Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[The Halloween Captain]

I meant it is human nature to pass judgment on people very early in as little as 5 seconds.

Sorry, I'll edit that out. The way it sounded was a little off. However, I stand by the rest - Brawl isn't fully evolved because there are too many matchups in which one guy says "What the **** do I do against ______ (place character name here)."

 

[Silent Wolf]

Low tier characters played by skilled Melee smashers had the ability to employ mindgames which is a huge part of (Melee) smash that goes hand in hand with outthinking your opponent. Thats why Ka Master can beat Silent Wolf as Luigi and why Neo as Roy could beat Ken. Also, Ken taught Neo early on so that kinda throws off the skew here.

Mindgames in Brawl are a joke (OMG should I float towards him and attack or not) So the current low tier mains don't have means to make their opponent second guess an approach or w/e. Its already been said that high and god tier chars can severely limit what the middle and low tiers have as viable options.

Luigi is nowhere near low tier, the tier list is way off, people need to stop using it.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

But you played with Ka-Master and ppa0

It's like, not fair

 

[IrArby]

My bad SW I'm not at all putting you down so don't take it personally or anything. Luigi is by no means a bad character and has a pretty good matchup against Fox but this is all to my point, as well as most people's points that Melee is pretty well balanced and every character is tournament viable to some degree. Thats my real point here.

Brawl Fox would probably own Brawl Luigi and Fox isn't even that high on the tier list. (Honestly, I don't know for sure since I'm not keeping up with Fox/Luigi's matchups.)

The Melee tier list is off because all the Characters have great potential depending who's playing them. Universal ATs, Mechanics that allow for mindgames, combos, the ability to not have to Wall/Ceiling KO everyone in order to take a stock lol, etc let dedicated smashers play anyone competitively.
The predictive Brawl tier lists is all off since its hard to decide which characters get owned in what order. jk but sorta.

Lastly, no one has given me any mindgames for Brawl which is supposedly "focused" on them. I asked this earlier either in this thread or the Brawl will have Backwards Progression thread. Can someone at least try to give me a legitimate example. I see no great potential for Mindgames in Brawl.

 

[Revolutionary1804]

to the above poster, tripping while unrealiable in itself is a mindgame. you can also dashdance in this game as well. the fact that in this game you can auto grab the ledge also helps for mindgames because it is easier to play off the edge. i main C.Falcon which everyone says has fallen down greatly, i agree with this statement but he is defenetly not lower then yoshi, ganondorf, or a bowser. well even with him there is a way to falcon kick and automatically fall and grab the ledge which is a sick technique to use when someone is chasing you.
just naming a few "mindgame" techniques.

 

[IrArby]

To the above/below poster: Tripping is only a mindgame if you can control when and where you trip. So, its not a mindgame. Autosweetspotting the edge removes a huge aspect from the Smash series (Edgeguarding). Before its induction many of the most crucial and game deciding mindgames were played on the edge or near it. Now, ledgemindgames are hardly very useful. The FalconKick insta-edgegrab tech you mentioned is part of that same Autosweetspotting thing and as I said, overall, it removes depth and mindgames from the game itself. Lastly, the distance of dashdancing is now so small that its really not going to fool anyone and is really pretty useless as a approach.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

There's always Zelda's fireballs - an attack that hits pretty much anywhere and makes R.O.B. campers look like fun.

More seriously though, If you chase a character off a cliff, the battle becomes insane; it is very risky for both players, but if they both want the gimp kill bad enough, there will be interesting ledge battles.

If one of them doesn't trust his/her air ability, then the battle is more likely to be land-based though, which is the opposite of melee in which only one person had to want to take the battle off the cliff.

P.S. - build a custom stage that is a tower. I built mine with two large up-down platforms in the middle one on top of the other, and a wall on each side, with a 3-block hole in the middle of each wall. This set up will allow you to chase opponents off cliffs and gimp their recoveries with minimal risk when done right, as you could always aim for the lower hole in the wall. I did this on the largest stage size, as that was the only thing which would accomidate this stage's minimum height. More of a fun thing to do though than a solution for tournament matches.

