:

S: Ky

A: Sol, Anji, Baiken, Jam, Faust

B: Aba, Pot, Buri, May, Millia, Johnny, Axl, Testament, Slayer, Chipp

C: Venom, I-No, HOS, Zappa, Eddie, Dizzy

D: Robo-Ky

 

[Yuna]

Mecha Hisui is NOT god tier. Those crazy Europeans.

sekuhara: S:Ciel(83)Len(81)Sion(77)Warc(77)
sekuhara: A:Miyako(69)Akiha(67)Mecha(66)Kouma(59)Hisui(58)Nero(53)
sekuhara: B:Vsion(47)Nanaya(44)Arc(43)Satsuki(40)Aoko(39)vakiha(35)
sekuhara: C:Hisukoha(26)Tohno(26)Wara(24)wlen(24)kohaku(23)
sekuhara: characters were rated from S(4 points) to C(1 point) by all of the top players

I though Mech Hisui was S-tier. A-tier then, I guess. I believe Ciel was the one who came in 3rd or 2nd or 4th (unsure of the placing, I'm pretty sure the other two Top 4 placers were Hisuis, though).

So a Ciel, a Mech Hisui and two Hisuis made up the Top 4. One S-Tier and two A-Tiers. Wait, Kitty Girl (Len) is S-Tier? I had no idea :D. I just chose her as my main (I don't play much, though) because I like her style :D ("Summon Kitty!" FTW!). Yuna's Unintended Tierwhoredness Strikes Again!

Millia Rage in #Reload (5th best), Chun Li in the various Street Fighter games (Top Tier in 3S, 2nd best, pretty high up in most other games IIRC), Xianghua in SCII and subsequently SCIII (Best character in the game in II, Top Tier, best or 2nd best, in PS3 version of III), Itachi (Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, 4th best character, IMO), Peach in Melee (High Tier all the way, below Top, 5th best), Zelda, Pit and Toon Link for Brawl (and we all know where they stand), Len for Melty Blood: Act Cadenza (apparently S-Tier and 2nd best).

I often unintentionally pick the 2nd best or 5th characters in the game!

 

[AlexX]

I though Mech Hisui was S-tier. A-tier then, I guess. I believe Ciel was the one who came in 3rd or 2nd or 4th (unsure of the placing, I'm pretty sure the other two Top 4 placers were Hisuis, though).

So a Ciel, a Mech Hisui and two Hisuis made up the Top 4. One S-Tier and two A-Tiers. Wait, Kitty Girl (Len) is S-Tier? I had no idea :D. I just chose her as my main (I don't play much, though) because I like her style :D ("Summon Kitty!" FTW!). Yuna's Unintended Tierwhoredness Strikes Again!

Millia Rage in #Reload (5th best), Chun Li in the various Street Fighter games (Top Tier in 3S, 2nd best, pretty high up in most other games IIRC), Xianghua in SCII and subsequently SCIII (Best character in the game in II, Top Tier, best or 2nd best, in PS3 version of III), Itachi (Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, 4th best character, IMO), Peach in Melee (High Tier all the way, below Top, 5th best), Zelda, Pit and Toon Link for Brawl (and we all know where they stand), Len for Melty Blood: Act Cadenza (apparently S-Tier and 2nd best).

I often unintentionally pick the 2nd best or 5th characters in the game!

I'm jealous, Yuna. I'm the exact opposite: With the exception of Olimar in Brawl, I keep picking characters that end up being low-tier (even if I mostly just play Smash and Soul Calibur as far as fighting games go... yeah, I'm weird like that).

 

[RDK]

Millia Rage in #Reload (5th best), Chun Li in the various Street Fighter games (Top Tier in 3S, 2nd best, pretty high up in most other games IIRC), Xianghua in SCII and subsequently SCIII (Best character in the game in II, Top Tier, best or 2nd best, in PS3 version of III), Itachi (Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, 4th best character, IMO), Peach in Melee (High Tier all the way, below Top, 5th best), Zelda, Pit and Toon Link for Brawl (and we all know where they stand), Len for Melty Blood: Act Cadenza (apparently S-Tier and 2nd best).

I often unintentionally pick the 2nd best or 5th characters in the game!

