Brawl - 6 months in. What does Australia think?

[Zant3tsuken]

So from directors and competitors alike, now that Brawl has been around long enough for people to form opinions, what do people think? The game seems to attract massive amounts of new people to our events, but there is mumblings of folks who aren't getting bored of it already.

Also, I stumbled over the Brawl top 8 thread for Evo 2k8. The tournament organiser comes off as a giant arse for ignoring the community and including items in the tournament, however the responses he receives is still somewhat interesting, probably more from a spectator view than anything else.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162161

I dunno... is Brawl going to go the distance?

 

[ComboTurtle]

i think i speak for all of australia when i say brawl is **** and boring.

 

[Kulla]

Atm I think it fails in stepping up to fill Melee's shoes, and I'm not happy that Brawl is replacing Melee at tournaments like Evo and so on... From what I heard at our most recent Brawl tourney is that Melee still has many supporters, and the next tourney I plan on hosting will be only Melee...I think that will test to see if a Melee only is still viable for a tourney....atleast in Sydney anyway

As for Melee and Brawl existing together...well sure they can, but Brawl will always overshadow Melee, and seeing how its a considerably worse game...its a **** shame.

 

[CAOTIC]

As for Melee and Brawl existing together...well sure they can, but Brawl will always overshadow Melee, and seeing how its a considerably worse game...its a **** shame.

That certainly didn't happen in Rambo or SCAB.

I'm a lot more optimistic than most people in gauging Brawl's future. Whilst most people who crossed over from Melee with vouch how much badder Brawl is compared to Melee, the tons of new people couldn't give a stuff because Brawl is much funner for them. It has an easier learning curve and instant appeal so in the long run the growth is likely to be sustained. Competitively it's going fine, there's now easily a dozen high level players who just circulate ownage amongst each other.

Evo2K8 - items - too good. Smash Ball is the stupidest item though, but those basic ones like bumper, bat, beam sword, fan etc = wub <3

 

[kupo]

i think i speak for all of australia when i say brawl is **** and boring.

This man speaks the truth.

In regards to items...

"HAI GAIZ, LETS NOT USE REAL SKILL!"

oh wait, there isn't much to begin with. LOL!

 

[LemonManX]

In short it goes a little something like this:

Melee > Brawl.

Having said that I don't hold complete disdain towards Brawl, I just think I enjoyed Melee more on both competitive and casual sides. Something seems to be missing from Brawl that I had in Melee.

It's still a bit early to be judging Brawl's competitive fate... but so far I'm not enjoying it as much.

 

[MikulOnIce85]

I have the same feeling. Don't get me wrong, I'm liking brawl (actually trying to use Falcon xD) but the lack of skill needed for several characters feels lame to me, not to mention how overpowered the new guy's recoveries are compared to melee style recovery, peach not included.

It's fun, but no melee.

 

[Yokai]

To Violence against brawl tournies. Australia says: Probably yes.

Brawl is a party game, Melee is a fighter. Or at least, thats my 2c and most of QLDs probable response.

 

[Jei Jei]

I think the problem is that everyone is comparing the two games way too harshly. They are both very different games but you will find people making their own 'what's-good-what's-bad' lists in every category of the two possible, ultimately being disappointed because brawl will remain the victor.

My argument isn't that brawl is better than melee because it's not. Not even close. It's just the simple fact that brawl is the game everyone is playing now, not melee.
To be blunt though, does anyone else realize that the people that hate brawl so, so much are mostly the people who kicked a$s in melee and aren't doing so well in it's predecessor? Like it's not the game they hate but instead the fact that the people they usually had no problem with can now fight on an even playing field (me for example).

Does "How could I lose to that noob?" sound familiar?

I have alot more opinion to post but I seriously cbf talking about a 6 month+ issue knowing that those people will never listen anyway.
Just one more thing though, really, no one was any good at melee 6 months after it's release. Be a bit more realistic.

 

[CAOTIC]

Melee is boring because I dominated in Australia for a long time, only really screwing up once in COK (can't win them all ), but otherwise I pretty much topped out everywhere I went from 07' onwards. Brawl suits me for the time being because I use fairer characters now and I am lucky that the characters I've chosen have alot of depth to deal with some really good characters (that being Peach again). And every win I make feels like I earnt it, unlike in Melee where Peach could just go on autopilot and press a lot of buttons without thinking and **** - sounds like Metaknight doesn't it?

