Brawl 64 - Back to the Basics - Announcement about the title screen

[Shadic]

While we're talking random move changes - Use Link's third jab animation for his Dash Attack. Also, he needs his rapid-jab back. It would work sorta like Pit's - Different between pressing A slowly, and quickly.

 

[timothyung]

I mean...
- No chargeable smash attacks is a most
- No pivot Grabs, change them to Turn animation or anything but, no reverseable grabs must be shown in here
- Z air must be removed

What? Removing these won't make the play style more like 64.
And remove sideB? Characters moveset rework? No way.

I suppose we're making Brawl with 64 style, but not a copy with more characters

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Well with this beta, I'd have to say I love the feel of the physics. It's faster and heavier than Brawl but slower and lighter than Melee or even Brawl+. I like that. I can finally play as Fox again without dying all over the place cause of how god**** heavy they made him in Brawl+ XD

The only thing I'd have to say has to go is the air L/R changes...I like being able to air-dodge instead of being juggled endlessly to helplessly attacked in middair before landing a counter. It's gotta go, we don't need to take out air-dodge to have 64 physics. ¦3

 

[_Bankai_]

I'll post it, but it has no changes. This is still the original.

Beta v0.01

Will respond to all the comments tommorow.

Wait, no changes aside from the physics changes? Sorry, someone fill me in on what's exactly in this beta, don't feel like reading through a mountain of posts.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

idk why people only want to keep brawl physics, cause they only want to make this feel like 64 gameplay, why would Air Dodge be implemented... if Juggles was one of the N64 smash physics >_>

people and their request which most not be considered, I prefer the N64 play style, even though I didn't play 64 competitive nor with alot of people, but it was fun to combo, and your suggestions will not help the sakes of this project

removing side B will be done, and no turning back, if you don't want to download this codeset, well it's up to you, if you like it or not, we won't force nobody (I mean, I'm not the one making this project, but, I'm encouraging the programer/creator to do it right)

so, idk, if he implements such things... I prefer coding the characters myself and make the true 64 myslef >_> even if it takes me a while, I'm used to do simple PSA coding which is what most be done to the whole cast

I'm going to read the OP once the one making this projects logs on post something, if he agree's on giving air dodges and stuff, he is accepting requests out of N64 physiscs, well smash 64 players will think the project fails and possibly not want to try it, or try it and don't like it

so, if he accept those mindless request, I might as well ignore this thread

 

[Revan Skywalker]

no knee in brawl64?

ok, i guess it is the price, although it belongs to the captain :/

However, Fox had a different side Smash, maybe dash attack would fit well?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

no knee in brawl64?

ok, i guess it is the price, although it belongs to the captain :/

However, Fox had a different side Smash, maybe dash attack would fit well?

zomg! you are right, fox Fair and Fsmash were also different, both using an animation really simmilar

I think, fast ledge attack can work, if he haves a kick animation, idk, but, dash attack won't feel right, cause both dash attack and Fsmash would be the same

 

[WheelOfFish]

My plan is for Brawl 64 to feel like SSB64... and as close to it as possible. Moveset wise, this means no chargable smashes, no air dodges, three specials, no z-air, ect. We can't include those things and keep it true to the N64 version at the same time. With Brawl 64's planned physics (which will be emulating SSB64's physics as closely as possible) it's just not possible to include those things without making the game feel like an inferior Brawl+.

Brawl 64 is going to keep the original cast only until we can replicate SSB64's physics as perfectly as possible. Once we do this, we will balance the original cast to the extent where they are all close to being on equal levels, and slowly add in the other characters.

I think I'll put the stuff I said above in the original post. Is it okay if I quote some of the things you said or variants of them, NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT? I really agree with you.

Move animation wise, I don't know how exact we'll be able to get each character to their 64 counterpart, but that's far off in the distance since we haven't even got physics close to being done.

Taunt canceling is something I'd love to add, and absolutely will if a code is made for it. But keep in mind that it's very low on my list of things to do for the project.

