Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Clai]

lol Kirby's only even vs. Ganon? =/

You're reading the chart wrong. It says on the chart that Kirby has an advantage over Ganondorf, which is true, at least for now (like anyone has actually looked into Ganondorf's matchups seriously). If you want me to make a case, considering I main both of them, I could, but it's better to just leave that part of the chart as it is.

You may be reading that Kirby is neutral to Ice Climbers. Also true.

 

[JuanTendo]

how can anyone still say meta knight should be banned.... i'm not against meta knight, but lets think it was marth the one that was in danger of been banned...marth is no a new character that means many people allready know how to play with him...and it would be very unfair to take it out....

know lets think in the case of meta knight... hes totally new to smash...so no one will feel they are taken his character out...

and YES...i totally think meta knight players are the most lamme noob players out there...you SUCK

 

[Justblaze647]

Stuff

I understand what you're trying to do... but you're not helping the cause...

 

[XienZo]

how can anyone still say meta knight should be banned.... i'm not against meta knight, but lets think it was marth the one that was in danger of been banned...marth is no a new character that means many people allready know how to play with him...and it would be very unfair to take it out....

know lets think in the case of meta knight... hes totally new to smash...so no one will feel they are taken his character out...

and YES...i totally think meta knight players are the most lamme noob players out there...you SUCK

You haven't been around the forums, much have you?

Look up Dojo and M2K and a few others I can't remember

 

[Ace55]

So now Peach is > against Wario but Dedede is neutral? How can I take this seriously?

 

[Oddler]

Link has a masses advantage of Bowser. It's so bad I can't believe you have it as Bowser over Link. I agree with most of your matchups of Link VS ___....although you hit the nail wrong with Bowser. Same with Ganondorf....He was never meant to beat Link in any game...including Brawl. Links Zair and projectiles really does a HUGE number on Ganon because he's slow and big. Ganon gets ***** by Link. With DDD it's about even believe it or not.

 

[pastaboy]

ur just a link fanboy

 

[gantrain05]

Link has a masses advantage of Bowser. It's so bad I can't believe you have it as Bowser over Link. I agree with most of your matchups of Link VS ___....although you hit the nail wrong with Bowser. Same with Ganondorf....He was never meant to beat Link in any game...including Brawl. Links Zair and projectiles really does a HUGE number on Ganon because he's slow and big. Ganon gets ***** by Link. With DDD it's about even believe it or not.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. ok yeah sure man, Link goes even with DDD.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Iono, he's right about the rest of it.
Dedede vs Link isn't exactly Link getting *****, though it's still a disadvantage.

I'm still annoyed about Sonic being even with Bowser..
After I've argued it in this thread before....
Three times >_>..

 

[Hoser]

So do you just flip a coin to figure out who has the advantage, or do you honestly believe your chart? There's so many mistakes in it it's not even funny. Try looking around the character forums a bit more, you might learn something.

 

[IvanEva]

I'm still annoyed about Sonic being even with Bowser..
After I've argued it in this thread before....
Three times >_>..

And some Bowsers have argued against it. Can't please everybody, huh?

So do you just flip a coin to figure out who has the advantage, or do you honestly believe your chart? There's so many mistakes in it it's not even funny. Try looking around the character forums a bit more, you might learn something.

If you could, in percent value, rate how accurate my chart currently is, what would you put it at? 50%? 20%? 80%? I'm curious to know just how 'off' you feel it is.

Yes, I generally always believe the match-up that I put down when I put it down. It's based off of what I know, what I've seen, and what I've experienced. No coin flips involved. Honest.

I generally avoid character forums unless I've been told about some match-up altering thing that deserves investigating. See, some character boards are so chocked full of bias and fanboyism that it really puts me off of them. This is most common in the lower tier character boards. Another reason I don't swim around the boards all that much is because I (pretend to) have a life outside of Smash. I already spend way too much time on various boards. **** cocaine, message boards are the drugs of the future.

