Brawl 64 - Back to the Basics - Announcement about the title screen

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

@NAMQ

This is kinda minor, but you said Sheik will need a tether fix. Which she won't, because her tether is her Side-Special. Which should be removed, am I right?

Me likey new beta.

no side B's doesn't mean we will taake away the chain, or the Ice Climbers spin, or the Zelda's Din's Fire >_>

we will remove one special, not the Side B, like

Jiggly will no remove the Pound, but the rollout

Link will not remove the boomrang, but the arrows

Ness will not loose Pk Fire, but the Pk Flash




and, for sheik, we might as well take transform, why??? because in 64, no character was made to change, and prolly, the pokemons will be independant, and so on Zelda and Sheik will


idk, also, this are some suggestions

 

[n88]

I would really like for Zelda/Sheik to be able to switch. It's kinda the point of the character. They're meant to swap back and forth as needed. Coming from a Zelda/Sheik main, KEEP TRANSFORM. IT IS THE SINGLE BEST MOVE THAT EITHER SHEIK OR ZELDA HAS.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

well, this can be true yes, not that the move is to be used to win, but

zelda even on the game Hid her self as Sheik to protect her self, so, why not Hide too in Brawl 64, zelda/sheik can be the only character to be able to switch, but, I Vote from now, that the future pokemons will be independant, and keep all other specials, so, Down B will take place of their previous (Side B or Neutral B)

 

[metaXzero]

I would really like for Zelda/Sheik to be able to switch. It's kinda the point of the character. They're meant to swap back and forth as needed. Coming from a Zelda/Sheik main, KEEP TRANSFORM. IT IS THE SINGLE BEST MOVE THAT EITHER SHEIK OR ZELDA HAS.

It's not the point and they certainly don't suck without the other. It was the intent, but Sakurai failed miserably in Melee (average Zelda, broken Sheik) while in Brawl.........I don't know. I always hear stories of Zelda/Sheik mains, but when I look at matches, either
A.) Sheik goes to Zelda for recovery then switches back when safe.
B.) Zelda never changes and just stayes there.

I never see "build damage with Sheik, then KO with Zelda" in play.

Zelda could lose her Nayru's Love and Sheik loses the whip?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

It's not the point and they certainly don't suck without the other. It was the intent, but Sakurai failed miserably in Melee (average Zelda, broken Sheik) while in Brawl.........I don't know. I always hear stories of Zelda/Sheik mains, but when I look at matches, either
A.) Sheik goes to Zelda for recovery then switches back when safe.
B.) Zelda never changes and just stayes there.

I never see "build damage with Sheik, then KO with Zelda" in play.

Zelda could lose her Nayru's Love and Sheik loses the whip?

also truth, I main Sheik in brawl, and I use zelda also, but in my fights... I never, ever use down B XD

but, if some people do, well I don't know... we can make a Poll thread of wish B move should be removed so we have only 3 special moves

-edit-

well, ok, if we are going to keep transform, we need to get rid of Sheik's Chain, and about zelda, Nayru's love can give her an offensive/defensive game options, and Din's Fire will be gimp to some characters, since we will remove Air Dodging, so, I vote to keep Nayru's Love and remove Din's Fire

 

[Epic Kovumon]

Yeah, I'm having a problem with the game freezing at the start of the match, too.

 

[Shadic]

Here, a quick poll for the Zelda/Sheik argument.

I prefer Separate.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Here, a quick poll for the Zelda/Sheik argument.

I prefer Separate.

Leaving them separate, at least for this 64 version, just makes picking their Down-Bs easier, lol. Side-Bs are now Down-Bs, easy.

 

[Shadic]

And it doesn't limit their move count.

Actually, I think Zelda's B should be moved to her DownB, and her SideB would be moved to B.

Sheik could go either way. (Giggity)

 

[Chileno4Live]

And it doesn't limit their move count.

Actually, I think Zelda's B should be moved to her DownB, and her SideB would be moved to B.

Sheik could go either way. (Giggity)

I guess this is the best idea yeah. Anyway, is there any vid of this in action? I'd like to check it out before i actually am going to download it..