 

[Yuna]

to the above poster, tripping while unrealiable in itself is a mindgame. you can also dashdance in this game as well. the fact that in this game you can auto grab the ledge also helps for mindgames because it is easier to play off the edge. i main C.Falcon which everyone says has fallen down greatly, i agree with this statement but he is defenetly not lower then yoshi, ganondorf, or a bowser. well even with him there is a way to falcon kick and automatically fall and grab the ledge which is a sick technique to use when someone is chasing you.
just naming a few "mindgame" techniques.

It's not really a good mindgame to random run and grab the ledge as Captain Falcon.

 

[Revolutionary1804]

off topic but did u watch the euro cup yuna since ur from sweden?

 

[RDK]

*sigh* I don't even like the topic of debating balance in Brawl as it is now. I've been in the middle of far too many games early in their lifespans, and watched them all evolve constantly.

Assuming that Brawl is like every other fighting game is a logical fallacy in itself. By it's very definition Brawl (as well as, for the record, Melee and SSB64) is not a fighting game. It's the community that MAKES it what it is.

Point being, Brawl's development period isn't going to be the same as other fighting games. Comparing Brawl's evoltion to Street Fighter's evolution is lunacy, and it's ridiculous to expect the same amount of metagame development out of Brawl that you get from Street Fighter or Guilty Gear.

My entire point is that it is way too early to determine how balanced a game truly is this early into it.

In my opinion (and I know I'm not alone here), this is entirely backwards, but I won't go into it.

Sometimes thats possible, like with Accent Core how Eddie is by far the best character, as he will always win a match if he gets the first hit in (He is softbanned in Japan, and America doesn't want to ban him because if you get the first hit in then he's still beatable apparently).

I submit to you that Brawl is not Accent Core. Brawl couldn't possibly hope to attain the level of competitive technicality that any Guilty Gear has achieved.

But I can guarantee you that we are far from understanding the balance of the game as it is now. This community is naturally slow to evolve, because we thrive from local tournaments rather than online. And coupled with the fad of complaining about the game, our progress is slowing down even further.

For someone who supposedly knows the ropes when it comes to other competitive gaming scenes, you should know that compared to most other fighter communities, Smash is among (if not the) biggest--especially right now. What pro-Brawl people tend to forget is that we have TWICE the amount of people working on Brawl that we had in Melee's developmental period. There's simply no excuse for the shortcoming's in Brawl's evolution. There's literally nothing to find.

And ISJR'ing is a sad excuse for wavedashing, l-cancelling, etc.

I've given up on these "Brawl-bashing" topics, as people pass judgment way too quickly and easily nowadays. I can definitely understand not liking Brawl, as its very different from Melee, and that is totally fine. But trying to make it seem like Brawl is an uncompetitive, unbalanced game so early in its lifespan is something that is completely ridiculous.

I tend to disagree. Wholeheartedly.

 

[AlexX]

I submit to you that Brawl is not Accent Core. Brawl couldn't possibly hope to attain the level of competitive technicality that any Guilty Gear has achieved.

To be fair, I doubt Melee will, either.

For someone who supposedly knows the ropes when it comes to other competitive gaming scenes, you should know that compared to most other fighter communities, Smash is among (if not the) biggest--especially right now. What pro-Brawl people tend to forget is that we have TWICE the amount of people working on Brawl that we had in Melee's developmental period. There's simply no excuse for the shortcoming's in Brawl's evolution. There's literally nothing to find.

If that's the case, why are we still finding things in Brawl? More people generally means we find stuff quicker, but don't forget we don't all look for different things at once since there's no hivemind for us to share stuff has been tried that hasn't caused any kind of result. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while numbers help, we're not going to discover everything Brawl has to offer in a week. In fact, I believe most of the stuff we've found so far was by accident.

Granted, I'm not saying we'll find another wavedash, but little things still add up.

 

[Corigames]

Then what was the last big discovery in Brawl... or even anything.

 

[AlexX]

Then what was the last big discovery in Brawl... or even anything.