By the way, when going on about how my chart is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, please at least state ONE match-up that you believe is inaccurate. Criticism is important but there's not much 'improvement' I can do unless you tell me specifically what's bothering you.

My little quip on the Yoshi/Metaknight thingy (that I will never change until I believe it): Given that in the SBR-style counterpicking system you can always change your character every round, why isn't Yoshi popping up as everybody's secondary? I mean, if Yoshi himself has a bunch of bad match-ups (which is the reason for him not showing up to challenge Metaknights everywhere, right?) why not just switch him out for your primary character when your opponent doesn't pick Metaknight? If you lose to a Metaknight first round you get to first pick a level (FD or whatever other flat one for the chain grabs) then, if your opponent sticks with Metaknight you pick Yoshi. If next round you believe that you'll be against an anti-Yoshi, you switch out.

Another little note (which is slightly relevant to the above): I'm basing the whole advantage/disadvantage stuff on how I believe both characters fare against each other as an average of playing on all SBR-legal stages with a bit more importance on the starters.

 

[Mmac]

I generally avoid character forums unless I've been told about some match-up altering thing that deserves investigating. See, some character boards are so chocked full of bias and fanboyism that it really puts me off of them. This is most common in the lower tier character boards.

Fanboism, Yes. Biased, Not even close, and this is what you have to get over. Nobody ever goes around shouting whatever they want and recording it on some half baked chart. Every chart I have seen always discuss things through. They look into what their character has, and how they fare against the character they're discussing. Most importantly though, they actually get people of the repersenting discussed character to debate with. No Chart is biased, and if they are, then they get completely called upon by the community. Bias does not exist in the character boards, It's all in your thick head.

Plus I find it hard to believe that you call us biased when 2/3's of our Matchups are agreed upon by the repersenting matchup thread. We agree that we are neutral with MetaKnight\, and MetaKnight's have agreed with us that we are neutral. So how are we Biased when BOTH PARTIES AGREE ON THE RATIO OF THE MATCHUP!?

By the way, when going on about how my chart is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, please at least state ONE match-up that you believe is inaccurate. Criticism is important but there's not much 'improvement' I can do unless you tell me specifically what's bothering you.

Honestly though, I can name probably 50 Matchups that are inaccurate, excluding Yoshi's, which I have honestly given up on trying to convince you. When I give you a list of what matchups are wrong on Yoshi's side (Which is almost 3/4's!) With about half of them agreed by both parties, You only changed one matchup. The bigger blow is that the one matchup you changed was NOT one of the matchups I presented, making it even MORE inaccurate!

This is why people don't like your Chart, because whenever people point out the flaws, you just completely ignore them altogether. You don't seem to realize that this thread you are running is (Or rather used to be) a Major Completive Outlet. You made it for an reference to help people, but how helpful would it be when most of the characters matchups are over 40% wrong?

My little quip on the Yoshi/Metaknight thingy (that I will never change until I believe it): Given that in the SBR-style counterpicking system you can always change your character every round, why isn't Yoshi popping up as everybody's secondary? I mean, if Yoshi himself has a bunch of bad match-ups (which is the reason for him not showing up to challenge Metaknights everywhere, right?) why not just switch him out for your primary character when your opponent doesn't pick Metaknight? If you lose to a Metaknight first round you get to first pick a level (FD or whatever other flat one for the chain grabs) then, if your opponent sticks with Metaknight you pick Yoshi. If next round you believe that you'll be against an anti-Yoshi, you switch out.

I don't think you realize how Technical and Complex Yoshi is to use as an character. You need to Learn how:

- His Recovery Works
- To use grabs and attacks as an alternative Defence
- To combo in the air
- His projectile works, and learn proper aiming
- To combo/chaingrab out of release
- To combo with Bair
- To hit with Uair
- To Punish without Shields
- To use his multiple AT's to improve moves such as his Pivot Grab's and Eggs
- To use Escapes
- To Block Projectiles with attacks

This is the bare minimum you need to know just to be decent with him. There are some more stuff I left out such as DR's and Dthrow Tech Chasing, but my point is that Yoshi isn't a character that someone can just pick up and start slaughtering with him. This is what people need to understand.

