Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[KoozyK]

sooo is there anyway to platform cancel using b-stick mod

 

[Pogoshark]

When I airdodge right before i hit the ground i seem to be able to go into a dash attack or DACUS.

Is this because it cancels the lag or it delays me physically so I use the dash later?

 

[teluoborg]

sooo is there anyway to platform cancel using b-stick mod

Yes. Filck down while going through the platform, or hold down and press shield, or hold down and release it.

 

[SN Viper]

What is an IASA frame?

what does it mean and what are the properties of it. also what is an example

 

[da K.I.D.]

When I airdodge right before i hit the ground i seem to be able to go into a dash attack or DACUS.

Is this because it cancels the lag or it delays me physically so I use the dash later?

its the latter, probably the visual and physical cues of you ADing into the ground let you do moves right after because you can see when you are free to do ground moves. but the action itself doesnt cancel any lag.

What is an IASA frame?

what does it mean and what are the properties of it. also what is an example

Interuptable As Soon As.

Some moves have certain amounts of lag frames that you can cancel with any other move.

A good example is if youve ever fought an ike, and tried to punish his fair only to get punched in the face. the fair itself is fairly laggy if you land with it. it has (these arent exact numbers and are just being used for the sake of the example) like 25 frames of lag, but from like frame 14 on, its all IASA frames, which means that even tho the move has 25 frames of lag, you can jab on frame 15 because the lag for that move is ''Interruptable As Soon As' that frame comes.

 

[B.A.M.]

so does anyone know how to instant wall jump while on the ledge? it is possible I have done it, however im trying to figure out how to get it down consistently

EDIT: NVM found out how. For any character with only 2 jumps and a wall jump you can instant wall jump by pressing back + jump at the EXACT same time lol.

 

[Flayl]

So is buffering impossible in htistun or does that only apply to strong knockbacks?

 

[Yikarur]

You can buffer at the end of hitstun but you can't buffer moves that cancel hitstun (airdodge and aerials)

 

[Flayl]

But is that the same for hitstun that doesn't make the character tumble?

 

[-Googs]

How many frames does it take to turn around, as in face the other direction?

 

[Yikarur]

How many frames does it take to turn around, as in face the other direction?

technically 1. you can cancel the turnarround animation with everything and face the new direction instantly.

 

[-Googs]

so then what would be the best way to calculate the frame advantage on sheilding a move, then turning around?

 

[Deathfox30]

Is it common knowledge that you can't immediately regrab the ledge with a quarter circle motion after you get up or get up attack? I see a lot of players miss edgehogs because of this and put themselves in a terrible position.

Also, is there a reason for it? Does the game think you're still on the ledge or something?

 

[-Googs]

techincally you haven't left the ground...so...probably

 

[san.]

Kind of a weird question:

Do all characters have the same dash duration?

In other words, when different characters initiate a dash, do their shields come up at the same time? Also, do we know how many frames each character's dash is before the character can interrupt with a shield?

 

[C.J.]

Not every character's initial dash is the same, no.
I know Marth's dash->shield is 17 frames. The longest (?) in the game.

 

[teluoborg]

@san : from the MM ep 4 :

Dash Animation Duration in Frames(Thanks to rPSI for the data):

CF - 15
DDD - 10
Diddy - 10
DK - 15
Falco - 11
Fox - 10
GW - 8
Ganon - 15
Icies -13
Ike - 10
Kirby - 12
Bowser - 13
Link - 12
Lucario - 10
Lucas - 10
Luigi - 10
Mario - 10
Marth - 16
Meta Knight - 12
Ness - 13
Peach - 15
Pika - 13
Olimar - 10
Pit - 12
Squirtle - 10
Ivysaur - 10
Charziard - 10
Popo - 13
Jiggly - 13
ROB - 10
Samus - 8
Sheik - 7
Snake - 12
Sonic - 10
ZSS - 12
Toon Link - 12
Wario - 12
Wolf - 10
Yoshi - 14
Zelda - 15

@Deathfox : you can regrab the ledge, you just have to be super fast.

 

[aatami]

Could someone provide me a chart of using the C-stick versus using A+direction, that compares their differences from a metagame perspective? Or are there no differences other than ones that are purely a matter of personal preference, and have no impact on the meta?

 

[Pikabunz]

Is it common knowledge that you can't immediately regrab the ledge with a quarter circle motion after you get up or get up attack? I see a lot of players miss edgehogs because of this and put themselves in a terrible position.