Granted, I'm not saying we'll find another wavedash, but little things still add up.

I'm not saying Brawl will ever be as technical as Melee, but that doesn't mean it can't still have its own competative following. I mean, it's not like we can only support one of them in the competative world.

 

[Corigames]

Well, you said, "why are we still finding things in Brawl?" I asked what? There hasn't been anything found that has fundamentally changed anything aside from snakes dash attack cancel thing. What else has there been aside from noting what the game engine does?

 

[BlackWhiteOrange]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDK
I submit to you that Brawl is not Accent Core. Brawl couldn't possibly hope to attain the level of competitive technicality that any Guilty Gear has achieved.

To be fair, I doubt Melee will, either.

Melee in all likelihood far surpassed the level of technicality and competitiveness of any Guilty Gear, as it was far more played, the second-most popular tournament video game of all time, and new techniques continued to be discovered for years after the game's release. Taking into consideration the fact that Melee was an incredibly technical, fast-paced and strategic game, Guilty Gear with its (much) smaller fanbase, couldn't possibly hope to attain the level of competitive technicality that any SSBM has achieved.

 

[RDK]

To be fair, I doubt Melee will, either.

Melee is a hell of a lot closer to being GG than Brawl is.

Also, something tells me you have no Melee experience whatsoever. It's an incredibly technical game.

If that's the case, why are we still finding things in Brawl? More people generally means we find stuff quicker, but don't forget we don't all look for different things at once since there's no hivemind for us to share stuff has been tried that hasn't caused any kind of result.

SWF is our "hivemind".

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while numbers help, we're not going to discover everything Brawl has to offer in a week. In fact, I believe most of the stuff we've found so far was by accident.

But it hasn't been a week! That argument may have been valid when Brawl was first released, but now it's a ridiculous throwback. To continue to use the appeal to time argument is idiotic, but for some reason people still do.

Granted, I'm not saying we'll find another wavedash, but little things still add up.

Name 5 practical advanced techs that have been discovered since Brawl's release.

Also, it doesn't matter if we find 10 or 100 AT's in Brawl. What does matter is how useful they are. ISJR'ing isn't a replacement for l-cancelling or wavedashing. Most of the "Brawl techs" that people tote around aren't pragmatic in the least. People just tend to make a big deal out of them because they're something.

 

[Corigames]

People just tend to make a big deal out of them because they're something.

And don't you find that ironic? The same people argue that Melee was unbalanced, full of glitches, and too fast. Then, they go into Brawl which is also unbalanced, try to find all the exploits and glitches, and try to make the game less campy and increase the speed.

Hypocrite, eh? I know.

 

[IrArby]

Then what was the last big discovery in Brawl... or even anything.

What he said^^^
Seriously, Theres only 9 buttons on the GC controller and less than that if you consider some buttons have the same function in many or all situations. Most ATs, not just in Melee or Brawl but in other games that are actually fighters, usually involve canceling something into to something else. This includes attacks, shields, dodges, jumps, and dashes. The only other things you can factor in is the ground/platforms and the edge/ledge which can also be used to cancel or alter those 5 things. Its not the long and fruitful process that many are making it out to be, and its not overly difficult to explore the less apparent mechanics of the game if you have an idea of what your looking for.

In other news RDK bucks, and the fact remains that no one has come up with any legitimate
Brawl mindgames.

 

[Yuna]

Melee in all likelihood far surpassed the level of technicality and competitiveness of any Guilty Gear, as it was far more played, the second-most popular tournament video game of all time, and new techniques continued to be discovered for years after the game's release. Taking into consideration the fact that Melee was an incredibly technical, fast-paced and strategic game, Guilty Gear with its (much) smaller fanbase, couldn't possibly hope to attain the level of competitive technicality that any SSBM has achieved.

Competitive viability is not determined by number of participants/amount of widespread play.

Rock/paper/scissors is one of the most played games in the world. Most Competitive game in the world? Hardly.

 

[AlexX]

Well, you said, "why are we still finding things in Brawl?" I asked what? There hasn't been anything found that has fundamentally changed anything aside from snakes dash attack cancel thing. What else has there been aside from noting what the game engine does?