 

[n88]

@Zelda/Sheik stuff

I and everybody I know who plays Brawl switches back and forth (Well, eight people out of nine. Close enough). At any rate, unless you play as Zelda/Sheik, I'm not sure why you shuold have any say in the argument.

Zelda's side B sucks, and the chain is only really useful for recovery (Which would be eliminated anyway, since it's a tether). Why not eliminate the crappy moves and retain the character's charm?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I guess this is the best idea yeah. Anyway, is there any vid of this in action? I'd like to check it out before i actually am going to download it..

idk if there is a vid of this anywhere

but, if I manage to make another codeset that doesn't freeze, like the one I had 8 months ago

I'll upload some vids, so people can see how the 12 cast members feel, without any hitbox changes, just speed and mechanic changes

 

[Shadic]

I and everybody I know who plays Brawl switches back and forth (Well, eight people out of nine. Close enough). At any rate, unless you play as Zelda/Sheik, I'm not sure why you shuold have any say in the argument.

Zelda's side B sucks, and the chain is only really useful for recovery (Which would be eliminated anyway, since it's a tether). Why not eliminate the crappy moves and retain the character's charm?

I don't know a single Zelda/Sheik main that switches back and forth, besides Melee, and that was for recovery. (Load/change times are too slow in Brawl.)

Zelda's SideB doesn't suck at all, and with high hit/shieldstun, and no airdodging, I have the feeling it could be really good in Brawl64. Sheik's chain would cause massive shield damage.

And it's not like every move a character has needs to be good anyways.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

does everyone here use character .pac files to play alot???

I'm thinking of making a codeset, but, with the use of the .pac

going to fix only the aerial start up lag, and some of the ending lag, and the grbs and stuff, so I don't have to mess alot with the frame speed data mod code, well, if the next to posts, cheer me to do it, well, there's no more waiting I'll do it, since I'm ultra bored, and I can really work on it for a whole while without stopping

I'm not changing animations, cause that could take me a while, but just going to change some of the physics and the characters physics for grabs and aerials

ok, be back to this thread in a couple of minutes, cheer me and I'll start

 

[n88]

I don't know a single Zelda/Sheik main that switches back and forth, besides Melee, and that was for recovery. (Load/change times are too slow in Brawl.)

Zelda's SideB doesn't suck at all, and with high hit/shieldstun, and no airdodging, I have the feeling it could be really good in Brawl64. Sheik's chain would cause massive shield damage.

And it's not like every move a character has needs to be good anyways.

*Shrugs* Like I said, pretty much everybody I know does it. I'm willing to bet that almost everyone would do it if the change was Melee speed (Although I don't think that there's anything we can do about that).

You're right when you say that changes could make Din's good, but it sucks in VBrawl. Epicly.

Anyway, taking away the switch just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, no matter how I look at it. Reasoning seems to be this:

No characters could switch in 64

This is just faulty logic. No-one's been talking about removing Nana because there were no duo in SSB64. No-ones been talking about removing Olimar because there were no characters with Pikmin in SSB64. If you're expanding beyond the O12, you're adding things that weren't there to begin with anyway. Why discriminate against Zelda/Sheik?

 

[Shadic]

Uh, we're doing the same thing for Pokemon. It's because changing cuts off one more B more for the characters, and you only have 3 in Smash64.

NAMQ - I think everybody figured we were using .pacs. We need to for the heavy move changes we're going to implement.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

*Shrugs* Like I said, pretty much everybody I know does it. I'm willing to bet that almost everyone would do it if the change was Melee speed (Although I don't think that there's anything we can do about that).

You're right when you say that changes could make Din's good, but it sucks in VBrawl. Epicly.

Anyway, taking away the switch just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, no matter how I look at it. Reasoning seems to be this:

No characters could switch in 64

This is just faulty logic. No-one's been talking about removing Nana because there were no duo in SSB64. No-ones been talking about removing Olimar because there were no characters with Pikmin in SSB64. If you're expanding beyond the O12, you're adding things that weren't there to begin with anyway. Why discriminate against Zelda/Sheik?