Shanus, it'd be so awesome if you could program z-cancelling. If you ever get the time, let me know!
I'll have beta v0.02 up soon, so don't worry about the previous gct I provided.

 

[[TSON]]

"Soon" being soon enough that I shouldn't download at all despite wanting to?

 

[WheelOfFish]

Beta v0.02

Again, keep in mind that I'm releasing this build to get critiques on the changes I've made so far. I know what is missing (ie: removing DI, specials, ect.) so I don't want need suggestions on what needs added. Also understand that character balance is skewed beyond belief right now... I have done nothing to any of the characters yet. It will get fixed after the physics and related things are perfected. What I really need feedback on is what I have changed so far. Don't download this expecting Brawl 64, because you will be disappointed. Like I said, this is beta v0.02... saying that Brawl 64 is far from being done is a huge understatement. This beta is for testing purposes only!

Includes:
-SSB64 CSS
-No random tripping
-3/4 power stale system
-Auto jab fix
-Hitstun
-S-cancelling
-No sliding/High friction
-No airdodging
-Lagless water
-No gliding
-Dash dancing
-Shield stun
-No auto sweetspot ledges
-Hitlag modifier
-Framespeed modifier

Sorry, no ALR yet. Will get to it soon.​

 

[The_Guide]

Unless I'm mistaken (or there's some reason for it), there's no d/l link in the OP. You might want to get on that.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Added to the front post.

 

[[TSON]]

Jigglypuff can't run lol. She just starts, then freezes.

EDIT: Nobody can...

EDIT: Shield stun feels really low.. Less than Brawl+ even. That's not right..

And so does hitstun.

EDIT: Running with Falcon = game freeze

 

[WheelOfFish]

Wtf? I'll look into it. I guess go try beta v0.01 for now. Maybe it's the framespeed mod...

 

[[TSON]]

Alrighty then.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

I'd like to ask of you. Why do you want to change the moveset to 3 specials so bad? And why no Z-air? This should be Brawl 64. At the moment, you're more like doing "SSB64 Graphics +".

I understand no Airdodging and such things, but why making it so authentic? You're just hurting the game by removing 1 special and chargeable smash.

I'd just like an explanation, if it doesn't bother you.

 

[[TSON]]

Lol Kirby has a kajillion chaingrabs

 

[metaXzero]

@RyuReiatsu

As he has already said, he WANTS to make the game as authentic as possible. To make it as close to the original Smash 64 as can be. Keeping things from the sequels hurts that authenticity and makes it less of a Smash 64 recreation (how much is opinion). ESPECIALLY things like charged Smashes and Z-airs. If you say "but it was an improvement", well I could say less shieldstun was an improvement. And so on...

Of course, characters like Samus will be hurt much by losing their Side-Bs and Z-airs, but he did say after he gets the physics right, he'll work on balancing characters...

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I think I'll put the stuff I said above in the original post. Is it okay if I quote some of the things you said or variants of them, NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT? I really agree with you.

be my guess body ^^

I'm going to let my friends know to the beta which has all of the 12 cast and the physics done, so we can just try it as 64, then follow the updates with the added characters to know how they actually feel sixtyfourized into action!!!

WheelOfFish keep up the nice updates and plans

-Edit-

about olimar, ZSS and Ivysaur, they should not get a tether recovery, I can help on making a recovery for Ivysaur atleast, and maybe try olimar next and maybe ZSS

why I say this, cause there was no tether there in 64, and no Auto Snaps, and Tethers auto snap the ledge, making some recoveries for others worthless, they will have gimp power, example

throws will be buffed, so they kill faster like 64, and as an example, I just Bthrow C.F with Ivysaur, he almost died, but did nice DI, he tried to recover... once he used Up B, I jumped above him a lil to stop him from grabbin me, then I fast fall and Tether Sweetspot him to death, this will be an impact to some recovery moves

so, I personally can try making recoveries for them if you agree this one with me

well, c ya later, i'll be looking into this thread later

 

[RyuReiatsu]

@RyuReiatsu

As he has already said, he WANTS to make the game as authentic as possible. To make it as close to the original Smash 64 as can be. Keeping things from the sequels hurts that authenticity and makes it less of a Smash 64 recreation (how much is opinion). ESPECIALLY things like charged Smashes and Z-airs. If you say "but it was an improvement", well I could say less shieldstun was an improvement. And so on...