I think I'm lost on what you mean... I said although we're only discovering minor things, they still add up, and you're asking what minor things have been discovered? If that's the case, I'm talking about stuff like the often-quoted ISJ. It's not game-breaking stuff like L-cancelling or wavedashing, but if we can find some more it could still add up.

Seriously, Theres only 9 buttons on the GC controller and less than that if you consider some buttons have the same function in many or all situations. Most ATs, not just in Melee or Brawl but in other games that are actually fighters, usually involve canceling something into to something else. This includes attacks, shields, dodges, jumps, and dashes. The only other things you can factor in is the ground/platforms and the edge/ledge which can also be used to cancel or alter those 5 things. Its not the long and fruitful process that many are making it out to be, and its not overly difficult to explore the less apparent mechanics of the game if you have an idea of what your looking for.

But if it's as easy as you say, why didn't we discover ISJ within the first week of Brawl's release? It's not much, I'll admit, but it's better than nothing.

Also, people can only know to look for what they know exists. Because Brawl uses different mechanics than Melee, any knowledge of how to look for stuff in Melee doesn't carry over. As people have said before, Brawl is a fresh start.

EDIT: Yowza! I missed a lot.

Also, something tells me you have no Melee experience whatsoever. It's an incredibly technical game.

And you'd be wrong. I mained Link and while I didn't win any major tournaments, I could still beat scrub players with ease.

SWF is our "hivemind".

I only see stuff posted here that's an actual finding, stuff that was tried and failed doesn't seem to be documented (or at least not nearly as well-documented).

But it hasn't been a week! That argument may have been valid when Brawl was first released, but now it's a ridiculous throwback. To continue to use the appeal to time argument is idiotic, but for some reason people still do.

Then why isn't there a set tierlist? Why isn't there an official list of Brawl's rules and stage legality? Maybe it's just late and I'm really tired, but if time isn't a factor anymore there shouldn't be any problem with releasing them as they are now, right?

Name 5 practical advanced techs that have been discovered since Brawl's release.

Also, it doesn't matter if we find 10 or 100 AT's in Brawl. What does matter is how useful they are. ISJR'ing isn't a replacement for l-cancelling or wavedashing. Most of the "Brawl techs" that people tote around aren't pragmatic in the least. People just tend to make a big deal out of them because they're something.

Okay, I'll put my hands up and say you've got me there. As I said before, Brawl isn't a very technical game, but my point was that something > nothing.

 

[IrArby]

But if it's as easy as you say, why didn't we discover ISJ within the first week of Brawl's release? It's not much, I'll admit, but it's better than nothing.

Also, people can only know to look for what they know exists. Because Brawl uses different mechanics than Melee, any knowledge of how to look for stuff in Melee doesn't carry over. As people have said before, Brawl is a fresh start.

You still have the same things to interact with. Yes, setting your Cstick to different things has opened up options but they've been pretty well tested and nothing serious has been found. ISJing is a very precise timing, or so I understand so its less obvious and regardless, it still falls under my criteria of one of those 5 things canceling into another of the 5 using one of the other 2 optional variables (ground/platforms & ledges/edges). Its more difficult than what this explanation makes it out to be, but essentially thats where most ATs are derived. I can't think of a single Melee AT that doesn't fit these criteria. Though its late and I'm not trying terrible hard.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Shut-up. You haven't explored the whole world or gone to space, you can't claim that the world isn't flat. All you know is what you've been told and nothing more. I'm sure we can assume the same is for Brawl. I explored Melee for nearly 2 years now and I'm still making discoveries in it every time I play. Yet, in the life of Brawl, what has changed fundamentally? Nothing.

When you explored the world, you can dispute its flatness. When you explored Brawl, you can dispute its flatness, and, at this point, no one should be doing that. At the same time though, everyone can, because there is very little to explore.

Considering we can give live feedback from space, explorers have documented travels and have shared the experiences with others we can safely state the world is round.

I may not have explored the world on my own outside of road trips or vacations, but I can safely assume the world is round.