It also doesn't help that people like you keep telling everyone that he is completely garbage, and a waste of time.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I generally avoid character forums unless I've been told about some match-up altering thing that deserves investigating. See, some character boards are so chocked full of bias and fanboyism that it really puts me off of them. This is most common in the lower tier character boards. Another reason I don't swim around the boards all that much is because I (pretend to) have a life outside of Smash. I already spend way too much time on various boards. **** cocaine, message boards are the drugs of the future.

And there's your problem.

Sure the match-up discussions themselves have issues with fanboyism, BUT there is a great deal of important data you can get from them. Frame data, techniques, effective playstyles, those are all worthy of investigation, and can be match-up changing.

If you are deciding a match-up ratio, it is your duty to investigate all relevant factors, I understand that some people don't have the time, but that's the exact reason why I don't maintain a project like this. The dedication required to keep it accurate is more then I can afford. If you can't afford that dedication, why do you bother? An inaccurate chart is no more useful then no chart.

My little quip on the Yoshi/Metaknight thingy (that I will never change until I believe it): Given that in the SBR-style counterpicking system you can always change your character every round, why isn't Yoshi popping up as everybody's secondary? I mean, if Yoshi himself has a bunch of bad match-ups (which is the reason for him not showing up to challenge Metaknights everywhere, right?) why not just switch him out for your primary character when your opponent doesn't pick Metaknight? If you lose to a Metaknight first round you get to first pick a level (FD or whatever other flat one for the chain grabs) then, if your opponent sticks with Metaknight you pick Yoshi. If next round you believe that you'll be against an anti-Yoshi, you switch out.

Because Yoshi is a difficult character to play.

He's actually far better for fighting MK as a main, and you pick secondaries to deal with his disadvantages. And he's too unpopular for that to be widely used.

 

[DanGR]

IvanEva, you could solve the problem if you included "(my opinion)" in the title.

 

[yummynbeefy]

i got a question why is pit vs dk unfavorable for pit
same question with dedede, game and watch, and olimar

 

[NFS (sonic)]

good post, i agree with most of it
but in my opinion
sonic > kirby
wolf > peach

 

[Tenki]

Sonic is <= Kirby.

Kirby's aerial game and priority is problematic for Sonic. Normally, this would be something that Sonic players can sort of discard with "we can just try to play a grounded game the whole time", but Kirby has multiple jumps and can keep the game more aerially-based. Sonic can fight Kirby's B-air WOP with his own B-airs, but it's slower and requires a little more accuracy on the Sonic's part. On the ground, Sonic can usually go toe-to-toe with Kirby. They both kill each other at around the same % though.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic=kirby. all of Kirby's kill moves (with the exception of bair) are punishable on block.
Kirby also doesn't like it when you Usmash since his aerial mobility is not enough to keep up with Sonic's groudn ability.
It is also good to be below kirby and use your Uair.
Whyy? If he turns into a rock you are more than capable of avoiding it and then punishing it.

Kirby does have aerial dominance and aerial priority, but I find that Sonic is capable of spacing better and maintaining his safely.

 

[M15t3R E]

Pikachu and Olimar boards agreed the match-up is even. Please mark a green ~ there to indicate that.

 

[illinialex24]

The Jigglypuff matchups are almost all messed up, in both ways. One example is the fact that the Diddy and Jigglypuff matchup is a slight advantage for Jigglypuff, and my Diddy Kong source on that is NinjaLink, an amazing Diddy Kong. He predicted and says the matchup is 55-45 in Jigglypuff's favor.

Meanwhile, every Jigglypuff will tell you that Falco Jigglypuff is a strong advantage in Falco's favor. Please fix her matchups, they need a lot of work.