Of course, characters like Samus will be hurt much by losing their Side-Bs and Z-airs, but he did say after he gets the physics right, he'll work on balancing characters...

Well, this is just hurting the game in general, making it less interesting.
More shield stun is for shieldbreaking and all the tralala it came with. More combos, pressure and stuff. I still fail to see the logic of removing Side Bs? Not like it makes the game a whole lot different... It simply gives more attacks.


EDIT: Are you changing 'A' movesets too?

EDIT 2:

Jigglypuff can't run lol. She just starts, then freezes.

EDIT: Nobody can...

EDIT: Shield stun feels really low.. Less than Brawl+ even. That's not right..

And so does hitstun.

EDIT: Running with Falcon = game freeze

Running with Samus freezes the game too.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

idk about that one, you mean jabs, or just all A moves in general?

if thats so, some of them, not all, and not all characters, only to the 64 cast members

the game is not yet Brawl 64, it will be a beta of SBB 64, but using brawl, once it's done, it will step to Brawl 64 beta section, so this project will influence 2 games

SSB64 2.0 and Brawl 64 (I think it should be done, since once SSB 64 is done to complete physiscs and character (12 cast of N64) Balance and make them feel almost the same as they were before, we can actually start the suggestion for implementing:

Melee characters:

Bowser, Peach, Ganon, Falco, Ic's, Zelda, Sheik, G&W, Marth

I believe we should add the melee cast first, then the Brawl Cast:

Wario, DiddyKong, Toon Link, R.O.B, Pit, DDD, MK, Olimar, Wolf, Lucario, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucas, Snake, Sonic

melee cast will be able to get fixed faster since they are very similar to the 64 cast gameplay, but sheik and the Ic's will have tether Fixes, they must not have it in order to procced with the physics of 64

and idk, the order in where they are implemented, can be voted, but voted on a poll thread, cause it's easier to do it that way, so we don't have to be reading post to post to get the votes done

idk, this is also a suggestion, but the thrill of winning the character which will be released next will be an awsome feeling, and another thing, poor space animals will be low tier in this project, but, aerial gameplay is what 64 has best since ALR is like 100% less reduction if you cancel the lag, and the start up time of all aerials are minimal, so, this can make up so that the space animals can trylly fit in this gameplay (Dk did somewhat good even he was the only space animal on SSB64)

 

[metaXzero]

@RyuReiatsu

You say it's hurting the game by removing what you see as "improvements". I could say keeping them hurts the game by giving you options you didn't have in original Smash 64 thus making this project less of a Smash 64 2.0 and more of a Smash game taking elements from all 3 games and combining (like Brawl+). And that's NOT the intention of this project.

Side-Bs give you a 4th special. Smash 64 had no 4th specials. If you can remove it to make the game as Smash 64 as possible, why wouldn't you? And no "less interesting" isn't a valid point thanks to opinions.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Well then, this is SSB64 2.0 then, that's not Brawl 64.

*thumbs up*

I'm not gonna argue, you guys have already decided anyways.
*throws away arguments*

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

@RyuReiatsu

You say it's hurting the game by removing what you see as "improvements". I could say keeping them hurts the game by giving you options you didn't have in original Smash 64 thus making this project less of a Smash 64 2.0 and more of a Smash game taking elements from all 3 games and combining (like Brawl+). And that's NOT the intention of this project.