Ice Climbers name is in... plural >_> we will keep them both, not popo alone, since they were crearted as a Duo

Olimar in the game has the pikmin... it's like saying link should not do spin attack cause mario doesn't have it, or saying, pikachu should not have thunder cause Yoshi can't do it either...

also olimar grabs with the pikmin :O

and I know you are going to say, zelda changed in the game too... but think again she only did to help link, not to fight, lol, idk, we will see what we will do this, and of course, you will also know, that once you use zelda or sheik, and you win some matches without changing to the other, you might change your mind, but if you don't idk what I can say lol


@Shadic

well, ok, I'll start working with the codeset first, then I'll mess with the .pac's

 

[n88]

@NAMQ

Uhh...I kinda meant that the other way around from the way you're taking it. As in, Nana isn't leaving Popo, why should Sheik leave Zelda? Not Sheik's leaving Zelda, so Nana shoud leave Popo.

@Shadic

If you just want to keep all the specials, why not make Transform the taunt for Zelda/Sheik?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

@n88

can be considered, who knows, ideas will always be welcome ^^

 

[Shadic]

That would remove a taunt. I'm not sure if we're keeping all of them, or just one, or just one, and we could make an exception for Zelda/Sheik.

It's not a bad idea, I would still just prefer separate characters.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

DONE!

ok, I made a codeset out of these codes


SSB64 CSS [spunit262]

-S canceling Phantom wings

Buffer MOD [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
2 frame buffer

Auto-Jab Fix [spunit262, Phantom Wings]


Dash Dancing [Phantom Wings]

Shield Stun V8 [spunit262]
(Old shield stun*X+Z)/Y=new shield stun
VBrawl = 100% 1x1/1
B+ 3.3 = 204% 10x20/5
testing = 304% 15x20/5

No Autosweetspot Ledges [spunit262, 7 Lines]

Dash Cancel V2.1 [Phantom Wings, spunit262]

Shield during Dashdance [spunit262/Phantom Wings

Tech Window v.05 [spunit262]
same as B+

No Stale Moves [spunit262]


Tripping Rate Modifier [KirbyIsCool]


Triple Jump Glitch Fix [Phantom Wings/spunit262]


Hitstun Modifier [Phantom Wings/spunit262]

.55=15% hitstun

C-Stick Fastfalls Modifier [spunit262/Phantom Wings]

Powershield window Modifier [spunit262]


Infinite Replays


Tags in replays [Y.S]


Ledge Invincibility Duration (Y.S.)


Grab Jump Return [Phantom wings]


Unrestricted Pause camera

Unrestricted Replay Camera

Char ID fix 2.1 [spunit262, The Paprika Killer]

Frame Speed Mod Engine V3.1 [spunit262, Phantom Wings]

Frame Speed Modifier Data
065A9400 00000028
FF000074 40800000
FF000061 3FA66666
FF000041 3FD55555
FF00000A 3FA66666
FF0E0054 40A00000

Colored shields [Phantom wings]

File Patch Code v3.5.1 (NTSC-U) [Phantom Wings]


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and here are the .pac and the .gct

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dd1b15484b3b91ff8ef1259ff1b60e81a9d4c6a8fe91ea4d9d4bfef7ef5beeff

Haven't tested it, but, I hope it doesn't freeze

Enjoy ^^

Made in a couple of hours, used calculator for the frame speed event on the Aerial attacks and grabs, those were the only changes made

Speeded Up Aerials to match the fastest aerial that characters possed, a example:

Yoshi's aerial attack speed
Nair 2
Fair 18
Bair 9
Uair 4
Dair 13

so I made all yoshi's attacks start at frame 2, but, when the hitbox appear, speed is changed .8x, so it gets slow down a bit

did that to all characters, but removed the allow interrupt of all aerial attack that had that property

grabs for all (except Yoshi, Samus and Link) were speed up x2

if it doesn't freeze let me know, so I can warm up ^^

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Holy crap, so we basically have to download all of the characters.pac o_o?
This is not going to be very convenient when the other characters get in.