 

[Clai]

Link has a masses advantage of Bowser. It's so bad I can't believe you have it as Bowser over Link. I agree with most of your matchups of Link VS ___....although you hit the nail wrong with Bowser. Same with Ganondorf....He was never meant to beat Link in any game...including Brawl. Links Zair and projectiles really does a HUGE number on Ganon because he's slow and big. Ganon gets ***** by Link. With DDD it's about even believe it or not.

LOL! It's six months people and we're still using the "Ganon's too slow and big" as an argument for Ganon's disadvantage. Seriously, the amount of disgrace this character gets is borderline insanity. Yeah, there's IvanEva's ever-stubborn refusal to admit that Yoshi = Metaknight, but at least most debaters discuss Yoshi seriously and not, "Hur hur hur yoshi's a dinosaur, let's give him a 30-70 disadvantage!" There are a large number of matchups that Ganondorf is at least neutral to (including my firm stance that Ganon = ROB, which Saturday's tournament only strengthened the idea), but I'm so tired of listening to people's bullcrap which somehow erases the legitamacy of everything I say that it's not even fun to argue anymore. This is why IvanEva's chart is so off- his bias is a freaking barrier that prevents the facts from coming through.

I am not suggesting in any way that Ganondorf = Link. It's not even close. Link's z-air does plenty to keep Ganon away, his faster aerials combined with his fall speed keep Ganondorf from doing much even when he approaches, and his other moves have disjointed priority that just own whatever Ganondorf has planned. Then there are the projectiles. Ganondorf has no zone to approach from and nothing to prevent Link from approaching with that claw-shot. But please, STOP SAYING GANONDORF LOSES BECAUSE HE'S OLD AND SLOW! PLEASE!

 

[illinialex24]

LOL! It's six months people and we're still using the "Ganon's too slow and big" as an argument for Ganon's disadvantage. Seriously, the amount of disgrace this character gets is borderline insanity. Yeah, there's IvanEva's ever-stubborn refusal to admit that Yoshi = Metaknight, but at least most debaters discuss Yoshi seriously and not, "Hur hur hur yoshi's a dinosaur, let's give him a 30-70 disadvantage!" There are a large number of matchups that Ganondorf is at least neutral to (including my firm stance that Ganon = ROB, which Saturday's tournament only strengthened the idea), but I'm so tired of listening to people's bullcrap which somehow erases the legitamacy of everything I say that it's not even fun to argue anymore. This is why IvanEva's chart is so off- his bias is a freaking barrier that prevents the facts from coming through.

I am not suggesting in any way that Ganondorf = Link. It's not even close. Link's z-air does plenty to keep Ganon away, his faster aerials combined with his fall speed keep Ganondorf from doing much even when he approaches, and his other moves have disjointed priority that just own whatever Ganondorf has planned. Then there are the projectiles. Ganondorf has no zone to approach from and nothing to prevent Link from approaching with that claw-shot. But please, STOP SAYING GANONDORF LOSES BECAUSE HE'S OLD AND SLOW! PLEASE!

Yoshi does not equal Metaknight. No one does. And in the matchup, he still loses but he is considered a CP because he does better than most. And as much as Ganondorfs metagame has evolved, he is still slow with slow moves with relatively little priority and that is why he has no favorable matchups. At all.

 

[Clai]

Yoshi does not equal Metaknight. No one does. And in the matchup, he still loses but he is considered a CP because he does better than most. And as much as Ganondorfs metagame has evolved, he is still slow with slow moves with relatively little priority and that is why he has no favorable matchups. At all.

Yoshi mains have been saying this for weeks. Plenty of other people have been saying it in this thread. Both boards agree with this matchup. It says 55-45 in favor of Metaknight, and for the intensive purposes of this chart, Yoshi = Metaknight. Normally I'm not one to jump on any bandwagon, but many of the people who say this is true know what they're talking about. I have no personal opinion on the matchup, I'm just saying what has been said for a long time now.