Side-Bs give you a 4th special. Smash 64 had no 4th specials. If you can remove it to make the game as Smash 64 as possible, why wouldn't you? And no "less interesting" isn't a valid point thanks to opinions.

my thoughts exactly.

we got a team here, and I do know, that after the game is done, and videos of PLayer vs PLayers fighting, and having a good time get upload on youtube, people will want to try this up

so, let keep this game going to become "True"

Let's do this as a team!!!

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Well then, this is SSB64 2.0 then, that's not Brawl 64.

*thumbs up*

I'm not gonna argue, you guys have already decided anyways.
*throws away arguments*

you seem to not listen >_>

this is going to be 2 projects prolly

make SSB64 2.0 and then after it's done, implement all the others characters...

SSB 64 2.0 is only for the 12 cast and thats it, Brawl 64, will have more character choices, and maybe some Up B/Down B tweaks or even new ones to make them be able to fit the game physiscs

up to you if you want to argue, we will always try to explain stuff over... and over... and over again until people see that this is not SSB64 2.0, but make it Brawl 64 in the future

 

[King Funk]

Beta v0.02

Again, keep in mind that I'm releasing this build to get critiques on the changes I've made so far. I know what is missing (ie: removing DI, specials, ect.) so I don't want need suggestions on what needs added. Also understand that character balance is skewed beyond belief right now... I have done nothing to any of the characters yet. It will get fixed after the physics and related things are perfected. What I really need feedback on is what I have changed so far. Don't download this expecting Brawl 64, because you will be disappointed. Like I said, this is beta v0.02... saying that Brawl 64 is far from being done is a huge understatement. This beta is for testing purposes only!

Includes:
-SSB64 CSS
-No random tripping
-3/4 power stale system
-Auto jab fix
-Hitstun
-S-cancelling
-No sliding/High friction
-No airdodging
-Lagless water
-No gliding
-Dash dancing
-Shield stun
-No auto sweetspot ledges
-Hitlag modifier
-Framespeed modifier

Sorry, no ALR yet. Will get to it soon.​

This is only for NTSC I suppose?

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Well, removing Side Bs, ain't that SSB64 enough?
Instead of asking for a valid reason for keeping them, we could turn the table around. How about giving a valid reason of removing them? They don't remove any "feel" of Smash 64.

But that's all I'm gonna say, I'm still looking forward to this project, as I'm very interested. I'm not "not listening", I'm just failing to understand your logic.

"Removing Side Bs will make it more authentic", wtf?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

XD, yeah, I will somewhat get lost too, trying to shoot missiles with Samus, trying to use Raptors Boorst (something like that) with C.F or gimp with the cape as mario, I'll sure get lost first, but the game will not be hard to play, you can trust me ^^

the beta's are overall unbalanced, but, Balance will come and 2 true Projects will come to light, and also, samus should get the ZSS transofrmation out, since even if the CSS is the 12 ssb64 cast, you can still transform into her >_>

lol, so PSA could help with this one

 

[WheelOfFish]

Wtf is up with all the freezing?? I'm gonna take down beta v0.02. PLEASE just try beta v0.01. It's a couple of pages back and I'll put it in the first post soon.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Wheel, what method you using to mod the game?

Frame Speed Engine? and what else?

 

[WheelOfFish]

Sorry King Funk. :| Hopefully it'll be ported in the future.

@NAMQ: Well, it's either s-canceling or the frame speed mod that's causing it. I removed those and it works fine... but then it's basically beta v0.01 without l-canceling. I think that I'm going to be messing around with the frame speed mod by itself for a while and then implement it. I had it working at one point which leads me to believe it's s-canceling... maybe I have a code that conflicts with it?

I dunno. If somebody wants to try to make a beta, it'd be more than fine with me. Brawl+ has hitstun set at .48 something I think? I want to say .4865 but I know that's wrong. Just make it above that.

I have more to say about why all the changes are being made (since that seems to be a popular topic) but I have work to do. I'll post about it tonight though.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I'll try to give you one with some HitStun, Shield Stun, and with some frame Speed mod

but, I will not make hitlag growth, since hitlag must be done with psa, Hitlag was only insane with MultiHitbox attacks, so psa will do the job

 

[WheelOfFish]

Okay, sounds awesome. Feel free to post a .gct if you can get it working.