Saying Brawl has no skill would be an insult to those who are good at it, so that's not very cool.

 

[Yokai]

I sucked in melee (was ok, but never good) Im alright in brawl.

Caotic has an ego that hes earnt, which must be frustrating to the whole of aus.

I prefer brawl in actuality. If only for the superior character selection (im not versing peach and marth 99% of the time) and only chris has really ***** me hard with MK, and even then I can occasionally push him on the last stock.

Also, Brawl OST is gorgeous, melee wishes it had tunes like that.

The main gripe everyone has is you cant become extremely techy or pro by practicing in training mode. No more wave dashing, tripping killed dash dancing and the overall downgrade in speed means any scrub can get lucky. Thats the appeal with tournies.

Brawl has effectively castrated the federers of Melee. If that makes any sense.

 

[kupo]

I think the problem is that everyone is comparing the two games way too harshly. They are both very different games but you will find people making their own 'what's-good-what's-bad' lists in every category of the two possible, ultimately being disappointed because brawl will remain the victor

There will ALWAYS be comparisons to a game. Melee to Brawl, SC2 to SC4 and so on. How many Melee vets in U.S say how Brawl killed Melee in every aspect? Like you said, Brawl will dominate in the end because of the new people that join the scene which in the good run will make the scene bigger and enjoyable..where as Melee vets will either take a step back or play competitively to keep their status top.

To be blunt though, does anyone else realize that the people that hate brawl so, so much are mostly the people who kicked a$s in melee and aren't doing so well in it's predecessor?

See it from a Melee player perspective.

A majority of the brawl people wont touch Melee? Or even consider the idea of having Melee in a monthly? [see the poll] Oh right, it's too hard to learn and people wont just attend to just have fun cos they know they'll lose. It's one of the reasons i dont enjoy the brawl scene anymore and just lost the interest in competitive play. Heck, I'd rather go hardcore at Team Fortress 2 or back to WoW arena.

Does "How could I lose to that noob?" sound familiar?

I could do the same moves over and over and win with cheap characters. Fun stuff. Another reason I dislike brawl. I've had my moments in Melee when I dominated the scene and had been beaten by people that havent played the game much. Another example where if people have potential in Melee, theres a chance of a comeback. I dont see that happening in brawl at all.

Just one more thing though, really, no one was any good at melee 6 months prior to it's release. Be a bit more realistic

lol Japan.

 

[Throwback]

i think i speak for all of australia when i say brawl is **** and boring.

You don't speak for me. I prefer Brawl, and I know a lot of other people who feel the same.

To me Brawl is less about uber technical skill and more about knowing your character, matchups and being great at mindgames. Fall speed is slower but attacks seem to have less lag. I love it! Can't wait to get to some tourneys.

Also Brawl hasn't been out for 6 months in Australia (unless you got a modded US copy).

 

[CAOTIC]

Japan sucks I ***** Masashi

anyway, they are so ****ing good at Brawl I literally can't touch some of them. I do about 3% damage on Masashi's Pit. and then there's others who pwn me with link. LINK. AK's Pikachu/Robot/POKEMON TRAINER would **** on any player on this forsaken continent, which goes to show there's a lot of ways to demonstrate skill in Brawl if you're just that good.

oh yeah and one of japan's best brawlers is a mario. no skill my a$$ - sure the MK/snake hax bs makes for stiff competition, but we're just not developed enough yet to realise the extent of the game's potential

my aim is eventually to win something with peach woxy's fluffier in teams since he wykes helping other cuteds out

 

[Jei Jei]

To Em's reply: I apologize, I fail at multiquoting, so I'll try to make this work.

Seeing it from a melee player perspective, I have. It's true what you said about brawl players not wanting to touch melee but it goes both ways evidently. Either way, arguing this point is pointless because brawl will win. As for learning, although melee is a hell of alot more fun than brawl is, it's only fun for the people who have already learnt, picking up AT's at this point in time is a big waste of brawl-practice time.

As for spammers with cheap characters, nothing can be done there except see it as a challenge to overcome the spam. If you are good enough at the game then a bit (or alot) of spam shouldn't be too much of a problem. Once again, my point isn't that brawl is in any way better than melee. Melee will most likely always be the better smash game, but it's time to accept what's in store for future smash tournaments and play brawl to stay in the scene. If not, then take CAO's advice and run your own melee tournaments if you can't let the game go.