"Ganon is slow." Any character is as fast or as slow as the player makes him out to be. Some characters truly do expose Ganon's slowness since it makes him hard to approach said characters without getting punished (like Link as I said before, as well as Falco, Sonic, Ike and others). However, many, many other matchups are so much better than people say they are because they have yet to play a Ganondorf who doesn't suck and uses all of his strengths to his advantage. Ganondorf has plenty of things that can overcome his lack of speed, the primary ways I'll point out next.

"Ganon has slow moves." Good one. Ganon's f-tilt, d-tilt, dash-attack, jab, u-smash, and if you want to be technical with move speed, d-smash (although this particular one has far less use than the others) are all viable ground moves that can be used quickly and effectively. All of Ganon's aerials, save his f-air, have very little start-up time and are actually really, really good; and even his f-air has its uses. Flame chokes right out of short hops can easily catch someone by surprise and lead to Ganon's flame choke tech chases. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say Ganon has slow moves. If you use Ganon and think he has slow moves, then stop sucking, or leave Ganondorf to the people that can actually use him.

"Ganon has relatively low priority." I don't know what you're talking about here. Yeah, we have issues against Zelda's magic smashes, Pit and everyone else with a sword, but priority really isn't going to set us back in a typical match against the rest any time soon.

"Ganon has no favorable matchups." That's because everyone is way too pessimistic about Ganondorf's abilities and how people can use him correctly. I'm not saying that Ganon is going to be flying with check marks any time soon, but I believe that there will be a lot more neutral marks as the metagame continues to evolve, and maybe we'll sneak in a check mark or two. It's all a matter of how comfortable we are in using Ganondorf in a particular matchup.

 

[illinialex24]

Yoshi mains have been saying this for weeks. Plenty of other people have been saying it in this thread. Both boards agree with this matchup. It says 55-45 in favor of Metaknight, and for the intensive purposes of this chart, Yoshi = Metaknight. Normally I'm not one to jump on any bandwagon, but many of the people who say this is true know what they're talking about. I have no personal opinion on the matchup, I'm just saying what has been said for a long time now.

"Ganon is slow." Any character is as fast or as slow as the player makes him out to be. Some characters truly do expose Ganon's slowness since it makes him hard to approach said characters without getting punished (like Link as I said before, as well as Falco, Sonic, Ike and others). However, many, many other matchups are so much better than people say they are because they have yet to play a Ganondorf who doesn't suck and uses all of his strengths to his advantage. Ganondorf has plenty of things that can overcome his lack of speed, the primary ways I'll point out next.

"Ganon has slow moves." Good one. Ganon's f-tilt, d-tilt, dash-attack, jab, u-smash, and if you want to be technical with move speed, d-smash (although this particular one has far less use than the others) are all viable ground moves that can be used quickly and effectively. All of Ganon's aerials, save his f-air, have very little start-up time and are actually really, really good; and even his f-air has its uses. Flame chokes right out of short hops can easily catch someone by surprise and lead to Ganon's flame choke tech chases. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you say Ganon has slow moves. If you use Ganon and think he has slow moves, then stop sucking, or leave Ganondorf to the people that can actually use him.

"Ganon has relatively low priority." I don't know what you're talking about here. Yeah, we have issues against Zelda's magic smashes, Pit and everyone else with a sword, but priority really isn't going to set us back in a typical match against the rest any time soon.

"Ganon has no favorable matchups." That's because everyone is way too pessimistic about Ganondorf's abilities and how people can use him correctly. I'm not saying that Ganon is going to be flying with check marks any time soon, but I believe that there will be a lot more neutral marks as the metagame continues to evolve, and maybe we'll sneak in a check mark or two. It's all a matter of how comfortable we are in using Ganondorf in a particular matchup.

Umm... he is slow and overall, his moveset is slower than most characters. I friednly Ganon a lot and I know his moveset fairly well. As far as his other aerials go, a lot of other character can beat him out and I think his best move is his B-side, dair or jab but only jab is really fast and cannot be used consistently. And 55-45 is not equal, its a slight advantage.