 

[EvolveOrDie]

Okay I might make another post in this thread with more substance at another time. I did not manage to drum up enough willpower to read all 157 odd pages but I have read the first few pages and the last few, so sacrifice me to your dark gods and walls of flaming posts if this has already been covered.

I stand on the side of not judging this game after some good long thought; because while I may have my own feeling about whether or not it's balanced or comparing it to melee (which you shouldn't really do especially if your not good at making object analysis based on unmitigated fact), I can say that talking about this games limits just builds a glass ceiling. You can see the light on the other side but you can't get there. For some reason some of you feel overjoyed to place limits in your mind and the game on what it can be. In my eyes several of you have already failed the game because if what I read earlier was true in any respect and the community makes the game, maybe you don't deserve to be the community. Largely the criticisms aren't helpful and tend to be a back in forth of I'll show you my facts when you show me yours. It all seems so childish and it feels like I've read it all before in the melee section.

Let's step back from one rant and flow into another.

Question? Do you realize what "mindgames" are?
Now I will answer with an opinion of my own devising taking from long thought and often the insights and knowledge of people I consider reliable information sources and largely logical here on SWF. For me mindgames are not real, there an illusion of sorts. A rumor that became a myth was turned into a legend and then pulled from a stone to blind people with the light of it's non-existence. For me the mindgame is surely a lie for I don't engage in a match with one of my friends who I can almost always read like a book and try to discover what new strategy he will employ. I take stock of the situation and play at my standard level to once again build a picture in my mind of his state of being. I create a mental copy of the person he is so I will know when he strikes and when he retreats. I use his strength and confidence against him and he sees the pattern. He uses his knowledge of my predictions to lay a trap and I take the bait to fool him into thinking me the rat after cheese when I'm really the cat with claws. Now all my matches don't always go in my favor but undeniably I have a knack for reading that friend, I just usually fail to capitalize on it but that's there and not here. I also have another friend that I can't ever seem to read and I feel like he's playing me like a fiddle. I'm the one trying to lay weak traps only to find them backfire on me. Now the funny thing is that my first friend is about even with me when it comes to skill in the game but my second friend is not, yet he gives me the harder time, why? Those are my "mindgames", I don't call them such because what I know to be mindgames and what you call mindgames are two different things. On the off chance that those are also your mindgames then please before you ask whether a game has them ask yourself whether you think when you play the game.

 

[Corigames]

1st paragraph:
I would actually look down on you if you read all 157 of this thread. I can't see any reason why someone would do tat to themselves.

2nd paragraph:
You basically said, "Stop bashing Brawl or go away. You being a jerk towards it doesn't help anyone."

3rd paragraph:
Mindgames do exist. When you say, "He uses his knowledge of my predictions to lay a trap and I take the bait to fool him into thinking me the rat after cheese when I'm really the cat with claws," I think you have reached the pure definition of what a mindgame is.

And please, what did most of this have to do with the discussion? The first part seemed at least relevant, but the rest of it was just a complaint about how to define mindgames. It's like you started heading somewhere, then started again, but the two roads never met. Are you going to continue on to say mindgames don't exist to the point that we shouldn't use their application to compare the two games or what?

In the end, seeing a wide vocabulary is refreshing. At least it isn't like half the rubbish that shows up on the boards where someone types something for three seconds and I half to spend the next half our decrypting their 1337/IM/Short-hand/ebonics/4chan/lolcat speech. It's so frustrating.

 

[RDK]

If you personally believe you have no use for your mindgames because you can read your friends like a book, then your friends more than likely blow.

Going to tournaments solves everything. You learn that you're not the bad@ss at the game that you thought you were. There are people better than you.

 

[Zankoku]

Unless you're like Ken and don't go to tournaments until you're actually really **** good and don't lose any tournaments at all for like two years.

 

[Corigames]

I may not have explored the world on my own outside of road trips or vacations, but I can safely assume the world is round.

assume
assume
ASSUME!!!