Finally, we aren't Japan. But from what I have heard, it seems Japan has happily made the switch to brawl. If not, then it seems that they have at least accepted brawl to be the new game to play.

 

[CAOTIC]

They live off brawl in-between their 70 hours work a week and convenience-store-ramen runs <3

 

[Dekar289]

there's this character called metaknight

it's like unbeatable

game broken

k so obviously not because of this japan link, mario and snakes in us and w/e
but the fact is that's the way it is in the aus scene, metaknight is tooo good

we all suck

unless somebody gets super good with some character other than meta.... then meta will just continue to dominate

but who can be bothered getting better? kgo =(

 

[CAOTIC]

cobalts snake drew in sets with chris metaknight yesterday, you forgot the other cheap character

also, mk hasnt dominated our scene it won yesterdays monthly, but it wasn't easy, so i think it's not doom and gloom like some may think

i can be bothered - the barrier doesnt seem prohibitively high

 

[Kulla]

Jei...I was decent at Melee, but am good at brawl and still dislike the game...it just bores and frustrates me, its slower, less skillful then games I'm used to playing, feels like its an ordeal to kill your opponent. To say that Brawl is the future of competitive Smash makes me want to quit right now... I mean sure, it plays alright, but like I said, its not the level Melee was at, and I'm starting to question my reasons for playing it if I'm not enjoying it...

I dont dominate like Cao at Melee, but I win most all the matches I play so should I be playing to win money? Doesn't seem very fun to me... The main thing holding me in is the community that I've grown to love over the past year and a half...But to be honest, if I can be part of that community and not have to play Brawl... I'll be much happier...

Everytime I play Melee, I smile or think "that was awesome" atleast once a game... Brawl does not do that for me. So I'll try and run Melee tourneys...Hopefully the rest of the Sydney community wont let me down.

But yeah...I'd rather be getting owned at Melee, then be good at Brawl...

 

[CAOTIC]

Why don't we just create a national circuit for Melee like what's been done for Brawl with GG? Collectively, there'd be a lot of support for it and will give the people a reason to improve again. It will also make the Melee scene stronger and it would not have to exist in Brawl's shadow

All we need is a little vision and collaboration

If peple want Melee THIS much then we should do something about this RIGHT NOW.

saving melee, lol

 

[SS Ben]

Why don't we just create a national circuit for Melee like what's been done for Brawl with GG? Collectively, there'd be a lot of support for it and will give the people a reason to improve again. It will also make the Melee scene stronger and it would not have to exist in Brawl's shadow

All we need is a little vision and collaboration

If peple want Melee THIS much then we should do something about this RIGHT NOW.

saving melee, lol

See, this statement is full of win. I'm sure there'd be heaps of support for Melee and hopefully some of the Brawl newcomers would get into it as well.

 

[Jei Jei]

Kulla I considered you when I posted, which is why I said 'most' people.
There are heaps of melee players who are good/great at brawl and still dislike it, it was just a generalization.
I still cbf arguing this because in the end, it's a pointless discussion.

PS. Don't quit kulla I've lost all of my Melbourne friends going to Qld, don't make me the only out of stater aswell. lol

 

[Redact]

brawl makes me sad

 

[Dekar289]

everyone in melb is jei's friend

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Brawl is fun...in a way. I love the way certain characters play such as yoshi and mario.
Melee is still my choice but I wouldn't want Brawl to be in a corner just like we're doing to Melee right now.
So how about we revive Melee without sending Brawl into hibernation mode?\

Edit: Mew2king said that Melee is better so everyone has to listen to him kthnx.

 

[Shaya]

He said that quite a while ago. I would presume the opinion hasn't changed. However it probably isn't as critical as before.

Australia needs some brawl pro from the US to come over and permanently live here and see the region-dependant metagame improvements (ala CAO :D).

 

[Mic_128]

I played Melee for seven years. I'm honestly sick of it. Brawl is new, and despite the lack of things such as Wavedashing, there's still good techniques, and Brawl isn't just combo combo combo dead, you actually need to think and adapt more as you play than just have muscle memory of how to Ken Combo across FD.