Faust in GG, M. Bison in the various Street Fighter Games, Ryo Sakazaki in King of Fighters, Link in SCII (Yoshimitsu in SCII), Armour King in Tekken, Falco in Melee, Kirby in Brawl, Ciel in Melty Blood, and Magneto / Sentinal / Storm in MvC2.

This is so off-topic. :D

 

[Yuna]

Faust in GG, M. Bison in the various Street Fighter Games, Ryo Sakazaki in King of Fighters, Link in SCII (Yoshimitsu in SCII), Armour King in Tekken, Falco in Melee, Kirby in Brawl, Ciel in Melty Blood, and Magneto / Sentinal / Storm in MvC2.

This is so off-topic. :D

Were you at all aware of your mains' Tier placings before choosing them, though? Your choice of Magneto, Sentinel, Storm indicates you were.

I was not aware of any of my mains' Tier placings except for in Itachi's case where I purposely switched to him just for fun for one tournament and decided to stick with him (though I do have a Special Counter in TenTen). The rest, I picked blindly. Oh and I forgot about the King of Fighters because it's been a while.

I main Mai Shiranui (I believe she's Top Tier or at least very, very good in KoF XI?) there. With Athena Asamiyu as my secondary, but I rarely ever use her.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Wow Miyako is Top Tier in MB?!

>_< I have to pick a new main... I never play top tier characters

 

[LavisFiend]

Faust in GG, M. Bison in the various Street Fighter Games, Ryo Sakazaki in King of Fighters, Link in SCII (Yoshimitsu in SCII), Armour King in Tekken, Falco in Melee, Kirby in Brawl, Ciel in Melty Blood, and Magneto / Sentinal / Storm in MvC2.

This is so off-topic. :D

You're welcome. XD

But seriously though....

F-Zero GX FTW!

I've never even heard of melty blood before.

Oh god is it anime ****?! D=

 

[Yuna]

You're welcome. XD

But seriously though....

F-Zero GX FTW!

I've never even heard of melty blood before.

Oh god is it anime ****?! D=

Melty Blood is a 2D fighting game whose engine is based, in part, on that of the Guilty Gear-series. Based, inspired, ripped off, whatever. There's, for example, the same system of canceling weaker moves into stronger ones (on hit or block), Damage Scaling, a Dust-like move with largely the same properties, a kind of Destroy (one hit KO, needs to enter a Special Mode which costs Special Meter first... the meter will slowly drain 'til fully drained!), air teching, same mechanics for Clashing, Air dashing (for some).

Melty Blood is also based on the Tsukihime (hentai) Dating Game series and is thus "manga/anime-based", yes. Since it's a doujinshi game based on a doujinshi game, its artwork is clearly not on the same scale as Guilty Gear.

As an aside, for yet another anime-based fighting game that blatantly rips off Guilty Gear (and quite amusingly the King of Fighters), there's Maribato ("Maria-sama Beats You Up"). It's a Doujin 2D game in part based on the GG-engine with character movesets based on those of the characters of, among others, GG and KoF. There's one who's a blatant ripoff of Mai Shiranui, for example. Needless to say, she's my main :D. There's also a blatant King rip-off and a blatant Whip ripoff.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I'm jealous, Yuna. I'm the exact opposite: With the exception of Olimar in Brawl, I keep picking characters that end up being low-tier (even if I mostly just play Smash and Soul Calibur as far as fighting games go... yeah, I'm weird like that).

Lol, just like me. I end up unintentionally picking either low tier or mid tier at highest. But Smash is the only game I've been to tournaments before, except for the one Soul Calibur tournament I went to at my school.

 

[Yuna]

Lol, just like me. I end up unintentionally picking either low tier or mid tier at highest. But Smash is the only game I've been to tournaments before, except for the one Soul Calibur tournament I went to at my school.

And yet you both picked Olimar... hmmmm... :D.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Yeah, and I played Zelda in Melee..

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, and I played Zelda in Melee..

No, I just mean that it's funny that you both picked Olimar. But it's not yet as funny as the fact that most male LGBT Smashers main Peach at least in Melee.

Heck, a lot of Casual LGBT players use Peach as well!

 

[Fawriel]

... This is the first time I've seen Yuna smile.