You don't KNOW because you didn't experience it first hand.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Lastly, no one has given me any mindgames for Brawl which is supposedly "focused" on them. I asked this earlier either in this thread or the Brawl will have Backwards Progression thread. Can someone at least try to give me a legitimate example. I see no great potential for Mindgames in Brawl.

Mmk I'll try myt best then mainly since I main sonic so he has a good number of moves that can cancel.

Dash~sideB Shield cancel (stop his dash movement and stops sliding)

Aerial spincharge~ shield cancel

Regular dash shield grab.

Spinshot (sends Sonic in a small arc somewhat faster than Wario/YoshiJigglypuff's movement getting Sonic around from behind)

Spincharge~homing attack
Spincharge~JC~spindash~

Dash~spindash (charge it for a moment for baiting and punishing)

Dashdancing (via pivot dashing. Kinda hard to perform consistently but useful)

Dash~sideB ~shield~ empty SH ~ empty SH~ dash sideB cancel~ SH Nair

Most of Sonic's canceling is meant to bait or to force the opponent to take an inappropriate action.

It is also used for approaching.
A DAC Usmash from Sonic travels very far and if the opponent goes for a grab they'll whiff it and get hit .
I also tend to use it for hopping over mines (its quite funny actually).

Sonic can also do pivot grabbing due to his insane dash speed so forcing an opponent to dodge he can turn around and grab them and punish.


For Link: Got me beat there. There isn't much else he can do other than 180 arrow cancel/ Zair~DAC/ hooking shotting the ledge when begin edge guarded to force out a smash/grab/attac etc etc.
Draw a bomb (Dodge ~Fsmash)
Draw a bomb toss it then Dair catching the bomb in the process (in case opponent attacks the bomb explodes and knocks you away from the opponent and prevents being comboed. KAMIKAZE FUN!)
Toss 2 bomb up. Prevents grabbing and makes an opponent less willing to approach while one fires boomerang and arrows.

Zair~bomb~Zair~DAC.


Meh my Link sucks anyway...

 

[RDK]

You don't KNOW because you didn't experience it first hand.

Assuming makes an *** of U and ME. :D

Unless you're like Ken and don't go to tournaments until you're actually really **** good and don't lose any tournaments at all for like two years.

I highly doubt this guy is like Ken.

Also, WTF ever happened to him anyway? The last I saw him was when he went Luigi and lost at FC or something. Does he not play Brawl?

 

[Zankoku]

He went Luigi and placed 4th at 0C3, I think. According to Marth boards, he plans to make his big Brawl debut in EVO2K8, which I found kinda humorous.

 

[clowsui]

assume
assume
ASSUME!!!

You don't KNOW because you didn't experience it first hand.

You don't KNOW that jumping off a bridge is bad for you because you didn't experience it first hand. Does this mean that your assumption that it's bad is incorrect? Provided that you present logical, accurate evidence there is nothing wrong with assuming things.

 

[RDK]

He went Luigi and placed 4th at 0C3, I think. According to Marth boards, he plans to make his big Brawl debut in EVO2K8, which I found kinda humorous.

Yikes. Looks like he didn't get the memo on the beta ruleset.

 

[Corigames]

You don't KNOW that jumping off a bridge is bad for you because you didn't experience it first hand. Does this mean that your assumption that it's bad is incorrect? Provided that you present logical, accurate evidence there is nothing wrong with assuming things.

If I know it hurts to jump from 10 ft and it hurts more to jump from 15ft, I know it is going to be a ***** to jump off a bridge onto hard ground or a very far distance into water. That is just science that has been tested and proven by first hand experience.

It is, however, not my first hand experience to have gone around the world or to space. The farthest east I've gone is Manhatten, the farthest south is the Bahamas, the farthest west was San Fran, and the farthest North was Lake Superior I think. And after all that, I can't be completely convinced that the Earth is round. That's like knowing your eye color without a mirror. The only way to know is what someone tells you.

I'm not saying the Earth isn't round, but we can't be 100% sure of things we don't know for ourselves.