 

[-Mars-]

Ganon has 3 auto cancelled aerials and IASA frames on a bunch of his moves. 0 lag dairs as a defensive manuever into flame choke, jab, dtilt, or anything he wants can be pretty formidable. Add to the fact that he kills early, has a great edgeguard game, and can actually defend against gimps.......and you have a decent character.

@ Oddler- no way in hell does Link do well against DDD. DDD can chaingrab Link across the stage every time, outranges Link, and can easily avoid Links zair. Don't even get me started on how easily DDD gimps Link.

 

[gantrain05]

Ganon has 3 auto cancelled aerials and IASA frames on a bunch of his moves. 0 lag dairs as a defensive manuever into flame choke, jab, dtilt, or anything he wants can be pretty formidable. Add to the fact that he kills early, has a great edgeguard game, and can actually defend against gimps.......and you have a decent character.

@ Oddler- no way in hell does Link do well against DDD. DDD can chaingrab Link across the stage every time, outranges Link, and can easily avoid Links zair. Don't even get me started on how easily DDD gimps Link.

please tell me what moves ganon has SA frames on because being a long time ganon player i have yet to find any SA on anything other than the flame choke AFTER he already has their neck in his hands, which quite frankly, doesn't really help out in a 1v1.

 

[-Mars-]

please tell me what moves ganon has SA frames on because being a long time ganon player i have yet to find any SA on anything other than the flame choke AFTER he already has their neck in his hands, which quite frankly, doesn't really help out in a 1v1.

I don't think you know what IASA frames are, they are not Super Armor frames if that is what you were implying.

 

[gantrain05]

I don't think you know what IASA frames are, they are not Super Armor frames if that is what you were implying.

oh, my bad, i usually don't abbreviate alot of things lol, i was thinking IA = invincibilty armor and SA = Super armor, so if you don't mind clarifying what IASA is?

 

[Mmac]

And 55-45 is not equal, its a slight advantage.

Well now I actually DO think it's neutral due to Pokemon Stadium 1 being a primary Neutral now, though some MetaKnights are saying the opposite though. I don't see why though. Yoshi benefits the most from the standard layout, while Fire and Earth are in his favour. MetaKnight only really has Grass, and Water is about neutral.

My point is that Yoshi now has more than half the neutrals to his advantage now, making the first round match always to his advantage.

 

[gantrain05]

Mmac i want to play your yoshi, i've never had the chance to play a good yoshi main in brawl, how do you feel about yoshi vs peach matchup?

 

[-Mars-]

oh, my bad, i usually don't abbreviate alot of things lol, i was thinking IA = invincibilty armor and SA = Super armor, so if you don't mind clarifying what IASA is?

Interruptable As Soon AS. Means you can input for another move before your current move is complete. Ganon can usmash and due to the IASA frames, buffer a dtilt or jab to prevent followups. The dtilt or jab would come out on the earliest possible frame.

 

[Mmac]

Mmac i want to play your yoshi, i've never had the chance to play a good yoshi main in brawl, how do you feel about yoshi vs peach matchup?

I haven't really played much Peach's, but the ones I have were just brutal... well in the sense that they knew what they were doing but I didn't

.

That being said, I still think it's Neutral at worse. Yoshi has some great options to deal with her float and turnip game

However Jedi Peach is instant 9:1 Disadvantage. That sword still gives me nightmares

 

[illinialex24]

I haven't really played much Peach's, but the ones I have were just brutal... well in the sense that they knew what they were doing but I didn't

.

That being said, I still think it's Neutral at worse. Yoshi has some great options to deal with her float and turnip game

However Jedi Peach is instant 9:1 Disadvantage. That sword still gives me nightmares

Omg Jedi Peach. Kill me now!!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yoshi does not equal Metaknight. No one does. And in the matchup, he still loses but he is considered a CP because he does better than most. And as much as Ganondorfs metagame has evolved, he is still slow with slow moves with relatively little priority and that is why he has no favorable matchups. At all.

Umm... he is slow and overall, his moveset is slower than most characters. I friednly Ganon a lot and I know his moveset fairly well. As far as his other aerials go, a lot of other character can beat him out and I think his best move is his B-side, dair or jab but only jab is really fast and cannot be used consistently. And 55-45 is not equal, its a slight advantage.