I need to lie down for a bit.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm sick and tired of "Brawl is too young!". If that's the case, then no discussion is possible on the depth of Brawl... at all. Because it's too young, everything might change tomorrow. We can discuss Brawl with everything we know insofar. In everything changes tomorrow, so be it.

6 months into the game, I believe there's been enough time to at least see some of the balance in the game, even if we might be inaccurate.

Despite the fact the world has been barely explored and some evidence is inaccurate we can safely say the world is flat.

:/

 

[Corigames]

Despite the fact the world has been barely explored and some evidence is inaccurate we can safely say the world is flat.

:/

Shut-up. You haven't explored the whole world or gone to space, you can't claim that the world isn't flat. All you know is what you've been told and nothing more. I'm sure we can assume the same is for Brawl. I explored Melee for nearly 2 years now and I'm still making discoveries in it every time I play. Yet, in the life of Brawl, what has changed fundamentally? Nothing.

When you explored the world, you can dispute its flatness. When you explored Brawl, you can dispute its flatness, and, at this point, no one should be doing that. At the same time though, everyone can, because there is very little to explore.

 

[Redson]

Melty Blood is a 2D fighting game whose engine is based, in part, on that of the Guilty Gear-series. Based, inspired, ripped off, whatever. There's, for example, the same system of canceling weaker moves into stronger ones (on hit or block), Damage Scaling, a Dust-like move with largely the same properties, a kind of Destroy (one hit KO, needs to enter a Special Mode which costs Special Meter first... the meter will slowly drain 'til fully drained!), air teching, same mechanics for Clashing, Air dashing (for some).

Melty Blood is also based on the Tsukihime (hentai) Dating Game series and is thus "manga/anime-based", yes. Since it's a doujinshi game based on a doujinshi game, its artwork is clearly not on the same scale as Guilty Gear.

As an aside, for yet another anime-based fighting game that blatantly rips off Guilty Gear (and quite amusingly the King of Fighters), there's Maribato ("Maria-sama Beats You Up"). It's a Doujin 2D game in part based on the GG-engine with character movesets based on those of the characters of, among others, GG and KoF. There's one who's a blatant ripoff of Mai Shiranui, for example. Needless to say, she's my main :D. There's also a blatant King rip-off and a blatant Whip ripoff.

Nanaya Shiki FTW, Bizatch. I would say he's the most BROKEN character in the game next to Snake *****.

 

[Bomber7]

So... yeah, anyway. Back to the character selection. This may not make a difference at all to any of you but I occasionally spectate matches online. I will admit i have seen some acceptional Olimar and Ganon players. Lol I will bet on a different character and Ganon ends up winning sometimes. These matches were decent too. I'm not saying that they were Tourny material where I'm watching epic masters have at it, but these guys were good. I will admit to those who think they made the "mistake" of chosing Olimar, I do consider Olimar to be a threat. All it takes is the right person and the right style. Ganon, well i havn't run into many Ganon players so I haven't been able to form an opinion on that that. To be honest i could take any character as a threat, even a fellow Link. I play as Toon Link and I take my oppenents seriusly if within the first 10 seconds of the match they show signs of my *** being handed to me. I find the balance in Brawl more challanging. For me it's not so much winning by character match-up, it come right down to more or less skill, style, and how you play the game. Heck for all we know a first timer in a tourny could some how beat a master(with the master not having a bad day).

 

[Corigames]

For me it's not so much winning by character match-up, it come right down to more or less skill, style, and how you play the game. Heck for all we know a first timer in a tourny could some how beat a master(with the master not having a bad day).

Contradictions contradict >_>

 

[Bomber7]

I need to collect my thoughts for a moment. Looking at everyone's comments and replies, thoughts and contridictions, I thought of my game play experience with Pokemon Trainer. I know all players of Brawl are familiar with the abilities of PKT. This is from online experience so it may not make a difference, but sometimes i have those matches where someone wants to copy me and be PKT so they try to pit their Charizard against my Squirtle. When i beat them they think that Squirtle will be God for them and win. Well just to contradict that thought i go to Charizard and beat them again. Now I know what you all will say that in most of these cases if not all it will be because of skill difference. From that kind of experience in my mind right now i have a concept of balance, like a triumverate or what ever it's called. A balance in 3. Not one is better than the other. A Squirtle could just as easily beat a Charizard and vise versa. Same goes for any match up of the three pokemon. If this comment weren't based on my experience of skill difference, it would be easier to go on. Though if there is someone out there who gets what I am saying, good for you.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm not going to respond to specific arguments made against the points I raised, simply because I don't have the time, and I've also realized the futility of internet debates recently so I tend to shy away from writing essays now.