I think it's about time I clear up why Brawl 64 is going through all these seemingly bad changes. The goal of the project is to emulate SSB64. I've said this a million times, and I'm sure those of you that have read my posts are getting pretty annoyed at this point. But by this, I mean the goal is to make Brawl FEEL like SSB64. Air dodges absolutely have to go. SSB64 was lacking defensive options, and by adding air dodges in the air, we make juggling easier to avoid... which would totally change the feel of the game. Adding side-b's gives characters more options (for many characters, more recovery options... recovering was hard in SSB64, it's going to be hard in Brawl 64) than they would have had in SSB64.

If you think that the authenticity argument is weak, you're missing the point of this project. Brawl 64 should feel very nostalgic.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Ness' PKT needs to last a long time, remember to do stuff like replace jigglypuff's rollout with pound, and remove sidestepping.
And nearly everyone has to be slowed down.
And Ness DJC
And Remove sparkles on Ness' Fair.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

ok, I did my gct, can anyone tell me a website to upload it, but one that I don't need to be member to do it, I'm lazy and want no more memberships >.<

but, this is why I did to the game, like it or not, I did this 8 months ago ^^, no changes and stuff to it ^^

What NAMQ did 8 months ago to he's unfinished SBB64 2.0:

- Grab Release Glitch should now be fixed
- Exit Shield x4 faster
- Grabs are now 50% faster
- Yoshi, Samus and Link Grab are now 25% faster
- Ledge game speed up
- Techroll speed up by 23.08%
*** Aerial for all characters Speed up and afterward lag***
>All Characters<
- Aerials start x2 faster
> Mario<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 11.
>DK<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 12.
>Link<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 7.
>Samus<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 9.
>Yoshi<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 9.
>Kirby<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 9.
>Fox<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 4.
>Pikachu<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 7.
>Luigi<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 5.
>C.F.<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 8.
>Ness<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 10.
>Jigglypuff<
- End lag +2.5% after frame 4.
*** Other Attacks Slow/Speed up ***
>Fox<
- Utilt starts x3 slower (3 frames original) and keeps same endlag


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


- Tech Window 25 frames

- 2 frame buffer

- Shield During Dash Dance

- Fast Fall during Tumble

- Auto Jab Fix

- Dash Dancing

- S Canceling

- No Auto Sweetspot Ledge

- No random Trippping

- No Perfect Shield

- No Stale Move

- Triple Jump Glitch

- No Fast Fall on the Cstick

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if you don't believe I did this alot of months ago, see what I use to compare shield hitstun

(Old shield stun*X+Z)/Y=new shield stun
VBrawl = 100% 1/1/1
B+ 3.3 = 204% 10/20/5
testing = 304% 15/20/5 -----> this might be to much or not to much, I don't remember the days where we were having fun with this unfinished project

Hit Stun

Vbrawl hitstun - .4
B+ 3.3 - .485
testing - .55 = 15% more hitstun

if you like to test it, let me know

 

[n88]

@NAMQ

This is kinda minor, but you said Sheik will need a tether fix. Which she won't, because her tether is her Side-Special. Which should be removed, am I right?

Me likey new beta.

 

[WheelOfFish]

o_o That sounds awesome. I want to try it.

http://www.mediafire.com/ You don't have to be signed up.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I didn't want to edit last post, so sorry for double post

hmmm, also I used old codes from the code agenda, almost all of em are like super updated, if it has errors, well the codeset might fail since all codes are very old

but, I can try to upload so some of you can test it

 

[WheelOfFish]

Yeah, I'd still really like to try out your set.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

o_o That sounds awesome. I want to try it.

http://www.mediafire.com/ You don't have to be signed up.

here try it

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=dd1b15484b3b91ff8ef1259ff1b60e81a9d4c6a8fe91ea4d9d4bfef7ef5beeff