Btw, why removing most Taunts now >_>?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

well I didn't knew we were going to remove taunts

but samus needs taunts remove, so she can't no longer transform into ZSS

but, about the taunts, they are not necesarry, and/or changes gamplay, so removing them, should not affect it, Side B's will for most characters, but taunts won't

 

[Epic Kovumon]

NAMQ, think you can make a TXT files for the codes? I like to put them in my txtcodes folder so I can upload them with cheat manager.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Zelda's side B sucks,

Imma let you finish but... Zelda has one of the best side-B's of all time.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

NAMQ, think you can make a TXT files for the codes? I like to put them in my txtcodes folder so I can upload them with cheat manager.

Also Done ^^

didn't knew I needed to uppload that since the .gct was already in there

prolly you can view the codes from there, and also add codes with the txt code

Enjoy

 

[-dUb-]

I would suggest putting all the .pac files in a .zip or .rar or something.
Easier than downloading one at a time

 

[Zodac]

64 does have stale moves, you should use a 1/4 system or a 1/3 or now.

with edge-hogging on the 64, the character hogging will register he is on the edge for way longer than melee/brawl

stale moves damage

mario fireball
7 - 7
13 - 6
19 - 6
25 - 6
ect.

samus big balls
26 - 26
46 - 20
66 - 20
ect.

link boomerang

9 - 9
16 - 7
23 - 7
30 - 7
ect.

lugi up b

21 - 21
40 - 19
59 - 19
ect.

fox side smash

17 - 17
30 - 13
43- 13
ect.

knockback on the other hand differs much greater, use a move too much and you won't be able to kill with it

 

[Nybb]

I think the two sets so far should sort of merge. NAMQ's is obviously more fleshed out (haven't played it yet) since Wheel just started this up recently, but it is missing some things that Wheel has in like more friction and a proper staling system.

 

[WheelOfFish]

No sliding/High friction (based on Global Friction Modifier [Igglyboo])
04520100 3D6C56D5
C2857658 00000006
9421FF80 BC410008
3EC08052 C3360100
C023D134 3AC02EF0
7C00B000 40820008
EC21C82A B8410008
38210080 00000000

No air dodging/gliding/water lag
4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 00000008
2C030000 41820010
2C1C0021 40820008
3B800033 60000000
2C1C0084 40820008
3B80000E 60000000
2C1C00B5 40820008
3B8000B6 60000000
939E0038 00000000

And I was using the 3/4 power stale negation. I'm not guaranteeing that these codes work perfectly XD

Really nice work NAMQ! I'll try out your latest set as soon as I get the chance.

Sorry for not being very active, I've been sick for the past few days.

 

[Dantarion]

No Charging Smashes(Affects All Characters)[Dantarion]
04FB2A28 00000012
04FB2C40 00000012
04FB2D28 00000012

This should work for this, right?
EDIT:
64 didn't have ledgejump, only ledge hop, right?

 

[WheelOfFish]

O_O If that works, I want to marry you. *runs off to test* You are amazing.

Not sure about ledgejumping... I'll go check. XD

 

[Dantarion]

I tried removing grab pummel too, but so far, no luck

 

[MK26]

why not just remove the hiboxes through PSA or the Hitbox Mod code?

 

[Nybb]

This should work for this, right?
EDIT:
64 didn't have ledgejump, only ledge hop, right?

Correct. And there was no ledgeroll either.

 

[BurningCrusader777]

Couldn't you just replace pummeling with a forward throw? It was like that in 64 IIRC.

 

[MK26]

what do you mean no ledgeroll?

 

[Dantarion]

why not just remove the hiboxes through PSA or the Hitbox Mod code?

Because that is sloppy and requires editing every character's .pac.

My way of doing things is the cleanest way possible. I remap the action so that its impossible to trigger it with ANY character, no matter what.

 

[[TSON]]

...Is this project even going to use pacs?

 

[Shadic]

Why wouldn't it? Have you read the topic at all? There's a HUGE amount of things to be changed. Including what moves are allocated to which inputs. (Swapping B moves around.)