I just wanted to clarify my personal position and reasoning for what I posted before. Note that I said I mostly agreed with Dope's philosophy. When I say mostly, I mean that I do think there are good/bad matchups, yet I think at the MOST extreme they would be something like a 60-40 matchup. And I don't even know what matchups I'd say would fall into that category. Yet I still believe most matchups, especially this early in Brawl, are doable with the right mindset.

Thats the reason I posted what I did. Everyone is complaining how good Snake and MK are, yet I'm coming in, with much more tournament experience in Brawl than many people involved in this debate, and saying that they aren't that incredibly imbalanced, and that there are ways to beat them, and that if you're losing to them all the time, then its a good 90%+ chance that your playstyle is at fault, not the matchup.

Also, I refuse to talk anything about Melee vs Brawl. I think that topic is utterly stupid and useless. I'm only talking about the imbalance in Brawl not being nearly as extreme as many people make it out to be. I'm not trying to prove its more balanced than Melee in any way, shape, or form. Just an FYI.

 

[LavisFiend]

Melty Blood is a 2D fighting game whose engine is based, in part, on that of the Guilty Gear-series. Based, inspired, ripped off, whatever. There's, for example, the same system of canceling weaker moves into stronger ones (on hit or block), Damage Scaling, a Dust-like move with largely the same properties, a kind of Destroy (one hit KO, needs to enter a Special Mode which costs Special Meter first... the meter will slowly drain 'til fully drained!), air teching, same mechanics for Clashing, Air dashing (for some).

Melty Blood is also based on the Tsukihime (hentai) Dating Game series and is thus "manga/anime-based", yes. Since it's a doujinshi game based on a doujinshi game, its artwork is clearly not on the same scale as Guilty Gear.

As an aside, for yet another anime-based fighting game that blatantly rips off Guilty Gear (and quite amusingly the King of Fighters), there's Maribato ("Maria-sama Beats You Up"). It's a Doujin 2D game in part based on the GG-engine with character movesets based on those of the characters of, among others, GG and KoF. There's one who's a blatant ripoff of Mai Shiranui, for example. Needless to say, she's my main :D. There's also a blatant King rip-off and a blatant Whip ripoff.

Wait wait wait....

A hentai fighter?

As in, a fighter using porn characters?

.....Just wow. XD

Wow.

Still though, I don't think that would be my cup of tea because I don't think I could tolerate a game like that of which borrows some very crucial elements of the guilty gear engine. I would probably be sitting there going, "OMG, THEY GOT DUST TOO? FRICKIN' STEALIN' *******S!" or something like that.

Is it a Xbox game or something?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wait wait wait....

A hentai fighter?

As in, a fighter using porn characters?

.....Just wow. XD

Wow.

Still though, I don't think that would be my cup of tea because I don't think I could tolerate a game like that of which borrows some very crucial elements of the guilty gear engine. I would probably be sitting there going, "OMG, THEY GOT DUST TOO? FRICKIN' STEALIN' *******S!" or something like that.

Is it a Xbox game or something?

Its for the PC.
Its actually pretty good despite how it is based off the GG engine.
Just so you know shiki is awesome. >.>

 

[BUNI]

No, I just mean that it's funny that you both picked Olimar. But it's not yet as funny as the fact that most male LGBT Smashers main Peach at least in Melee.

Heck, a lot of Casual LGBT players use Peach as well!

thats stereotyping. but it's true, i mained peach in melee, and now it is ZSS/Samus but still not every gay guy uses peach, we like Marth, Ike, Pit, and Snake aswell. I bet you can guess why.

 

[ShadowLink84]

<.<
*used peach*

 

[Aminar]

Shut-up. You haven't explored the whole world or gone to space, you can't claim that the world isn't flat. All you know is what you've been told and nothing more. I'm sure we can assume the same is for Brawl. I explored Melee for nearly 2 years now and I'm still making discoveries in it every time I play. Yet, in the life of Brawl, what has changed fundamentally? Nothing.