...

Firstly, about Yoshi, you're obviously misunderstanding. A "neutral match-up" can be either 50-50 or 55-45 or just 50-50 depending on the boards involved. The Marth boards are the most obvious case of 55-45 being considered a not-neutral match-up.

But as far as both the Yoshi and MK boards seem concerned, 55-45 is neutral. It deserves to be listed as such.


As for Ganondorf, the CF match-up says high, and there are other definate possibilities. Ganondorf is a decent defensive character because he can punish well and hard. He's also got good priority and a great gimping game because of tipman, plus Ganoncide.

The problem is, most of his match-ups force him to approach. Add that to a very lackluster recovery and a poor movement speed and you have a bad character. It sucks, but as long as he's not forced to approach, he's really not too bad and stands a decent chance.

However, there are certain match-ups where he just gets totally outspaced, which are, in spite of his lack of a need to approach, are his worst.

 

[Clai]

The problem is, most of his match-ups force him to approach. Add that to a very lackluster recovery and a poor movement speed and you have a bad character. It sucks, but as long as he's not forced to approach, he's really not too bad and stands a decent chance.

However, there are certain match-ups where he just gets totally outspaced, which are, in spite of his lack of a need to approach, are his worst.

Might I add to that, it's not really the being forced to approach that causes Ganondorf problems (when I have a nice flow of options, the approach itself is pretty painless), it's more that once Ganondorf is inside the other character's zone, he doesn't have anything that can pressure the opponent while keeping himself safe. All of his options leave him open, even if by a small amount, and any character that can capitalize on those small openings will create a bleak outlook for Ganondorf.

Ganondorf's truly worst matchups are those characters that are constantly in Ganondorf's zone without giving him a chance to incorporate his defensive options. Characters that can outspace him, like Samus and DK, can get figured out and dispatched without too much issue. It's those characters that are constantly getting in Ganon's face, like Sheik and Peach, which just cause absolute nightmares.

 

[gantrain05]

Might I add to that, it's not really the being forced to approach that causes Ganondorf problems (when I have a nice flow of options, the approach itself is pretty painless), it's more that once Ganondorf is inside the other character's zone, he doesn't have anything that can pressure the opponent while keeping himself safe. All of his options leave him open, even if by a small amount, and any character that can capitalize on those small openings will create a bleak outlook for Ganondorf.

Ganondorf's truly worst matchups are those characters that are constantly in Ganondorf's zone without giving him a chance to incorporate his defensive options. Characters that can outspace him, like Samus and DK, can get figured out and dispatched without too much issue. It's those characters that are constantly getting in Ganon's face, like Sheik and Peach, which just cause absolute nightmares.

ever played ganon vs a very good diddY? omg it sucks so hard lol, even trying to just land a single hit is a pain in the arse.

 

[Ruse]

ROB < DDD
ROB = Zelda
ROB < Peach
ROB < Mario

Keep with the times, man.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ganon has 3 auto cancelled aerials and IASA frames on a bunch of his moves. 0 lag dairs as a defensive manuever into flame choke, jab, dtilt, or anything he wants can be pretty formidable. Add to the fact that he kills early, has a great edgeguard game, and can actually defend against gimps.......and you have a decent character.

@ Oddler- no way in hell does Link do well against DDD. DDD can chaingrab Link across the stage every time, outranges Link, and can easily avoid Links zair. Don't even get me started on how easily DDD gimps Link.

How does DDD easily avoid Link's Zair?

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi>>Ganondorf
Yoshi>Jigglypuff
Yoshi>Wario
Yoshi<<Mr. Game & Watch
Yoshi>>Squirtle
Yoshi=Ice Climbers
Yoshi=Diddy
Yoshi=Charizard

Again, keep with the times.

 

[-Mars-]

How does DDD easily avoid Link's Zair?

Uhhhhh.......jump over it.