Plus no ****ing Fox and his reflector of "Screw you Falco"

Also, can we have less of the "Brawl sucks lol", that's Brawl disc behaviour.

EDIT: Almost forgot the main reason, Perth's Smash scene has bloomed since Brawl, whereas Melee it was basically Me, Bringer, Cubed, Quetz, Kenton, Bryce and Niven.

A Melee circut would fail majorly in any state outside the Eastern States.

 

[-=3ddy=-]

i think i speak for all of australia when i say brawl is **** and boring.

Turtle, you are my hero.

Also, I attended BOOST yesterday, it really opened my eyes to see how much I dislike brawl, in brawl noobs can get away with stupid and pointless spam. Whereas in melee a descent-good player will be able to crush noobs. There is skill in brawl, but it is soo different to melee.

My first post, w00t.

 

[CAOTIC]

Brawl is fun...in a way. I love the way certain characters play such as yoshi and mario.
Melee is still my choice but I wouldn't want Brawl to be in a corner just like we're doing to Melee right now.
So how about we revive Melee without sending Brawl into hibernation mode?\

Edit: Mew2king said that Melee is better so everyone has to listen to him kthnx.

Man I want Melee back. If anyone can think of a solution that would work in the monthlies, then I will hug you

eddy - Brawl noobs getting away with spam? tut tut

 

[-=3ddy=-]

Ok, I am not saying that I am good at brawl or anything, it's just during swiss at BOOST i came up against an average player that i should have beaten, now I am not great or anything, but I couldn't really find a way to really crush him, or even get a descent lead. I have found that in melee the best player with always/most of the time beat the worse player. Now i am not saying that the guy i vs'ed during swiss was really bad, he just made a ton of mistakes. I know that i was better than him but couldn't really take control of the match. I still like brawl, but melee is just more balance and fun.

 

[Vyse]

I present this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187084

I have to agree with Cao. I love Melee to death, but Brawl is what is boosting the 'Smash' scene in Australia. In the interest of creating stronger tournament scene for my state, I'll continue to stand by Brawl which is:

- A new Game
- On a popular console
- Gives us online play = People looking for friend codes = More Aussies joining smashboards, and thus finding us.

All the ingredients of establishing stronger tourney scenes nation wide.

As opposed to Melee which is:

- 7 years old
- On a console that didn't sell well, and went by largely unnoticed in the shadow of the PS2 and X-box
- Is now no longer the latest game in the series.

 

[Atticus]

I tried to like Brawl. I really, really did. But it's been apparant to me from the outset that this game was developed in a way to make it as uncompetitive as possible, and Sakurai has stated as much that this was actually his intention. He was incredibly successful on this point. There's no doubt Brawl has been fantastic in boosting the Smash scene, but a small problem remains in that the game is completely ****ing boring to play on a serious level compared to Melee or even 64. This is of course just my opinion, but I'm obviously not the only one who feels this way.

I never lost interest in Melee but there's no motivation to play it and prac up when all the hype and tournaments are around Brawl, so I've pretty much stopped playing Smash these days except at Couch Warriors. Count me in if we're bringing it back. :3

 

[Dekar289]

I tried to like Brawl. I really, really did. But it's been apparant to me from the outset that this game was developed in a way to make it as uncompetitive as possible, and Sakurai has stated as much that this was actually his intention. He was incredibly successful on this point. There's no doubt Brawl has been fantastic in boosting the Smash scene, but a small problem remains in that the game is completely ****ing boring to play on a serious level compared to Melee or even 64. This is of course just my opinion, but I'm obviously not the only one who feels this way.

I never lost interest in Melee but there's no motivation to play it and prac up when all the hype and tournaments are around Brawl, so I've pretty much stopped playing Smash these days except at Couch Warriors. Count me in if we're bringing it back. :3

yes yes yes

 

[Dedu]

Yeah imagine Pika Dsmash spam into thunder/nair rinse and repeat *sigh*

He's the new Peach of Brawl, nothwithstanding CPU's main.

hmmm

*edit* Vyse is right. I don't do tl;drs... and I agree with what you said there. +rep

 

[Shaya]

And amidst many people going "UGHH" over this (continuing on from Vyse):
Melee isn't getting any new players. And I doubt it will.