When you explored the world, you can dispute its flatness. When you explored Brawl, you can dispute its flatness, and, at this point, no one should be doing that. At the same time though, everyone can, because there is very little to explore.

I have seen evidence og the earth's curve.
When Taking a ferry across Lake michigan the first thing I saw of Mackinack Island was the highst part, and as I got closer I saw more og the island. Haha.

On topic, I have yet to see how character choise determines all in Brawl. From what I have seen At least half the cast stands a chance against the highest tier characters. In melee The top 6 dominated everybody pretty well. Marth and Peach had trouble with a few random characters, but all in all the top tier almost always won. At worst they are the same, but the higher tiers are bigger.

 

[gantrain05]

thats stereotyping. but it's true, i mained peach in melee, and now it is ZSS/Samus but still not every gay guy uses peach, we like Marth, Ike, Pit, and Snake aswell. I bet you can guess why.

i don't get it, you don't have to be gay to main peach, sorry, maybe SOME people actually pick characters because they are fun to play with, and honestly who wouldn't wanna pick someone sexy as peach or ZSS over someone like wario? gimme a break.

 

[Yuna]

Stuff about Olimar not being good..

Ummm... Olimar is one of the best characters in the game.

I just wanted to clarify my personal position and reasoning for what I posted before. Note that I said I mostly agreed with Dope's philosophy. When I say mostly, I mean that I do think there are good/bad matchups, yet I think at the MOST extreme they would be something like a 60-40 matchup. And I don't even know what matchups I'd say would fall into that category. Yet I still believe most matchups, especially this early in Brawl, are doable with the right mindset.

Which I still very much disagree with. There are much, much worse matchups. In my mind, it's not logical to argue that "at the most extreme", matchups are "60-40" because there have clearly been tons of matchups throughout history that are 10-0 or close to it. If you program a character sucky enough and another one overpowered (especially against the sucky character) enough, then the matchup will be much worse than 60-40.

Thats the reason I posted what I did. Everyone is complaining how good Snake and MK are, yet I'm coming in, with much more tournament experience in Brawl than many people involved in this debate, and saying that they aren't that incredibly imbalanced, and that there are ways to beat them, and that if you're losing to them all the time, then its a good 90%+ chance that your playstyle is at fault, not the matchup.

Only none of us, um, "more knowledgable" Brawl players have said they're unbeatable, that there's no way to play them or that they're incredibly imbalanced versus very single character in the game. In fact, I often point out that it's the whole Top and High vs. everyone else that shows a skew in balance.

Snake and MK are just easy examples.

Also, I refuse to talk anything about Melee vs Brawl. I think that topic is utterly stupid and useless. I'm only talking about the imbalance in Brawl not being nearly as extreme as many people make it out to be. I'm not trying to prove its more balanced than Melee in any way, shape, or form. Just an FYI.

Well, then let's just talk about Brawl's balance. Is it balanced? Is it fairly balanced? Can it even be considered "balanced" instead of "imbalanced"?

Wait wait wait....

A hentai fighter?

As in, a fighter using porn characters?

.....Just wow. XD

Wow.

Still though, I don't think that would be my cup of tea because I don't think I could tolerate a game like that of which borrows some very crucial elements of the guilty gear engine. I would probably be sitting there going, "OMG, THEY GOT DUST TOO? FRICKIN' STEALIN' *******S!" or something like that.

Is it a Xbox game or something?

It's based on hentai game. The game itself is not sexual (in fact, they aren't even wearing skimpy outfits).

Melty Blood now exists for the PC, PS2 and arcade.

thats stereotyping. but it's true, i mained peach in melee, and now it is ZSS/Samus but still not every gay guy uses peach, we like Marth, Ike, Pit, and Snake aswell. I bet you can guess why.

Hmm... why did I write "most"? I meant to say "many"... as in an inordinate amount of male LGBT Smashers. AFAIK, she's the most mained character of all LGBT Smashers (not necessarily 50%+ but much more than any other character).

And, why, yes, Pit is also popular :D.

i don't get it, you don't have to be gay to main peach, sorry, maybe SOME people actually pick characters because they are fun to play with, and honestly who wouldn't wanna pick someone sexy as peach or ZSS over someone like wario? gimme a break.