Also, is there a reason for it? Does the game think you're still on the ledge or something?

The same reason you can't UpB to the ledge immediately after a ledge drop. The game is just programmed so that you can't regrab the ledge until 30 frames after you leave it.

 

[Yikarur]

and the 30 frames count from the first actionable frame after a ledge move (if you're get-up attack lasts 59 frames, you can't regrab the ledge until frame 90)

 

[infiniteV115]

Could someone provide me a chart of using the C-stick versus using A+direction, that compares their differences from a metagame perspective? Or are there no differences other than ones that are purely a matter of personal preference, and have no impact on the meta?

I can't provide a chart, but I'll give you all the scenarios in which c-stick is a better option than A+direction.


Glide Toss - The act of interrupting a roll with an item toss. The input for this is

1: Shield
2: Roll (press left/right while shielding)
3: Immediately after rolling (I believe you must still be holding shield), press A/C-stick to cancel the roll and throw the held item instead. You will no longer be invincible, but you will use the momentum from the roll to slide across the stage while throwing the item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDtdmdkzaro
Notice how Diddy slides across the ground while throwing an item. If you want a pro Diddy/Peach/Rob/ZSS, you will see them glide toss often.

Diddy's glide toss is actually quite small. Characters such as MK, Falco, G&W and ZSS have glide tosses that are significantly larger. Others as well. I don't believe everyone can glide toss, but most characters can.

Why you would use C-Stick over A+direction
There are 8 different glide tosses. 2 directions in which to roll (left/right), 4 directions in which to throw the item (up, down, left, right). 2x4=8. Glide tossing with the C-stick allows you to roll left/right on the joystick while throwing the item in a different direction. Using A, a glide toss where the toss and the roll are NOT in the same direction is rather difficult. It IS POSSIBLE, but VERY difficult. Thus, with A, 2 glide tosses are made easy. With C-stick, all 8 are easy.
*Note: ZSS can't glide toss with her back roll, only with her forward, so she only has 4 glide tosses. There may be some other characters with this disadvantage as well.

Air Dodge Cancelling Item Toss(ADCIT) - Cancelling an airdodge with an item toss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8
This video contains all the information you need on ADCITs. Same basic idea as glide tossing, c-stick makes life easier. Move in one direction while ADCIT in another.

Directional Influence (DI) - Changing the trajectory of your character when sent flying by an attack, which helps you to live to higher percents.Also helps you escape from multi-hit moves like Pikachu's down smash or Snake's neutral aerial, which helps you refrain from building up unnecessary damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhy29SGkDU

For moves that send you flying, you aim for the corner, as the death zone at the corner is further away from anywhere else. Think about it like a right-angle triangle; the hypotenuse is always the longest side!

Momentum Cancelling - Preventing yourself from dieing at higher percents by regaining control of your character ASAP after having been sent flying. Done by doing your fastest aerial (to regain control), then using your best option to get back to the stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njcYW0rFmUg

DI and Momentum Cancelling are very important at higher level play, as doing both optimally helps you live to MUCH higher percents.

Since they're so important, it is best to DI (from an attack that will send you flying) with the control stick, and momentum cancel with the C-stick. For example, Diddy Kong's back aerial is his fastest aerial. However, if he gets hit by a move that sends him sideways, and he is using back+A to momentum cancel, he will DI completely sideways (not toward the corner) which is horrible. Using C-stick, however, he can easily DI to the corner by holding up/diagonally up and to the side on the joystick, and use his back aerial with the c-stick.

DACUS - Dash Attack Cancel Up-Smash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlGIl27bJQM Everything you need to know about DACUSing is here.
I'm not sure if it's possible with A, but I believe it isn't. There is also something called a BDACUS, which is just a buffered DACUS. If you don't know what buffering is, ask me.

There's some controversy over the name of this, apparently, so I'll just show you the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtxbcqWUQpE
ONLY FOR FALCO

How-to
1: Run
2: Dash attack while running
3: Let GO of your running direction
4: Up-smash immediately

Yes, it's possible with A. But c-stick makes it easier because you just have to flick it down, let go of the joystick, then flick the c-stick up. With A you have to let go of the running direction and press up on the joystick. Not a big difference, but meh.

DAL - Dash Attack Lock
ONLY FOR ZSS (Zero Suit Samus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItF4Sa5NHY
If you try to do it with A, you'll do a side-smash.