 

[ShadowLink84]

TO translate what corey said for those who are still unclear

The world is round: however you know this only because other people have told you, have shown you what the Earth looks like from space, have proven it, it isn't something similar to to falling from 10 feet and saying, **** if I feel from a bridge it would hurt even more.


Though corey just to toss a wrench.
Would it not be insinuated that the Earth is round simply because of the horizon itself?
As well as the fact that if we know the Earth is so very large that it is forced to be in the shape of a sphere (due to gravity).


Now if someone was to say I know the Earth has a bulge without someone telling them or showing them, then I'd want to be skeptical.



I say we use the bulge example.
And you give me your cookies.

 

[RDK]

TO translate what corey said for those who are still unclear

The world is round: however you know this only because other people have told you, have shown you what the Earth looks like from space, have proven it, it isn't something similar to to falling from 10 feet and saying, **** if I feel from a bridge it would hurt even more.


Though corey just to toss a wrench.
Would it not be insinuated that the Earth is round simply because of the horizon itself?
As well as the fact that if we know the Earth is so very large that it is forced to be in the shape of a sphere (due to gravity).


Now if someone was to say I know the Earth has a bulge without someone telling them or showing them, then I'd want to be skeptical.



I say we use the bulge example.
And you give me your cookies.

How is this even an argument? Look at NASA photos of the Earth. Of course it's round.

 

[Corigames]

Those could be photshooped. You didn't take the pictures yourself.

 

[RDK]

Well I guess you don't exist either. We could all be constructs in some massive alien video game.

 

[Corigames]

Do you have evidence refuting that? Hmm?

Are the pyramids in Egypt real? I don't know. I know that we were taught about them in school, there are news articles, history pages, and explorations of them, and that they show up in movies, TV shows, and even songs. However, I've never been to Egypt, so I can't know for sure. I trust and respect the scientists who study those things, so I believe them and I just assume that they do exist. But do I know, 100%, that they are? No. That's what I'm saying.

To bring this topic back to its origin... People who have played Brawl competitively and not Melee shouldn't talk about both like they know it. If you never played Melee competitively, you shouldn't comment on it. You can look at videos, read tournament results, and talk to pros, but you won't grasp exactly what it's all about until you do it for yourself! You must do it to know it, otherwise you are just regurgitating what people have told you.

 

[RDK]

Do you have evidence refuting that? Hmm?

Are the pyramids in Egypt real? I don't know. I know that we were taught about them in school, there are news articles, history pages, and explorations of them, and that they show up in movies, TV shows, and even songs. However, I've never been to Egypt, so I can't know for sure. I trust and respect the scientists who study those things, so I believe them and I just assume that they do exist. But do I know, 100%, that they are? No. That's what I'm saying.

To bring this topic back to its origin... People who have played Brawl competitively and not Melee shouldn't talk about both like they know it. If you never played Melee competitively, you shouldn't comment on it. You can look at videos, read tournament results, and talk to pros, but you won't grasp exactly what it's all about until you do it for yourself! You must do it to know it, otherwise you are just regurgitating what people have told you.

I was never disagreeing with you in this regard. It's true that people with no knowledge of previous Smash games should not make assumptions based on personal experiences, etc. But just for the sake of argument, with things like proving whether or not the Earth is round, you have to accept some sort of casuality, or you end up being critical of EVERYTHING.

Sometimes you have to find a happy medium. Don't automatically take everything on faith, but keep a healthy criticism of things.

The problem is that nobody on the Brawl side has this balance.

 

[ShadowLink84]

How is this even an argument? Look at NASA photos of the Earth. Of course it's round.

Eh oh im not arguing the whole thing I am just providing what I think coreygames was trying to get across.

And the earth is not perfectly spherical, it has a small bulge.

Those could be photshooped. You didn't take the pictures yourself.

Fine, we'll say it was photoshopped but...

*chucks the law of gravity at you*

Wait my mistake wrong one.
*chucks theory of gravity at you*



Anyways back to the topic at hand.

Brawl isn't a balanced game by any means but I think it could be competitive.
Whileit may not be as deep as Melee I don't think its hopeless by anymeans.


But yeah -_-;