Common misread.

"A lot of LGBT Smashers main Peach" =/= "Most Peach mainers are gay"

 

[Bomber7]

Stuff about Olimar not being good..

>>> Yuna you misread my post. I had read some past comments about people coincidentally choosing "low tier" characters, such as Olimar. They sounded like that choosing Olimar was a bad thing. I never said Olimar was bad. I'm quoting myself on this, "I take Olimar as a threat" that is what i said. I did not say the opposite.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

*sigh* I don't even like the topic of debating balance in Brawl as it is now. I've been in the middle of far too many games early in their lifespans, and watched them all evolve constantly. My entire point is that it is way too early to determine how balanced a game truly is this early into it. Sometimes thats possible, like with Accent Core how Eddie is by far the best character, as he will always win a match if he gets the first hit in (He is softbanned in Japan, and America doesn't want to ban him because if you get the first hit in then he's still beatable apparently). But I can guarantee you that we are far from understanding the balance of the game as it is now. This community is naturally slow to evolve, because we thrive from local tournaments rather than online. And coupled with the fad of complaining about the game, our progress is slowing down even further.

I've given up on these "Brawl-bashing" topics, as people pass judgment way too quickly and easily nowadays. I can definitely understand not liking Brawl, as its very different from Melee, and that is totally fine. But trying to make it seem like Brawl is an uncompetitive, unbalanced game so early in its lifespan is something that is completely ridiculous.

 

[ArcPoint]

"This community is naturally slow to evolve, because we thrive from local tournaments rather than online. And coupled with the fad of complaining about the game, our progress is slowing down even further."

QFT. I agree whole heartedly Samurai, great stuff.

 

[Corigames]

I've given up on these "Brawl-bashing" topics, as people pass judgment way too quickly and easily nowadays. I can definitely understand not liking Brawl, as its very different from Melee, and that is totally fine. But trying to make it seem like Brawl is an uncompetitive, unbalanced game so early in its lifespan is something that is completely ridiculous.

Would you not also agree that it is frustrating to see people claim that Melee was all 0-death combos, too fast, Fox only, no fun, only FD, full of bugs and glitches, tourny players are too serious, completely broken in balance, etc., etc.? It's ridiculous, and that is a game that's been out for a while, been heavily tested, and has a lot of data behind it. Yet, in this time that Brawl's been out, people are claiming that there is potential for greatness and, therefore, it's the better game. I can't agree with that. I want someone to prove to me that it's better before I consider saying it myself. I have no evidence for that though, and that's why I argue, heavily, against it.

Yes, people judge quickly. That's our nature. It takes about 5 seconds to figure out if you are going to not like someone or not when you meet them, why would it not take 5 months to do so for a game?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Would you not also agree that it is frustrating to see people claim that Melee was all 0-death combos, too fast, Fox only, no fun, only FD, full of bugs and glitches, tourny players are too serious, completely broken in balance, etc., etc.? It's ridiculous, and that is a game that's been out for a while, been heavily tested, and has a lot of data behind it. Yet, in this time that Brawl's been out, people are claiming that there is potential for greatness and, therefore, it's the better game. I can't agree with that. I want someone to prove to me that it's better before I consider saying it myself. I have no evidence for that though, and that's why I argue, heavily, against it.

Yes, people judge quickly. That's our nature. It takes about 5 seconds to figure out if you are going to not like someone or not when you meet them, why would it not take 5 months to do so for a game?

While I am not defending balance in melee or Brawl, Samurai Panda seems to have extensive knowledge of the game as well as other communities to support the "Brawl will evolve" opinion.

Personally, I think that the skill range is greater in Brawl almost entirely because the cast is larger, but at the same time the primary problems Brawl is facing have to do with a lack of knowledge concerning how to play against all the different styles of characters. For example, Olimar - I have nothing beyond "mysteriously get him off the cliff while all his attacks outrange yours, THEN gimp his recovery." R.O.B. - Be aggressive and stay in the air? Snake - How long are his hit-boxes and when will I learn to avoid them?

Brawl will evolve as long as people have yet to learn how to properly approach matchups. That is why Brawl is still evolving, and is hard to judge at this stage.

 

[Corigames]

I meant it is human nature to pass judgment on people very early in as little as 5 seconds.