Pivot Rolling - Turning around and doing a forward roll instead of doing a back roll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmC8qOwtf8c
Honestly, I don't know if this is useful for anyone other than ZSS. I actually found this in a ZSS guide on these boards.
Basically, ZSS has a good forward roll and a horribly slow back roll, so instead of rolling backward, you PIVOT ROLL! :D
If another other character has a forward roll that is significantly better than their back roll, this could be useful.
Input
1: Back (to turn around)
2: Shield (to prepare for roll)
3: Forward (while holding shield, to initiate the roll)

So if I were facing the left, this would be right, shield, shield+right.
I would have to tap right twice quickly in order to do this quickly.
However, if you're shielding and you press left/right on the c-stick, you roll. Thus, I can do the first right with my joystick, and the second with my c-stick. Definitely easier.

And finally, using c-stick for aerial attacks allows you to use them more flexibly. Following the same logic as glide tossing, you can move in one direction and do an aerial in another. eg Move backward and use your forward aerial, fastfall and do an up aerial at the same time, fastfall and back aerial, etc.

If you're not using your aerial in a different direction than the one in which you're moving, then A is fine. If you're glide tossing in the same direction as you're rolling, then A is fine. If you want to use your neutral aerial (A without direction), you NEED A. People who play Mr. Game&Watch momentum cancel with A because his neutral aerial is his fastest. Smashing is fine with either c-stick or A+direction.

Conclusion
C-stick is better/mandatory for doing one thing in one direction and another thing in another direction. This includes glide tossing, ADCIT, DI+Momentum Cancelling, (B)DACUSing, that Falco thing, DAL, Pivot Rolling and aerials in a different direction than your movement.

A is mandatory for neutral air.

Usually, C-stick is the way to go.

Hope this helped! If you have any questions, just ask.

 

[aatami]

Hope this helped! If you have any questions, just ask.

Thank you so much for your answer, this was just what I was looking for!

 

[hichez50]

Does smash throwing and regular throwing have different frame data? I always wondered that?

 

[Pikabunz]

It's not different for Pikachu. It's probably the same for everyone else too.

 

[hichez50]

wow why did they even put a difference in the game then? That is kinda silly.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Cool thread. Hey I'm tryin to get ALOT better with D3, any advice? Message it to me.

 

[Deathfox30]

Why does a character sometimes drop an item when hit by a move and sometimes keep it when hit by the same move? I just noticed this and wondered if it was random or if there was a reason behind it.

 

[thundrio]

Just a quick question about advanced techniques in Brawl.

I know there are a lot of character specific techs, but what general techs should I be practicing (such as short hop fast falls, and di obviously), and is there a video like Waks advanced how to play (for melee).



thanks

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

How many frames of vulnerabilty do characters have when they get ground footstooled? If its character specific is there a general amount that applies to everyone? Studying a new pit tech

 

[F A N G]

How do you share a stock in doubles?

 

[Deathfox30]

How do you share a stock in doubles?

Hit A and B at the same time.

 

[da K.I.D.]

deathfox has a really good question, that i was wondering about the answer to too. about the rrandomly dropping of items... anybody gonna answer that?

 

[Blissard]

Do d-pad inputs or shake smash affect SDI?

 

[GOKU2.0]

Dac

Is it possible to Dash attack cancel on Wii controller and nunchuck

 

[GOKU2.0]

............

i guess not o well

 

[Blissard]

Is it possible to Dash attack cancel on Wii controller and nunchuck

Yeah it is possible, but what are you canceling it into?

Gatling combo/Snake's DA>Usmash don't need special controller configurations, but if you wanna DACUS or Boost Grab with WiiChuck, I suggest setting Dpad to Smash.

 

[GOKU2.0]

ok

o i didnt think it was possible i tried wit link didnt go well

 

[standardtoaster]

It is fully possible to do on any set up, As long as the proper inputs are given.

 

[GOKU2.0]

So how do i do it

 

[Blissard]

It is fully possible to do on any set up, As long as the proper inputs are given.

Standard WiiChuck Dpad is set to Jump/Grab/Shield, so dash attack and smash both need to be inputed using the A button. It's not humanly possible to input 2 almost simultaneous commands when the button has to be tapped twice @_@

@Goku: For DACUS, dash, hit any direction on the Dpad (set to smash; down is easiest) and almost instantly afterwards input an usmash with up+a.

Edit: it's easier to see on characters with bigger DACUS's like Sheik and Snake.