Many melee-ers here are saying "Melee tournament, let's hope it goes well". Well, all those new faces popping up for Brawl are less likely to pop up for Melee. And the fact that the whole community (hell, I don't see people who like Brawl almost trolling about how much Melee 'sucks' in every one of there posts, so let's say a SECTOR of the community) is giving us as a whole a bad face for any new players in general. All the Brawl hate does not promote having a welcoming community for new players.

The whole Melee vs Brawl topics in the Aussie Section is getting really boring. Brawl is going strong, and it's the melee that isn't. If melee was still going strong I don't think Brawl players would be complaining at every opportunity, as BRAWL would still be popular enough. It's 'your' own perogative to support Melee. I as a Brawl 'liker' have nothing against it. Yet the vindictation of Brawl by melee veterans is probably holding us as a NATIONAL COMMUNITY back from growing faster.

 

[Amaterasu]

I also want to throw my support alongside Shaya for this issue, I enjoy both brawl and melee even though I totally suck at the latter.(I will join the melee scene even though I came in as a Brawl player) However, I am sick of melee players bashing Brawl day and night, if you don't like it- fine, either keep it to yourself, or just let it be known instead of chirping constantly that you hate this or that about it.

Even if it is true, you have to remember that the 'Brawl players' are not your enemies, but are still part of the collective smash scene, and that this constant attack on Brawl is counterproductive to the growth of the smash scene, in regards to either melee or brawl. That's my 2 c.

 

[SS Ben]

It's not that Brawl is really that bad, it's just that Brawl is bad when compared to Melee.

And no one has really tried a Melee only tourney yet (to my knowledge) so the turnout may not be that bad. Are there any Brawl players that downright wouldn't attend a Melee tourney or Melee section of a tourney?

Yesterday myself and a few others went to a Brawl tournament even though we're primarily Melee players with very little experience playing Brawl. We had fun (well at least some of us did) and my respect for SSBB grew as well. I'd hope that the Brawlers would give Melee tournaments a try as they may find they like it more than they though.

After all - it's Melee. Who couldn't love it?

 

[Yokai]

This **** is better than Home and away.


Aussie drama over a dead game. All melee pro people sound like old war vets "Back in my day I could wave dash from one side of the stage to the other young whipper snapper!".

As much as I like melee, It comes second to brawl now. If you dont enjoy brawl, but enjoy the people I dont mind, but hell, you cant bash someone for likeing something.

 

[Zant3tsuken]

Sorry if it some people might be a bit annoyed about starting a ruckus. I was really excited about Brawl and the new people that it would bring into the scene. I also hoped that it would be 'not Melee' but competitive... there is a lot of evidence here to the contrary, however it's not unanimous which is something at least.

What I'm thinking, is that it's possible in time that once the hardcore Brawl community solidifies , and the 'oooooh shiny new game' people wander off, if it's plausible that some new guys might even convert to Melee. I hate to see the Smash community go through what the international SC one did, when 3 came out, it sucked and everyone abandoned it. Nevertheless, if what Cao's saying about Japanese players overcoming tiers is true, then in time I'm confident that Melee and Brawl will probably end up having their own crowds, and thats probably the best outcome.

 

[kewl_niven]

My preference is Melee >>> Brawl

A lot of things that made Melee so great were removed or modified in Brawl. Don't get me wrong, Brawl is at least a solid/great game in it's own right. It has many nice additions such as stage builder, online (terrible, but it exists) and more characters/items/stages etc. But a lot of changes go against the flow of what made Melee such a competitive game. Making the game appeal to more people is great for the competitive scene, but I feel they went too far with making it user friendly. Barrier in HRC? LOL. Sticky edges? Lazy sweet spotting. Playing Brawl feels like it is a third party scrub in every match, telling you to not use certain moves, techniques or tactics that would have otherwise given you an advantage. People say that Brawl relies on mindgames much more than Melee does. I agree with this to an extent, but the amount of options you can base your mindgames on is much lower.

I would love to see Melee played competitively as a separate game from Brawl, but the scene won't grow as everyone will just play Brawl since there is a larger scene.

Just a note: this is based on what has been discovered so far. I'm sure gameplay will evolve as new techniques are revealed, thus my opinion could change in the future.

P.S. RANDOM TRIPPING CAN GO D.I.A.F.